China military build-up seems U.S.-focused: Mullen

Originally posted by rogue1

Who invented paper, gunpowder, rockets ?

Not to be too picky but the paper was actually invented by the Egyptians who made it from papyrus reeds. The name paper itself comes from the word Papyrus. The Egyptians were already using papyrus sheets to write 1,500 years before the Chinese invented the more modern form of paper.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by rogue1

Who invented paper, gunpowder, rockets ?

Not to be too picky but the paper was actually invented by the Egyptians who made it from papyrus reeds. The name paper itself comes from the word Papyrus. The Egyptians were already using papyrus sheets to write 1,500 years before the Chinese invented the more modern form of paper.

True I should have said modern paper, but many archeologists believe the Chinese were using paper long before they are credited to have started in the 2nd centry BCE.

Even though the name paper comes from papyrus it is not considered paper.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by rogue1]

Originally posted by msnevil
China Vrs the US, Um what happened to the other countries?

You know, like the ones that fought China recently like Vietnam, Russia, India, Taiwan, S Korea?

China has a vast amount of troops on the borders with India, Taiwan, Russia, and Vietnam. And those countries also have a military presence on their borders as well. Btw- Taiwan and Vietnam still have small border clashes with China to this day. Taiwan has the US supporting it, and Russia supports Vietnam.

Yes there are other countries, but they are not considered the biggest threat.

BTW. When was the last time Taiwan had a border clash ? or for that matter Vietnam after 1978. Those borders are peaceful. I certainly know Taiwan has had no problems with China in the last 20 years. In fact realtions are better than ever.

I have been across teh border from China into Vietnams Red River Valley area and didn't see any heavy military presence. In fact alot of trade comes across that border between the two countries.

Why would China need to fight the US? When it owns the US economically. Thanks to the US politicians and apathetic US citizens!

It doesn't. they need a buildup to better counter teh US interests in Asia. China has a long history of invasion, they want to be strong enough that it doesn't happen again - whihc means being the biggest kid on the block.

Originally posted by pcgeek

I think since they have loaned us all of this money in the US is a big set up and we took it hook line and sinker.

Lets hope we are wrong

The simple reason they buy your debt is to keep the dollar high relative to the Yuan so that the US can continue to buy goods from China. The EU has a bigger trade deficit with China BTW.

Also China just can't yank the money out, they would lose their trillion dollar investment and the US would refuse to pay in any event. China would be hurt just as much as the US maybe more considering they are moving 300 million people into cities in the next 20 years. Thise people need jobs, wrecking the world economy isn't going to achieve that and would lead to hundreds of millions of Chinese angry at their government and in a worst case a fracturing of China.

Originally posted by xoxo stacie
Let them show up! we can just snort like pigs, sneeze their way and watch them run !!!!

But seriously they have been building up for sometime it isn't just something that happens overnight people. We have known about it for over 12 years now.

Haha that is funny! Yeah we should all get pet pigs now that would keep the Chinese from ever coming near us, they are scared to death of our pigs now.

Originally posted by msnevil

Originally posted by mattifikation

Whatever happened to "Speak softly but carry a big stick?"

That doesn't feed the children, support the jobless, nor provide social security. It doesn't pay for the National Endowment of the Arts, doesn't provide national health care nor provide climate control. It doesn't provide abortions on demand, gay marriages nor affirmative action.

Why worry about National security, when there are other "Bigger" problems to deal with. Like those mentioned above.

A little confused.....was that tongue in cheek?

Pretty much everything you mentioned were programs of redistributing wealth, rewarding the under privileged to stay that way, and maintaining the status quo, while grabbing power at the top. All those things play into the NWO hands, pacify the Liberals, and eliminate the middle class.

I am not saying any of those are bad programs or ideas, but they seem pretty worthless without National Security, or under the dominion of a World Government. They only work with a strong middle working class, or in a communist/socialist society. Karl Marx said the worst possible economy was capitalism, but the ultimate end to capitalism would be bigger and bigger entities controlling all the wealth until the society effectively tipped to socialism anyway (Paraphrased of course). We are there, which way will we tip?!?

Well, in my ancient book of wisdom it appears that the US will get bombed off the face of the earth. Then Russia and China will fight for Global power in World War 111.

They both dislike us. They have never truly been our friends.

I suspect this recent convoy may have something to do with piracy on the oceans. A US cargo ship was recently attacked but a failed attempt.

Iran also has support from Russia and China.

An Arab, Muslim confederacy will attack Israel, most likely Iran. Israel will win decisively in a one day war.

This will bring out nukes against Islamic armies and towns. This war will change the Middle East, as we have known it. This will probably happen before 2010.

I think China has always been made out to be the bogey man. Remember the racists propaganda in the last century about the Yellow Peril, Domino Effect, and so on?

The US has always felt a need to contain China. Whatever for? Is it to create a monster to be feared so that it can justify building military bases all over the world?

The truth is China, or rather the Chinese, are not an aggressive race by nature, unlike the western nations. If it was, the world would probably be speaking Mandarin by now. Name one country China has invaded and colonized? Yet it is made out to be this " yellow peril" that other countries need to fear.

China has never taken an expansionary view of the world in it thousands of years of history. It has never tried to colonise any other country other than what it considers part of its own territory (like Tibet, Taiwan and the Paracels/Spratly islands). In fact, China has always been insular.

It has ample opportunity to colonize the world in the 15th century, but did not attempt to. There is even a hypothesis that the Chinese predates Columbus discovery of the Americas. Contrast that to the white race and its aggressive and imperialistic history of colonising and subjugating of the natives.

This still holds true to this very day with the US in its many ill gotten ventures all over the world.

One has to understand too, that China has a very emotive history in which seven foreign nations were scrounging and trying to break up China for their spoils. They were even forced to buy opium from the British, and consequently, millions of Chinese were addicted to the drug. This was one of the worst crime on humanity perpetrated by a western power.

It is small wonder that the Chinese are wary of foreigners. It does not help when the US is starting wars all over the world and using threat of its nuclear arsenal at every opportune moment (as in Vietnam & Korean War).

So relax, people, the Chinese are just shop keepers by nature. All they want is to set up shop and do business. I just don't see China being an aggressor, its just not in its nature. The military build up is really defensive and also to ensure it trading routes and fuel and minerals supply are not compromised.

You all should really worry more about the US and its policies, if history is any guide. It has taken using false propaganda in starting wars to a fine art. Remember, most Americans were cheering George Bush invading Irag not that long ago on WMD fears?

What's going to be next? China? Really start worrying when the propaganda machine shows signs of starting up.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by A Conscience]

[edit on 6-5-2009 by A Conscience]

[edit on 6-5-2009 by A Conscience]

reply to post by A Conscience


Well said. You make a good point about the voyages of the great Chinese fleets around the world led by the Chinese Eunich Admiral Zheng He in the 15th century. They were voyages of discovery and friendship not of conquest like Western powers.
If there had been a battle for dominance in the 15th century between Europe and China for colonies the Chinese would have wiped the floor with them. At the time Chinese ships were far bigger, far more heavily armed and more numerous. As you said, the have an insular nature which allowed Europeans to colonize the known world.

reply to post by wonderworld


Hi WW, yes I agree it is going to go something close to that. Majority of middle east would like to see the demise of Israel and someday someone is going to try to achieve it. It would make whoever tried it only a notch below mohammud in the muslim world, maybe even equal.

The turmoil in Pakistan is looking serious. We have had our attention on the swine flu while insurgents have inched closer to nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by Bombeni

The turmoil in Pakistan is looking serious. We have had our attention on the swine flu while insurgents have inched closer to nuclear weapons.

I wouldn't worry too much about those. Those weapons would be closely guarded by reliable members of the armed forces. From what I understand most Pakistani's aren't extremists. It would take something like the Iranian revolution to endanger those weapons and I'm sure there are multiple contingency plans in the absolute worst case scenario to take them out.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by wonderworld

 

Hi WW, yes I agree it is going to go something close to that. Majority of middle east would like to see the demise of Israel and someday someone is going to try to achieve it. It would make whoever tried it only a notch below mohammud in the muslim world, maybe even equal.

The turmoil in Pakistan is looking serious. We have had our attention on the swine flu while insurgents have inched closer to nuclear weapons.

Hey Bombeni, you know I was thinking about that this morning about all the millions of people like us in Pakistan that actually split from their homes in fear.

It makes me wonder which Country will be next. We take it for granted sometimes that we are free from war. None of us are free, when you think about it. Many never expected war on their soil.

When I said a Muslim confederacy I was guessing Iran made the most logical sense.

You are right about the popularity of the initiater being one notch below mohammud in the muslim world. I know what you are thinking, on that one.

He may be giving out some orders soon.

Your dog still has alien eyes.






[edit on 6-5-2009 by wonderworld]

China rejects US criticism over military strength

BEIJING -- China blamed the United States on Wednesday for the latest naval confrontation between the countries, after rejecting criticism by Washington that Beijing's rising military strength is focused on countering U.S power.

A U.S. Navy ship "violated" international and Chinese laws by entering what China considers its "exclusive economic zone" without authorization, Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said.

"It entered China's Exclusive Economic Zone in the Yellow Sea without permission from the Chinese side. China is concerned about it, and asked U.S to take effective measures to prevent a similar case from happening again," he said in a statement.

The Pentagon said the latest encounter occurred Friday in international waters when two Chinese fishing vessels came dangerously close _ to within 30 yards (27 meters) _ of the USNS Victorious as it was operating in the Yellow Sea.

The Victorious crew sounded its alarm and shot water from its fire hoses to try to deter the vessels in an hour-long incident, one official said. The vessels didn't leave until the Victorious radioed a nearby Chinese military vessel for help, said Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman.

The past month has seen a number of confrontations between Chinese vessels and U.S. Navy surveillance ships in the Pacific that have become almost a routine cat-and-mouse game on the seas.

There have been four incidents _ including last Friday's _ where Chinese-flagged fishing vessels maneuvered close to unarmed U.S. ships crewed by civilians and used by the Pentagon to do underwater surveillance and submarine hunting missions, two Pentagon officials said.

U.S. Defense officials have called the Chinese maneuvers dangerous and say they could lead to escalating problems.

Military tensions have increased as U.S. officials have increasingly spoken out about China's military spending and the country's lack of transparency.

Earlier this week, Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said China's increasing military strength seemed to be focused on counterbalancing America's presence in Asia.

"They are developing capabilities that are very maritime focused, maritime and air focused, and in many ways, very much focused on us," Mullen said in Washington. "They seem very focused on the United States Navy and our bases that are in that part of the world."

An unidentified Chinese Defense Ministry official was quoted in Wednesday's Global Times newspaper saying that Mullen's remarks were "irresponsible and worked to the disadvantage of the development of Sino-US military relations."

continued at : Link

reply to post by Drexl

BEIJING -- China blamed the United States on Wednesday for the latest naval confrontation between the countries, after rejecting criticism by Washington that Beijing's rising military strength is focused on countering U.S power.

The US should practice the golden rule more than it preaches. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I hope the US is not cranking up it false propaganda machine again. Not another Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Originally posted by rogue1

Yes there are other countries, but they are not considered the biggest threat.

BTW. When was the last time Taiwan had a border clash ? or for that matter Vietnam after 1978. Those borders are peaceful. I certainly know Taiwan has had no problems with China in the last 20 years. In fact realtions are better than ever.

I have been across teh border from China into Vietnams Red River Valley area and didn't see any heavy military presence. In fact alot of trade comes across that border between the two countries.

First of all, Vietnam is a Communist state still, hence there is no real conflict with China since the Communist Chinese enforced their views on Vietnam, and now n political party except Communists can contest in electrions in Vietnam.

Then we have the Chinese invasion of Tibet, and the attrocities they are still incurring to the people of Tibet, more so if you happen to be Buddhist, as in following a way of life which is almost religious.

then we also have the statements, and threats by the CHinese Communist party that they will invade Taiwan if they ever write a new Constitution, and declare total independence from Communist China.

Originally posted by rogue1
It doesn't. they need a buildup to better counter teh US interests in Asia. China has a long history of invasion, they want to be strong enough that it doesn't happen again - whihc means being the biggest kid on the block.

The Communist Chinese goal has always been the same, they are still expanding, but now they use more subversive tactics, and whenever they can they still use force.

Beijing needs to stop freaking out over surveillance ships operating in international waters.

reply to post by Schaden

Beijing needs to stop freaking out over surveillance ships operating in international waters.

What do you think the US would do, if unarmed Chinese ships crewed by civilians and used by China's Intelligence Agency to do underwater surveillance and submarine hunting missions off the coast of, let say, Florida, in international waters?

Originally posted by A Conscience
reply to post by Drexl

 

BEIJING -- China blamed the United States on Wednesday for the latest naval confrontation between the countries, after rejecting criticism by Washington that Beijing's rising military strength is focused on countering U.S power.

The US should practice the golden rule more than it preaches. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I hope the US is not cranking up it false propaganda machine again. Not another Gulf of Tonkin incident.

of course thats what there doing, same thing with North Korea, just baiting them along to see if they will bite.

how else to get the mass sheeple to follow into another false reason war... have it started by someone else, and the US has to defends it's people, there for the people are for it

Originally posted by A Conscience
What do you think the US would do, if unarmed Chinese ships crewed by civilians and used by China's Intelligence Agency to do underwater surveillance and submarine hunting missions off the coast of, let say, Florida, in international waters?

They do worse, the Chinese that is, they capture aircraft which they shoot over international waters and force to land on Chinese territory to steal our technology.

They threaten Taiwan with military force and do exercises whose goal is to strong arm Taiwan into not declaring their independence.

They also try to confront U.S. and it's allies in international waters, such as

Chinese Vessels Approach Sealift Command Ship in Yellow Sea
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, May 5, 2009 – Chinese fishing vessels closed in on and maneuvered near the USNS Victorious in international waters in the Yellow Sea on May 1, Pentagon officials said today.

The Victorious is one of the five ocean surveillance ships that are part of the 25 ships in Military Sealift Command's Special Mission Ships Program.

The vessel was conducting routine operations 170 miles off the coast of China when two Chinese fishing vessels approached, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.
“This was an incident where a couple of Chinese fishing vessels maneuvered close to the Victorious in what was an unsafe manner,” Whitman said.

The Victorious took defensive measures as the vessels got close. The Victorious crew sounded the ship’s danger alarms and manned fire hoses. They sprayed water at the Chinese vessels, but did not hit them, officials said.

The Victorious requested the assistance of a nearby Chinese government vessel, at which time the fishing vessels departed, Whitman said.

He did not comment on the motive of the Chinese vessels. “That requires you to get inside the heads of the mariners out there,” he said. “What is clear is that it is unsafe and dangerous behavior, and it needs to be addressed. We do not want the mariners of any of the vessels out there in jeopardy.”

One Chinese vessel approached within 30 yards of the Victorious, officials said. “They are clearly demonstrating unsafe seamanship,” Whitman said. “As we have in previous incidents, we’ll be developing a way forward to deal with this diplomatically.”

On March 8, five Chinese vessels surrounded the USNS Impeccable as it was conducting operations 80 nautical miles off Hainan Island. There have been other incidents where Chinese vessels operated in an unsafe manner around U.S. ocean surveillance ships.

“It’s in everybody’s interest to ensure that safe procedures on the seas are followed,” Whitman said. “This was clearly well into international waters.”

Military vessels are not subject to coastal state jurisdiction and do not require the prior consent of the coastal state for activity in the exclusive economic zone.

www.globalsecurity.org...

BTW, in case you didn't know the Chinese use all their large shipping, and fishing vessels also as military vessels, in case of war, these ships are rigged so that with a few changes they can be converted into military vessels.

Originally posted by A Conscience
reply to post by Drexl

 

BEIJING -- China blamed the United States on Wednesday for the latest naval confrontation between the countries, after rejecting criticism by Washington that Beijing's rising military strength is focused on countering U.S power.

The US should practice the golden rule more than it preaches. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I hope the US is not cranking up it false propaganda machine again. Not another Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Yeah right because for all it's power th US can't even contain 50 million people in 2 third world countries. Like they need another war which they could never win.

I always love this crap die hard morons in thhis country like top put that America can invade China, what a load of complete BS. The US Marine would be lost in a few days and the Army a week after.