How could it be both? I just explained to you how it is only religion. Lets make this simple for you and the rest of the students, Are Mormons a race or a religion. They have their own land(Utah). Race or Religion? Now dont be unfair.


[Edited on 27-4-2004 by ashley]

To the Original poster.

Apologize for events that never occured ?

Nothing written in the Bible every happened. It was all but a dynamic tool of control to manipulate and decieve the en mass of the time.

How could you expect to have these innocent Jews seek forgivness for a man that history dictates as non-existent.

Deep

Originally posted by ashley
How could it be both? I just explained to you how it is only religion. Lets make this simple for you and the rest of the students, Are Mormons a race or a religion. They have their own land(Utah). Race or Religion? Now dont be unfair.


[Edited on 27-4-2004 by ashley]

You are completely wrong dude, Judaism is more than just a religion, its a race, culture and nationality now too.

more than anything else though, Jews ARE a Race

if jesus wasnt killed, im pretty sure people would never really know that he was our saviour. in other words he had to die, to be resurrected so that everyone could finally see that he was after all the son of god, etc. i aint religious, just making a relevant point

How could it be both? I just explained to you how it is only religion. Lets make this simple for you and the rest of the students, Are Mormons a race or a religion. They have their own land(Utah). Race or Religion? Now dont be unfair.

Actually you didn't explain anything. You stated an opinion. An opinion I partially agreed with. And whether you think jews are a race or not, Jews do believe they are as another poster stated a race, religion and philisophical way of life.

As I (actually) attempted to explain to you, there are jewish scholars who would not consider me a Jew because my mother was not born jewish.

If you are going to be condescending please make sure you can back up what you say instead of assuming your opinion is fact.

Mormons are a religion, we know this. Jewish people trace their heritage and philisophical belief thousands of years back to egypt (please no assaults about who the real jews are, please see my earlier posts) and consider their religion to be in their blood so to speak.

Did I use words that were too big for you ashley, I can use smaller ones if you like.

Now that's being condescending!

Spiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj

How could it be both? I just explained to you how it is only religion. Lets make this simple for you and the rest of the students, Are Mormons a race or a religion. They have their own land(Utah). Race or Religion? Now dont be unfair.

Actually you didn't explain anything. You stated an opinion. An opinion I partially agreed with. And whether you think jews are a race or not, Jews do believe they are as another poster stated a race, religion and philisophical way of life.

As I (actually) attempted to explain to you, there are jewish scholars who would not consider me a Jew because my mother was not born jewish.

If you are going to be condescending please make sure you can back up what you say instead of assuming your opinion is fact.

Mormons are a religion, we know this. Jewish people trace their heritage and philisophical belief thousands of years back to egypt (please no assaults about who the real jews are, please see my earlier posts) and consider their religion to be in their blood so to speak.

Did I use words that were too big for you ashley, I can use smaller ones if you like.

Now that's being condescending!

Spiderj

Salaam Alykum

So what would i call a Jewish person who reverts to Islam?
A Jewish Muslim?
Or what if he converts to Christianity?
A jewish Christian?

Please help me on this.

Thanks

guerilla

No, the jews shouldn't apologize. The word jew didn't even exist until after 1775, so therefore the jews couldn't have killed jesus.
How can one be sure that the people in Israel are even the real jews. You would have to be sure that you were dealing with someone whose ancestors were actually there. Seems like that would be a hard task.

Originally posted by KSoze
How can one be sure that the people in Israel are even the real jews. You would have to be sure that you were dealing with someone whose ancestors were actually there. Seems like that would be a hard task.

They aren't because they cannot trace thewir lineage back to Abraham. that is the only way one can be a Jew in my eyes.

Interesting that you think the term Jew did not appear until 1775 because I have personally seen numerous translations of that very term in the collection of a family friend who has bibles that date back a few hundred years before that year. They are in the original Hebrew and constantly use the term "Yehudi" which in it's literal sense was originally intended to mean Descendant of the Tribe of Judah, but was later changed to mean a Jewish person.

The best proof I can give you of the change of meaning is in the Book of Esther it refers to the protagonist in the following way Chapter 2 Verse 5: A Yehudi man was in the Capital City of Shushan, and his name was Mordecai son of Yair, son of Shimi, son of Kish, A Benjaminite.

Now clearly the term Yehudi is no longer referring to the Tribe of Judah because in the same sentence it states he is a Benjaminite. So, this would mark an occurrence of the term Jew LONG before 1775.

Colonel, what about the Levites who can trace their family lineage back through certain traditions that they do all the way back to the first great Temple? Do you honestly expect these people to have written records to show they are connected to Abraham? Keep in mind they didn't even have last names then. Abraham was "Abraham ben Terach". Moses was "Moses ben Amram". King David was "David ben Jesse" (ben meaning son of).

Additionally I don't see any other group 'proving' lineage to Abraham any more than the modern day Jews have.

[Edited on 4-28-2004 by Djarums]

If Jew's should have to apologize for past transgressions, then Lutherans should have to apologize as well. Hitler himself stated that he got his ideals from somewhere, and reading scripts left behind by Luther himself, it seems just as bad as any crime committed in the past by anybody.

Salaam Alykum

So what would i call a Jewish person who reverts to Islam?
A Jewish Muslim?
Or what if he converts to Christianity?
A jewish Christian?

Please help me on this.

Thanks

guerilla

That's the problem, I have no idea. I would assume they'd want to be referred to as a muslim or christian.

Like I said it gets a little confusing.

Spiderj

You are completely wrong dude, Judaism is more than just a religion, its a race, culture and nationality now too.

more than anything else though, Jews ARE a Race


Wrong,,,right. The jewish people want to give their religion a little validity by calling it a race, but it still is only a religion. Trying the old"if a lie is repeated enough"scam.

Amish have a culture,does that make them a race or just another religion? You know the answer.

Nationality, I have heard of the nation of Islam but never the nation of jews. Is Islam a race or religion? You know the answer. Dont try the nation of israel either, isnt israel considered an independent state. Hah, try dependent state.

Actually you didn't explain anything. You stated an opinion. An opinion I partially agreed with. And whether you think jews are a race or not, Jews do believe they are as another poster stated a race, religion and philisophical way of life.

As I (actually) attempted to explain to you, there are jewish scholars who would not consider me a Jew because my mother was not born jewish.

If you are going to be condescending please make sure you can back up what you say instead of assuming your opinion is fact.

Mormons are a religion, we know this. Jewish people trace their heritage and philisophical belief thousands of years back to egypt (please no assaults about who the real jews are, please see my earlier posts) and consider their religion to be in their blood so to speak.

Did I use words that were too big for you ashley, I can use smaller ones if you like.

Now that's being condescending!

Spiderj


You unwittingly have helped me prove my point.
"Jews do believe they are" thats what i am saying , they can believe all they want. It doesnt make a religion a race.

"Jewish scholars who would not consider" Once again "same as above"

Thats not an opinion, it is a fact. Religion is not race,correct or are all religions race. Be fair now.

" Jewish people trace their heritage and consider " Once again jewish people think that way because they are trying to give validity to their religion. In a thousand years will Mormon be a race?

Of course you didnt use too big of words,thanks for the offer of dumbing down a bit though if i needed it.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by ashley]

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by ashley]

ashley are you a recent convert to judaism?

If judaism was nothing but a religion, then why cant others join it?

most jews do not accept converts, and you have to be born a jew. the oldest form of racism in the world still exists and its called Judaism

Look, the real Jews were a race. They were a particular type of people that looked like me and my icon. It just so happens that the whole culture was hijacked like Elvis hijacked rock and roll from black people, jazz was hijacked, eminem et. al is hijacking rap, the hip hop cultre is being hijacked. Its the same thing happening all over again. Just read the Bible and you'll see it.

Ashlar, once again you speak about something you have no understanding of. You say that

most jews do not accept converts, and you have to be born a jew. the oldest form of racism in the world still exists and its called Judaism

That is absolutely false and in the Old Testament it states on many occasions "And the convert who lives with you". Religious Jews are taught to respect converts as much as (if not more than others born into the religion) because a convert has CHOSEN to join Judaism as opposed to being born into it and having it be expected of him.

The conversion process is a difficult one for the reason of wanting the person to understand the responsibilities it entails (for example laws, holidays, sabbath, prohibitions, dietary rules and so forth).

I really wish you would stop making uneducated comments about Judaism because you have proven beyond any doubts that you know nothing about it.

Colonel, firstly the people you refer to looked middle eastern, not African. The reason for that is an amazing one. It's because they were from the middle east. Not Africa.

In any event, for you to compare your theory on the "real" jews being black to some trend of white people "stealing" black entertainment is insensitive and ignorant. You feel that you can state your case that the millions of Jewish people in the world today are full of # and use Eminem as your supporting argument. Give me a break.

Originally posted by Djarums
Colonel, firstly the people you refer to looked middle eastern, not African. The reason for that is an amazing one. It's because they were from the middle east. Not Africa.

Where is Eygpt? Certainly ain't in the Middle East last time I checked. Furthermore, there is a verse in the New Testament that depicts Simon as being from Niger. Where is Niger? See, you need to read and then you would know.

In any event, for you to compare your theory on the "real" jews being black to some trend of white people "stealing" black entertainment is insensitive and ignorant.

I just call it like I see it. Rock and roll was never started by whites but it is dominated completely by whites. Don't get mad at me for telling the truth. Its happened ovber and over again.

You feel that you can state your case that the millions of Jewish people in the world today are full of # and use Eminem as your supporting argument. Give me a break.

No, I use the Old Testament and the New testament---not just Eminem. He is just an example.

Ashley are you a recent convert to judaism? NO

If judaism was nothing but a religion, then why cant others join it?
THEY CAN

most jews do not accept converts, and you have to be born a jew. the oldest form of racism in the world still exists and its called Judaism HOW CAN IT BE RACISM WHEN JUDAISM IS A RELIGION AND NOT A RACE.

Originally posted by ashley
most jews do not accept converts, and you have to be born a jew. the oldest form of racism in the world still exists and its called Judaism HOW CAN IT BE RACISM WHEN JUDAISM IS A RELIGION AND NOT A RACE.

Look at this. They hijack a culture from the true peoples then exclude others from being in it for they are "the chosen people." Amazing.