Chrysler won't repay bailout money

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
I agree that the government was trying to take control over major companies, but, I don't think you can call it redistribution of wealth. Redistribution of wealth would entail actually giving something back to the little people. I didn't get my shares of these companies in the mail.

No, redistribution of wealth in this case means it gets taken away from the general population and distributed among the elite. It's a breaking away of, what we call, the middle class.

So, sorry, but you won't find a check in your mailbox.




[edit on 6-5-2009 by thegreatobserver]

Someone is laughing all the way to the bank - then exchanging dollars for gold - then laughing all the way to their off shore house where you'll never find them.

Good job, America, good freaking job again.

Hey we didn't want them to bail the auto makers out. The government of the people for the people by the people, decided on its own that it would. Isn't that such a contradiction. Isn't it funny that a govenment that is supposed to be held to that standard doesn't follow it?

You should reffer to it as the American Government not just america.

I hope you all realize that this is the whole point of the Tea Party movement, Congress etc. DO NOT represent the interests of the American people.

The bought and paid for corporate mainstream media are nothing more than another lobbying group for the NWO. The only difference is that the mainstream media lobbies the public instead of the legislature, and any media or person that dares to present other information is attacked.

The funny thing is that the majority of people who do the attacking generally fancy themselves as free thinkers when in fact they take their marching orders from the media elite without even realizing it. You will see them attacking Fox News or anyone with an opinion different than MSNBC... Free thinkers? More like uneducated hypnotized zombies.


[edit on 6-5-2009 by SaraThustra]

What is the chance that this was the plan all along and for giving some control to the govt. in this case the govt. may have promised to let that particular loan slide?

Just my conspiracy side flopping out again lol

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
The same will happen with the billions to GM, the $300B debt guarantee to Citybank, the $170B 'loan' to AIG, and the hundreds of billions to all the other banks. Paulson knew right from the start that we would never get our money back because the whole thing has been a huge ponzi scheme for years. These companies NEVER made enough real profits to pay back that kind of debt, it was always accounting tricks and debt disguised as equity on their books. If you sold off every asset down to the pencils and post-it notes, some of the banks would still have several $TRILLION in liabilities.

That's why the huge bonuses get handed out every year, these companies only exist so the directors and upper management can loot the cash drawer. It was a scam and Paulson and Bernanke knew it because they're at the very top of it.

it gets worse and worse and worse, and its like they are robbing us, and were willingly letting them pilfer our futures.... wait...

Originally posted by SaraThustra
I hope you all realize that this is the whole point of the Tea Party movement, Congress etc. DO NOT represent the interests of the American people.

Tea parties are a good idea, as based on the original tea parties.

They don't get noticed they way they should, though. People ought to not pay taxes, get the money in cash and burn it at the tea parties.

Big corporations wouldn't receive the money, and we wouldn't be out anything more than what we are anyway.

What a joke, if anything, instead of these stimulus tax rebates, we should all be getting a certificate for a new car from these bailed out automakers.

Free cars anyone, to stimulate the economy?

i just wanted to state that as of the day before the bankruptcy,. the UAW owns 55% of Chrysler LLC.

and in that BS contract that was passed, the Union workers gave up about 20% of their wages/benefits.

now let me remind you that the work force for running Chrysler LLC, only made up 7% of the cost of production. now under the new contract it is more like 5% of the cost to run the company. so that means after all the consestions forced upon the labor force, the company will STILL be in the same place as it was.

also, as a reminder, the bank bailouts exceeded 1.3 TRILLION dollars, and can not even state where that money has gone.

i'm sorry but i really believe they have succeeded in what hey sent out to do, divide and conquer.

the real "bad-guy" is STILL the Federal reserve. if they were cut out of the equation we would not be in this mess at all.

[edit on 5/6/2009 by keeff]

www.save-a-patriot.org...

Go to the link above and you will see that David Rockefeller not only owns and runs Chrysler but also GM and most of the other bailed out companies. This is a scam, they/he print worhtless paper for about 4 cents a copy and "trade" it to OUR government at face value for T-bills which you and I can not buy or hold. Pretty good scam huh?

So we have to pay that back to them WITH interest. THAT is where the INCOME TAX goes and no where else. You see, about 100 million AMERICANS like me, no longer pay income tax. We figured out the scam years ago and filed paperwork to exempt ourselves from the fraud. They are panic stricken now and are doing everything they can to tear our country apart and destroy us common folk. Because we know what they are up to.

A good book to read is; Good-bye April 15th, if you can find a copy.

www.barefootsworld.net...

This website is loaded with useful information about everything in Government and Law. I suggest everyone check it out. It does have some religious stuff on it but for the most part is extremely accurate as to the Common Law and what has been done to our country and to us. Read and study, learn and educate yo-self.

Lobbyists are the scum of the earth. The original 13th amendment would not allow them to exist, thanks to good ole lying SOB Abe Lincoln, the 13th amendment was changed after the war between the states. To long to explain here.

Needless to say, the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Warburgs, Kuhn-Loebs, Goldman-Sachs and the other families are the ones behind all the grief in this world. I would love to see them strung up in the nearest tree, the whole lot of them deserve it.

What I don't understand is why are the American People allowing this to happen. In Europe, there are violent protests, but here, we just go to work and go home. We are getting raped by the government, and we ask for more.

All the politicians are greedy pigs (maybe their reproductive process spawned the swine flu ) and we just go and vote for who ever CNN or Fox tells us to.

We live in a one party dictatorship. Bush left and Obama picked up where he left off. They do things in the media to make it look like they are different (e.g. pretend to close Gitmo, release torture memo's) but when it comes to the money, its the same ol' same ol'.

Americans have become sheep. This is why they don't need FEMA camps, the whole country is one big FEMA camp bought and paid for by the prisoners.

Wait what, they got bailed out then went bakrupt anywyay?

Originally posted by AR154
Wait what, they got bailed out then went bakrupt anywyay?

I know its funny in a way isn't it? I thought that if they went under so did america. Anyways how did they go under if they got the money that made them stay afloat?

Get the money = fail
don't get the money = fail

Hmm when you are going to fail anyways why not save some money at it. I wish the government thought that way.

I heard they tried to go through the proper channels of bankruptcy but the Obama administration twisted their arm with threats so they could take over 52% of the company which means they call the shots now. Where do you think that money is going, the Obama administration didn't step in to help Chrysler, they stepped in to help the Union and the Union employees because they love the socialistic Union, that is where the money will go and probably to accorn, they seem to always get a peice of the pie.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by SaraThustra
I hope you all realize that this is the whole point of the Tea Party movement, Congress etc. DO NOT represent the interests of the American people.

Tea parties are a good idea, as based on the original tea parties.

They don't get noticed they way they should, though. People ought to not pay taxes, get the money in cash and burn it at the tea parties.

Big corporations wouldn't receive the money, and we wouldn't be out anything more than what we are anyway.

What a joke, if anything, instead of these stimulus tax rebates, we should all be getting a certificate for a new car from these bailed out automakers.

Free cars anyone, to stimulate the economy?

Hold on to your skirts everyone, we now have AUTO OBAMA.......yes, you to can receive a voucher of $4500.00 for your clunker.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the Government own a stake in auto factories.

reply to post by tiso_us



Oh yeah, I forgot about that.....have you gone out and priced a new vehicle lately?

My fiance just bought a used vehicle. A 1996 Ford f250 deisel. He needs it for work as it has to be used to tow heavy things on a trailer. It was $5,000.00. The cost of a new one would have been like taking on a 2nd mortgage!

His neice just bought a brand new Nissan Altima. I was afraid to ask how many years she is suckered into paying for this thing, but her montly payments are over $600.00.

$4500.00 vouchers! It would be interesting to know how many people are going to or who have taken advantage of that!

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


The UAW didn't get any of this money. The UAW are the workers and have no say as to how these funds are used or allocated.

If the government would have heeded some of the UAW's advice and not pushed NAFTA and other BS type laws through. Then the auto industry wouldn't be in as bad of shape that they are now.

Oh the good old Dodge Brothers would be so delighted if alive today. They always knew crime would pay!

What you know as Chrysler LLC began back in 1900 at the time other American Illuminati luminaries were making their bones. John and Horace Dodge were Detroit rough and ready thugs, always looking for a way to make a buck and quick with their fists, who like most adventure and action seekers of the day wasted no time falling in love with the horseless carriage.

Fond of racing horses and cars, booze, wine, women and song, they began making precision engines and chassis in 1900 and their first main customers were the Olds Motor Vehicle Company and the brand new Ford Motor Company.

In 1913 John Dodge exclaimed he was “Tired of being carried around in Henry Ford’s vest pocket” and in 1914 he and Horace introduced the Dodge Model 30. It pioneered and made standard the all steel unibody construction that soon would be featured in cars the world over right up today. Likewise they introduced the 12 volt electrical system that all cars use today. As the new company quickly gained a reputation for quality and innovation Henry Ford decided to stop paying dividends on Ford Stock, which to give you an idea how far the rough and ready Dodge Brothers had traveled there annual dividend share of their stock in Ford was worth 1,000,000.00 dollars annually. A staggering sum in 1916, Ford ended up buying out all his shareholders to keep from having to continue paying the Dodge Brothers in perpetuity for their amassed stock and eventually settled with the Dodges for 25,000,000.00 dollars. Not bad at all for a couple of local street toughs.

That same year the Dodge Model 30 touring cars went to war with the U.S. Army in the Pancho Villa Expedition into Mexico. In one of the Dodge Model 30’s most colorful Mexican war exploits Lt. George S. Patton led ten soldiers and two civilians in 3 Model 30’s to conduct a raid at a ranch house in San Miguelito, Sonora, killing three of Pancho Villa’s most trusted subordinates and then strapping their corpses to the hoods of the Dodge’s and driving up to their Headquarters in Dublan where a horde of excited Newspaper men snapped photos soon to be splashed across Newspapers everywhere.

In 1920 Dodge Cars ranked second place in American sales when John Dodge suddenly died of pneumonia and his hard drinking brother Horace died of cirrhosis before the years end heartbroken at the loss of his beloved brother and partner in business and crime.

The American Automobile Business has a fascinating rich and unique history of many such characters who built and innovated and poured their blood, sweat, tears and every penny they could save, beg, borrow, or steal into them, as America developed it’s love affair with the automobile, that made Americans one of the most mobile and independent citizens of any nation on earth.

During World War I, it was Henry Ford who developed the first Tanks, and whether you were fighting for the Germans, English, Turks, Russians, French, or Austrians you probably got to your battlefield in an American Vehicle.

Max and Morris Grabowski owners of the Grabowski Motor Car Company better known today as GMC Trucks a General Motors Division made the Blitz truck in the 1930’s that literally put the Blitz in Hitler’s Blitzkrieg, it was the Blitz that made Hitler’s revolutionary all mechanized army lightning fast, and America was king when it came to making vehicles that were envied the world over.

Most of Castro’s Cuba still gets around in 1950 model Chevrolets and Cadillacs with custom tooled spare parts because even right up to it’s collapse the Soviet Trabat was just no replacement for a good old American Car.

Some how Detroit didn’t see the Oil crisis coming, when the first Arab Oil embargo hit America as a result of Israeli politics, and build for comfort and owning the road and cheap gas which was around 20 cents a gallon at the start of the Embargo and pushing 1.00 a gallon by the end of it, many working Americans could no longer easily afford their rolling estates on wheels and soon another couple of brothers with a shady past from the rough and tumble neighborhoods and streets of Chicago would turn the luck of being stationed in the U.S. Army in post war occupied Japan into Gold.

The Moran Brothers Art and Jim and their friend Rick Hendricks had fallen in love with their little Toyotas while tooling around the Japanese mainland, so much so that as the Toyota company rebuilt its bombed and shattered manufacturing with the help of American money, and American Car Luminaries sent to Japan to aide in it’s reconstruction, they had talked Toyota into signing an exclusive distributorship of Toyotas in America, that would for ever cause any Toyota being imported into America to pass through Jim and Art Moran's and Rick Hendrick's hands first.

The small efficient compact car Toyota built for Tokyo’s narrow streets and much higher gasoline prices lacked the sex appeal, room and comfort of the much larger and more powerful and better appointed American cars and weren’t an easy sell in those early days.

When gas reached around 1.00 a gallon all of a sudden thrifty Americans and those on a budget began to take notice of Toyota and Honda which had also likewise signed exclusive distributorships and only had but one store and showroom at the time in Southern California. Soon Americans were clamoring for Toyotas and Hondas to make increasingly painful trips to the gas pumps pleasurable again.

Toyota and Honda weren't quite prepared for the explosion of the market for their cars and the lack of variety in the solid little, boxy metal, lightly powered inline 4 cylinder engines they were powered by (another Dodge brother innovation) but Japan in the middle of a post economic boom had cheap money to lend to Japanese corporations at just 2% interest, money was no problem further developing the compact car concept and getting it manufactured and shipped.

The Morans and Rick Hendricks soon split America up into little fiefdoms that each would rule. Jim Moran founder of JM Automotive not only is the South East Toyota Distributor but markets a huge array of insurance and warranty and service products to a wide variety of Dealer Franchises that sell everything from Chryslers to Pontiacs to BMW’s in their Showrooms. JM Automotive is in many ways the backbone of retail auto sales today, training Dealership Finance Managers to spin and close the financing contracts and insurance and warranty products and close the sales, providing the computers, programs, forms and most of the logistics that make today’s car business function.

Slow to respond to the Japanese inroads in their markets brought on by the oil crisis, and then with a combination of hastily and often poorly designed and manufactured smaller cars it would take American manufactures the better part of two decades to retool and rethink their own love affair with the muscle, sports, luxury and full sized sedans it had become famed the world over for. Starting in the midst of the Carter's Administration recession where unlike Japanese companies that could borrow at 2% American companies might have to pay as high as 18% to borrow capital, the retooling of American Car Manufacturing would be slow, painful and costly at a time when consumers too were looking at upwards of 18% interest to finance the increasingly higher priced cars featuring new more fuel efficient engines and lighter composite metal bodies to reduce weight and save gas.

Meanwhile a fickle American public had moved on and all but divorced the American Manufacturers, some would cling to their Buicks and Olds Mobiles come what may while others had to have their Trans Ams and Corvettes, but by then a new generation of younger Americans and Latin Immigrants had grown and come into a world where Toyota was King and Honda was Prince, and American Cars were the red headed ugly step child. By the early 90’s Detroit was building some truly superb cars again, give or take a flop here or there. In one of the world’s most competitive businesses some might think that’s bound to happen unless you are the one who bought one. The perception would never be overcome in the minds of many consumers no matter what kind of reviews or which neighbor bought one, American Cars had become toxic in the mind of the majority of Americans who to this day won’t stop by a showroom to test drive one, let alone research its specifications or repair history.

Happy to shun it’s own biggest manufacturing products, and to vilify the union workers who clung to a Union Wage while Wal-Mart and the other big corporations led the charge to export other lucrative manufacturing to break the Labor Unions and lower and stagnate wages, the typically selfish and often too clever for his own good American sealed their own fate in the march to the New World Order and their new found love with cheap Corporate Outlet prices and imported products.

America sold and abandoned and then killed itself, buying, consuming with out thought or care for the long term cost of the great deal they were getting today.

What a deal!

John and Horace might have gotten us one last time, but Americans seem almost determined to do themselves in with their blind support for a corrupt two party system, their fear of loosing their slave wages from the huge corporate conglomerates that make staggering profits off of their labors and purchases, and the easy Credit that turned most of the nation into modern day indentured servants.

We grieve, but we grieve for the wrong things, for the wrong reasons.

Sorry John, sorry Horace, but hey you knew most of us weren’t too bright all along right?


[edit on 6/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Why are you guys surprised? How the hell is a bankrupt company supposed to magically come up with several billion dollars?

They should not have been paid anything in the first place.

My biggest question is: If Chrysler get away with this, then how long before GM does the same thing, then after that how many Financial institutions that accepted bailout money will try this stunt?

There goes all the billions in balilout money and we're left holding the bag with nothing to show for it but more taxes.

Originally posted by dashen
Oh come on! every time I bring up righteous vengeance and tarring and feathering someone has to mess it all up. Well, wen we get to the bottom of who got what and how, then tar and feathers?

screw tar and feather. tar and tacs!