On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - Very Important Read for All

I know this is a very long quote but I felt it was necessary to quote the entire article. If this offends the ATS guidelines, I apologize. Mods feel free to cut some of it, I couldn't because I felt ALL of it was important for the people of ATS to read. I also had no idea where to post it, it encompasses all of the topic sections.

www.killology.com...

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs
(From the book, On Combat, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman)
"Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself.
The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for?"

- William J. Bennett
In a lecture to the United States Naval Academy
November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: ...

Mod edit: Removed very large quote. Please visit the link to read the entire text

[edit on 30 Apr 09 by Gools]

Mod edit: removed very large quote
.

[edit on 30 Apr 09 by Gools]

Mod Edit: removed very large quote.
.

[edit on 30 Apr 09 by Gools]

When we blame "the government", "the police", "the military" or any other organization of individuals, we must remember that they are "organizations" of INDIVIDUALS. Individuals choose whether to be sheep, wolves, or sheepdogs not the organization.

[edit on 30/4/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Excellent read, Iamonlyhuman and I thank you for sharing it.

This writing rings true to me, and I've noticed similar behaviors from time to time. It seems to me that it is built into the sheepdog to sacrifice himself or herself in times of attack, for the good of the herd, ever if the herd refuses to befriend it. Once the threat has passed, (sweeping generalization continues) the herd goes back to shunning the sheepdog.

I think this says loads about gun control, military topics, and disinformation topics. You are not a warrior/sheepdog because you carry a gun even though you may carry a gun because you are a warrior. It is not the gun that makes a warrior, however, when the warrior is disarmed by legislation, then the wolves are much more likely to move in. It is the intention and action that makes one a warrior. Shining a light on disinformation and trying to inform the sheep is a form of war or sheepherding as well.

[edit on 30/4/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


I never heard of Tood Beamer before this.. Honestly I got goosebumps reading what he did and said. I'm that guy who wishes I could have been there.. Good for him

Good post

This is it in a nutshell.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

Interesting & convincing sheep/wolf allegory, I agree. But why the mingling with the biased 9/11 view. Are you sure the wolf was ON the plane....?

[edit on 30-4-2009 by WonderfulWorld]

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog

....... and if there should happen to be a gathering of sheepdogs to respond to the threat, then the sheep are inclined to distrust the sheepdogs and accuse them of being in collusion with the wolves.

-- just one whackamole's impressions. --

This is probably one of the best posts I have seen on ATS. This doesn't speak to me it yells at me. I hate it when people blame the military, law enforcement, you name it but when the SHTF who do they want to save them? The Sheepdogs.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by nastalgik]

“Well Grandma” says little Miss Riding Hood “You sure do seem and look different today”!

A well disguised wolf can fool many sheep as well as sheep dogs!

A very well disguised wolf can fool the sheep into electing him or her to lead the flock and to elevate themselves above and beyond the suspicion of the sheep dogs.

Dogs are lovable, loyal, trusted, and true but typically dumb as the day is long.

Once deep in a city park far from where most pedestrians wandered I left my sometimes temperamental dog off his leash to roam at his leisure with a watchful eye on him. At fifty feet away he was close enough to see and monitor but not close enough to gain quick control of while off of his leash.

When I heard the distant approach of some pedestrians and the tell tale jingle of a dog’s choker collar I called for my dog to come back. He of course ignored me, as I called him again and again and he gave me that stubborn obstinate look that said “What do you want? I am right here for pity’s sake can’t you see me, you silly man”. Desperate to regain control of him before a potentially confrontational situation with another dog and human beings occurred I stumbled upon an idea.

I held up his leash high in the air and dangled it and jingled it and said “Come on boy let’s go for a walk!” His ears perked up, he tensed into alertness and then bounded over to where I was standing wagging his tail excited to be going for a walk. All I could do was shake my head and laugh and say “Oh you poor dumb animal, you are already on a walk you nincompoop!”

Dogs are pretty easy to fool too!

Sometimes it takes a wolf to catch a wolf, to know a wolf, to understand a wolf, to anticipate a wolf, to defeat that wolf.

Was Robin Hood a wolf or was the Sheriff of Nottingham?

Dogs sometimes become rabid, sometimes their own inherent wild wolf like instincts seize control over them, sometimes even after a long period of domestication they will take to roaming in predatory packs when out for their evening walks.

A wolf knows he is a wolf and when he decides he wants to stop and confront other wolfs it is not by accident or confusion but for the very same reason the sheep dog normally protects the flock, the wolf understands its in his best interest to not let the flock of sheep be disbanded beyond any chance of them reuniting or be slaughtered to extinction.

Ultimately being a sheep, a domesticated piece of live stock means one thing, being herded, and being culled to be sheared and left naked and defenseless at the mercy of the elements or being slaughtered for some mutton or rack of lamb or bongo or banjo skins.

I personally do not advise in being a sheep, especially in West Virginia or Greece!

It’s true that every dog will have its day, but it’s also true it’s a dog eat dog world!

I am pretty happy and proud in fact to be a wolf. Some night when you see a full moon in the sky, if you cock your ear towards it you might even hear me howl, if you listen closely.

Wolfs are scavengers but they are also cannibals and some do not like the taste of mint Jelly or that gamey lamb taste at all.

Wolfs are part of a balanced natural environment, sheep well…honestly; they are over bred for domestication and exploitation.

Some food for thought…oh and please wipe the cud off of your chin it’s down right revolting!


[edit on 30/4/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

“Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.” Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, “We intimidate those who intimidate others.”

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. [snip] But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

The warrior...what a beautiful thing...a rare thing and a noble being indeed. Salute to all the fellow warriors.

I love this line: “We intimidate those who intimidate others.”

Its been my lifelong feeling. So many things I have seen. One that will always be at the forefront of my mind was when I was about 20 years old. I had this guy living next door he was a steel worker hard as a rock and strong as a bull. I was walking to the store one evening and he was in his front yard, drunk beating the hell out of his drunk girlfriend.

I looked over at my best buddy who was walking to the store with me and said "dude Ken is too big for me to take alone I need you to back me. He said no man its none of our business and started walking fast, I saw fear in his eyes. Myself I was scared spitless, Ken was raging mad and I knew he would half kill me. I couldn't let him keep hurting this woman though.

I couldnt even swallow. but when I stepped up to the plate something happened inside of me. I became calm and confident. I said "Ken I cant let you do that to her" he turned and said wtf are you going to do? I said "you may kick my ass, but if I have to I will chew your balls off let her go"

He let her go. Then she swung her purse and tried to break his front window. I said dont do that, just get in your car and get the hell out of here!

The warriors way is the path I will always follow. Until the wolf caps me.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Dogs are lovable, loyal, trusted, and true but typically dumb as the day is long.

Once deep in a city park far from where most pedestrians wandered I left my sometimes temperamental dog off his leash to roam at his leisure with a watchful eye on him. At fifty feet away he was close enough to see and monitor but not close enough to gain quick control of while off of his leash.

When I heard the distant approach of some pedestrians and the tell tale jingle of a dog’s choker collar I called for my dog to come back. He of course ignored me, as I called him again and again and he gave me that stubborn obstinate look that said “What do you want? I am right here for pity’s sake can’t you see me, you silly man”. Desperate to regain control of him before a potentially confrontational situation with another dog and human beings occurred I stumbled upon an idea.

I held up his leash high in the air and dangled it and jingled it and said “Come on boy let’s go for a walk!” His ears perked up, he tensed into alertness and then bounded over to where I was standing wagging his tail excited to be going for a walk. All I could do was shake my head and laugh and say “Oh you poor dumb animal, you are already on a walk you nincompoop!”

Dogs are pretty easy to fool too!

Maybe the dog was happy to see you were as stupid as him and forgot you were both on a walk already. He just get all excited like hey look my buddy forgot too!

Just kidding, your point in you post about wolves was well put.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by LoneGunMan]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Have you ever seen a sheep dog that looks like a sheep?

Have you ever seen a wolf that looks like a sheep dog?

Have you ever seen a wolf that looks exactly like a sheep?
When a sheep is missing but there's no wolf around, who eats the sheep?

You have no idea what's going on out there, it's just not that simple.

Posted this about a year ago on the now defunct PTS section. It's a great read. My favorite part would have to be this one:

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

It's as true today as it was 10 years ago.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

Maybe the dog was happy to see you were as stupid as him and forgot you were both on a walk already. He just get all excited like hey look my buddy forgot too!

Just kidding, your point in you post about wolves was well put.

Hey thanks my friend...I miss that funny old dog. I was so torn up when I had to put him down for medical reasons I said never again. He was a charachter.

Wolves are by the way naturual opportunists and scavengers. I have had a couple friends over the years that had domesticated pet wolves they raised from pups.

The real difference between a wolf and a sheep dog in my oppinion is one is collared one is not. In other words one is enslaved and bound by a set of imposed rules and has a Master that would be the sheep dog, one is a natural creature living by Nature's and not man's laws.

In many ways on a deeo, core base philisophical level the OP is pitching the virtues of enslavement and a certain class of slaves protecting another class of slaves, those being the sheep until they are culled, sheared or killed by the same Master who enslaves the Sheep Dog that protects them.

I liked your post very much and it doesn't surprise me you have such a brave and noble heart at all my friend.

I have put my life on the line too on occassion to protect the innocent and defenseless. Like you I made the determination to take that risk based on my intrinsic sense of right and wrong and justice, not as somethign I was bound to do through direct order from a Master who in fact might have been ordering me to attack someone completely innocent for political reasons or through incompetence or negligence.

A wolf is by and large free to pick and choose his battles and are notorious for slinking off when the odds don't favor them.

Some say discretion is the better part of valor.

A sheep dog though bound by his collar to his Master is obliged to obey his Masters commands right or wrong regardless of his odds to survive the encounter, he might be beloved by his Master but it is the flock that represents real dollars and profit from commerce that is the Master's primary concern and not his sheep dog that is at the end of the day simply considered an expendable beast of burden in ensuring his Master's assett in the flock.

Personally in my humble oppinion you and your friend acted as wolves, you saw an opportunity to do good and took it upon yourself regardless of the legality or rules involved or personal risk to act on your own free instincts.

Had you been a collared sheep dog your Master might have opted to say heel boy, that's not my property there, don't you go risking yourself for it.

That's the distinction I am drawing.

Wolves are free and do what comes natural to them. Sheep dogs are not and do what they are trained unnaturually to do. Just my oppinion.

Thanks.

The thing I disagree with in the article linked to is the following.

We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids’ schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are dozens of times more likely to be killed, and thousands of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard, so they choose the path of denial.

While there is no doubt that many do live their lives in denial, this is in my opinion a gross generalization and does not take into account the broad spectrum of experience and attitude that make up an entire society.

People are perfectly capable of fully comprehending, accepting, and knowing a fact in its totality (i.e. not denying it) while still disagreeing with the conclusions, policies, and actions of those using said fact to justify them.

Disagreeing with an opinion, policy, action, or attitude does not automatically equate to denial of what the holder or proponent of said opinion, policy, action, or attitude states as justification for it.

It is an enormous leap of logic in my opinion to conclude that if someone disagrees with stance A, then they must be in denial about fact or circumstance B.

What a fabulous article. Thank you for sharing that. It is quite accurate and really makes one question their own place in the world. Before the read, I would have classified myself as a sheepdog, now I think perhaps I am closer to a sheep than I thought. Always good to have a little introspection into one's life. If nothing else it iterates the importance of preparedness, and I for one will make myself more consistently prepared on a daily basis because of the information within.

Thanks

reply to post by AceWombat04


Sticking with the section you quoted, how many times have you heard people complain or be outraged over sprinklers or fire alarms in schools? Now how many times have you heard people complain or be outraged over even a suggestion of armed police officers or metal detectors? The only time the latter is deemed acceptable is immediately following a school shooting. Any other time it's a violation of rights and/or too dangerous to have an armed police officer. Sounds like denial to me.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So are you saying you are a predator? I don't mean to offend you, but I honestly think you looked too much at the words, and left the meaning lying on the table.

Would it have been easier to understand if he would have said white knights and black knights, or angels and devils instead of sheepdogs and wolves?

Plato once said (I think it was Plato maybe Aristotle but none the less). "The fool reads the words, the philosopher understands the meaning."