Boone, at last a solid link to a reasonable explanation for those 25.3 seconds John Farmer found also already a long time ago, he found it in his then
freshly received FOIA requests. For that link you got my star.
I remarked already about it early in this thread, and here :
but without a solid link like yours, which is new for me btw.
It still is a remarkable discrepancy from all the other Air Defense Sectors, especially seen in the light of that special day.
Why and when
did NEADS set its radar records clock 25.3 seconds too slow?
Let's recap now the time stamp for the two involved planes' 12 o'clock positions in the RADES/NEADS blue and yellow pins map drawing posted by
I first took the 09:36:01 time from that map as that position.
09:36:26.3 is now however the corrected RADES radar time stamp for that 12 o'clock positions event, adjusted for the 25.3 seconds that NEADS lagged
behind to all the other sectors' correct GPS times.
09:36:22 is the time stamp for the same event from the officially transcribed "Pinnacle" FOIA version of the " DCA 108 TYSON " audio tape. That's
only 4.3 seconds difference.
I do realize the fault margins of possibly several seconds involved in the pilot's mind-processing of the 12 o'clock event, so when we can trust the
timeline of events expressed in that " DCA 108 TYSON " audio tape, there is no real discrepancy anymore between the audio taped events, and the
radar data taped events.
The only problem I still have with trusting that timeline, is the near impossibility to find a precise
event we can clock to identical events
in other timelines.
The only one I can see as a reasonable candidate, would be the 09:38:00 time stamp
in the Pinnacle transcript. That's the one where " GOFER06
advised aircraft was down just northwest of DCA ".
I do realize again, that this reporting by O'Brien is not a precise time stamp, he perhaps had to wait to see smoke rising, before talking to his
flight controller at Andrews AFB. But it will be within a few seconds error margin at most. And I do suppose him to have seen the bright impact flash
first, before smoke rose up, and start reporting when he saw that flash after he followed the constant descent of that 757 with his own eyes.
The stubborn distrusting disbeliever I am by education, of officially, or by news outlets, offered facts, I now try to cross-check
released timestamps for the impact event.
1. The 9/11 Commission put the time of impact as 09:37:46 AM.
9/11 commission staff statement No. 17:
Excerpt: ""The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.""
2. The Pinnacle PDF transcript has O'Brien telling us at 09:38:00 :
""Gofer06 advised aircraft was down just northwest of DCA"".
That's 14 seconds difference, which I can accept as (maximum) needed to switch his mike and inform his Andrews AFB flight controller.
The purple dot for flight 77 disappears from the screen between 09:37:25 and 09:37:29 (~09:37:27),
and we knew that we had to add 25.3 seconds to that figure to get the real impact time for the RADES radar data, which is thus 09:37:50 to 09:37:54
Two of these time stamps ( 2. 09:38:00 and 3. ~09:37:52 ) differ 8 seconds and the 9/11 Commission one differs 14 or 6 seconds which is within a
maximum acceptable error margin. That could be acceptable as a slow reaction time because of utter confusion of a pilot seeing another pilot crashing
(into the Pentagon) somewhere in his far distance.
Remember, O'Brien said not that he saw the plane crash into the Pentagon, he stated he saw it ""was down just northwest of DCA"".
To compare the provided time stamps, we can calculate the time span it took according to the Pinnacle transcript from the GOFER06 ""impact""
remark, back to his ""12 o'clock position"".
That would be 09:38:00 minus 09:36:22 = 98 seconds
in the Pinnacle transcript from the DCA_TYSON audio tape.
We then double-check
by listening to two actual audio tapes to physically calculate the same period, and that gives us two time stamps, 12:05
and 11:50 in the two audio tapes when O'Brien tells his flight controller ""it's at my 12 o'clock position"" and the moment O'Brien gives his
""aircraft was down just northwest of DCA"" remark, which should be at the actual audio tapes
12:05 seconds + 98 "Pinnacle" seconds = 13:43 position
11:50 seconds + 98 "Pinnacle" seconds = 13:58 position
Did I find those "down" remarks there?
The first tape is now at this John Farmer page ( aal77.com...
) under this link :
1 DCA 108 TYSON 1325-1348 (11 MB)
It has the introductory female voice overlapping at the tape start, and has the "12 o'clock position" remark beginning at 12:05 in that tape. It
has the "plane down" remark beginning at 13:38 in that tape.
That is a time elapsed of 93 seconds
, a 5 seconds neglectable difference with the Pinnacle transcript.
The second tape is at his MOVIES-link ( aal77.com...
) under this name :
DCA_TYSON Mix, AVI file (70 MB)
I found that "plane down" remark now beginning at the 13:23 point in that tape. I found the 12 o'clock remark beginning at 11:49 in the tape.
Thus, in the audio we now find by physically listening to it, that actually 13:23 minus 11:49 elapsed, which is 94 seconds
, a 4 seconds
neglectable difference with the Pinnacle transcript.
To triple check
on those time stamps, we can also subtract 98 "Pinnacle" seconds from the
) RADES-radar/NEADS-audio video impact
position of 09:37:27 (mean value) on that
RADES-screen, and see if we then arrive at a RADES-screen-visible ""12 o'clock"" position for O'Brien's green dotted GOFER06 plane compared to
the purple dotted LOOK plane which was flight 77.
We move the video slider on the bottom of that screen back from "impact" to that "12 o'clock" time shown in the top center of that RADES/NEADS
That must be found then at the 09:37:27 mean (between 09:37:25 and 09:37:29) visible disappearance of the plane's radar dot "impact" moment, minus
98 seconds = 09:35:49 for the "twelve o'clock" position .
Did I find that "12 o'clock position there?
No, I did find it at the 09:36:01,394 position, which is only 12.4 seconds away. That's not significant enough for a conspiracy proposal.
Which time we must actually correct by adding 25.3 seconds to arrive at a real time "12 o'clock position" of 09:36:26,694
which we then at
last can compare to the real time audio tape transcript time from the Pinnacle FOIA document of 09:36:22, which is an acceptable 4.7 seconds, within
the error margin.
As I wrote above:
""09:36:26.3 is now however the correct RADES radar time stamp for that (12 o'clock position) event, adjusted for the 25.3 seconds that NEADS
lagged behind to all the other sectors' correct GPS times.""
09:36:26.3 compared to a corrected RADES time stamp of 09:36:26,694 is a neglectable discrepancy.
That is definitely ""within a few seconds error margin at most"", as I noted above.
To conclude this lengthy brain training, I seemed to have re-invented the 25.3 seconds "wheel", arriving at the same conclusion as John Farmer and
several others, but by different reasoning.
What a waste of time, caused by one tiny faulty FOIA request answer. NEADS had set its radar clock 25.3 seconds wrong.
OK, back to the basics.
Anybody out there contesting the CIT witness statements, indicating a definite north of Citgo, and over the Navy Annex building flight path?
Which in turn strongly suggests that most of the officially released data is in fact falsified.
What was the last offered, corrected by adding 25.3 seconds, official NEADS radar return time stamp for the attack plane?
And was that time stamp later than a possible 9/11 Commission impact time of 09:37:46 ?
I don't think however, that such bold mistakes would have been made in planning such events.