reply to post by Gawdzilla
You're the one claiming "intelligent design", you prove it. There are far more random things in the world than there are patterned ones.
Cherry-picking the rare example of pattern and then claiming baselessly that that pattern "proves" something is absurd.
For me to prove I.D. to you, I would need a perspective gun like the one in Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
.....or some kind of contraption, that when turned on, would automatically tune your awareness and consciousness beyond logic and reason so you can
see it all around you for yourself.
and of course if the first 2 didnt work .....you'd have to travel down a lengthy mystical spiritual road full of deprogramming your logic, reason,
and opening your heart to universal love and optimized awareness to see this.
Unfortunately, there are more people existing that don't see I.D. all around us than there is that do. And what usually happens when we have a case
of majority/minority in anything? Well in that case you get the majority pretty much running the show, calling all the shots in most positions of
power, and calling the minority a bunch of idiots.
Even randomness is a pattern. If randomness wasn't a pattern then we wouldnt be able to realize it was randomness and wouldnt be discussing it now,
cause we wouldnt know what it is. Randomness is a pattern of randomness .....still a pattern
Not only that, but there is a whole branch of mathematics with equations, professors and theories that study the possibility of there being patterns
and order in chaos. Even infinity ...see my signature by Georg Cantor, is studied and used by science.
If anything is random you might as well say the king of all randomness is infinity ....see infinity has to explore every possible possibility for its
true nature to be infinite ....including order and chaos. But infinity itself is a design and is an intelligent idea (or reality which ever you
prefer) ...and so by its own nature of having to explore every possible possibility including patterns and randomness .......it makes the subjects
that it is exploring; patterns, and designs, and sets, and organizes them, and deorganizes them, and destructs them.
You would have to imagine this mentally and in the grand scheme of things down to every atom and wave in existence all the way up to every possible
Universe and dimension and space that all of this is in to see that infinity exploring itself through every possible possibility is in fact designed
to do so. It itself has to be intelligent to be able to explore itself through every possible possibility.
If infinity wasn't intelligent, then it would lack that one characteristic(intelligence) for it to be infinity.
If infinity wasn't self aware of itself, then it would lack that characteristic(self awareness) for it to be infinity.
If infinity wasn't a design, then it would lack that characteristic(design) for it to be infinity.
If infinity wasn't true and didnt exist, then it would lack that characteristic(truth and existence) for it to be infinity. Plus we would be
discussing it here cause we wouldnt know what it is and we wouldnt be using it in math.
So it's intelligent by nature, and also by nature has to create every possible possibility so it can explore it.
This all just to say that everything I mentioned above, about infinity, has been, and is being studied by the smartest people in the world. And they
have proof that infinity exists ....mathematical models proving it to be so.
So if infinity is proven to exist ...then what you think is randomness, is really a creation of infinity for it to explore.
And if that's so, then infinity has created a set of "randomnesses" that, themselves were designed just for the sake of infinity being able to
explore them, to be them, so they can be part of infinity's characteristics.
Wrap your head around that for a few days using your logic and reason and you will find intelligence and design behind it all.
Yes by nature, if randomness is to be true and real, as mathematical models prove and as inifinity would have to be a part of, then technically it
itself would be wholly random.
But still randomness is a creation, came from somewhere, made by something, its the result of something. It leads back to a intelligence source.
"Cherry-picking the rare example of pattern and then claiming baselessly that that pattern "proves" something is absurd."
Hardly rare. I just proved above that randomness is a pattern. Everything is a pattern. Even something that is no pattern ....is still a pattern of
having no pattern-ness to it.
I would even go so far as to bet you bank$$$ that this whole theory I just laid out before your eyes, that to me proves intelligent design, can be
proven all mathematically with equations and calculators and college professors.
God can be proven mathematically, but somebody seeing the equations would only see equations ...they wouldnt be able to grasp their head around God
....just like we can't grasp our heads around infinity ...and yet we see the symbol all the time, especially in traffic .....when we see the symbol
on the back of an infinity model car ....unaware that infinity is self-aware, intelligent, alive, breathing, being.
So you think our existence is all randomness and out of randomness came evolution??? That should show you right there that randomness itself is
intelligent enough to allow it to bring forth a set of evolutions to continue to exist.
If you just set up a system of pure randomness, without intelligence, without awareness, without anything ...then it will always be randomness and
will never change from that state.
But if you add to that intelligence, awareness, direction ...then you will inevitably get some form of evolution to spring up out of it.
That's why our existence has intelligence and design in it. If it didn't, there would be only randomness. We wouldnt be here, we wouldnt have
evolution, we wouldnt have patterns, we wouldn't have design.
What I would agree with you with, is that there originally was only randomness in the beginning ....but then I would go off and say that its all
directed by Infinity and Infinity is self aware, intelligent, and designed.
And for randomness to be true pure randomness(with out any set value), it would have to be random infinitely. And for randomness to be random
infinitely would require the existence of infinity.
Infinity proves randomness/chaos and randomness/chaos proves infinity.
[edit on 7-4-2009 by dominicus]
