You get this when police brutality happens with thousands of eye witnesses.

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by sir_chancealot

 

A riot is a disorganized mob and is not the kind of "rebellion" that Jefferson advocated.

I once brought up the same quote that you used in an American History class and asked the instructor (A PhD in history) why we haven't had a rebellion since the Civil War. Her response was profound. She replied that the public has a chance to rebel against the status quo every election day. She then went on to point out that those who don't vote simply choose not to participate, which is their right, but they are also very unlikely to rebel in any other manner.

Going slightly off-topic here, but your government and mine are blurring the lines between what is rebellion and what is terrorist activity.

You and I both know that if a group rose up to rebel, they would be called a terrorist organization within moments, and any actions against them, however violent, would be accepted under current law.

That is the main problem.

You're very quick to state that there is a difference between a riot and rebellion, but who makes that distinction? Those in power, that's who.

And as for voting...

When you have two potential candidates chosen already, when you cannot decide between one ruler and another because their attitudes are almost identical on every vital point, where is the impetus to vote?

When you and I both know that whoever takes that office will merely be another puppet of the same corrupt system, why bother?

I used to say the same thing about voting power, and then I woke up to the realization that "democracy" as we know it doesn't really exist, it's a smokescreen designed to give the impression that the people control their nation. They don't, corporations and big business do. If you haven't seen the evidence of that during the last year, you must have been living under a rock.

The opportunities to rebel are diminishing with each new law being passed by every western government. It won't be "rebellion" when a resistance arrives to overthrow the police state, it'll be a "terrorist organization" with all the government-created propaganda thrown in.

Just as the French resistance were deemed to be a terrorist group by the Nazi's, any opposition to western government will soon be labeled in the same way.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by jfj123

 

After that point, the fans should have stopped until it was sorted out. That's where the fans went wrong. They became just as bad as the "personnel" who tried to subdue the guy.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

You don't have to BECOME them to beat them-figuratively.
No sense lowering themselves down to the security/police's level.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby becomes a monster"
"If you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you"

Originally posted by lunarminer
I once brought up the same quote that you used in an American History class and asked the instructor (A PhD in history) why we haven't had a rebellion since the Civil War. Her response was profound.

Her response didn't change the meaning of the words, IMO. To suggest that voting has ANY true affect on the status quo makes me question your teachers motives. They let us vote when they want to and only to make us feel important, just like letting your child hold the hose for a second when you wash the car. If they don't agree with an outcome, they just disregard the vote and tell the people they don't know what's good for them. Happens all the time. But I do agree with the last thing she said, people don't have the balls to do what really is needed. But PLEASE don't try and sugarcoat our current situation by saying all we need to do is vote, that's not how things really work. Rattlesnakes don't vote...

reply to post by 27jd


Agreed. Voices shouting their opinions mean nothing to these people, anywhere in the World. We vote, they work against us, people think they vote in change, they work against us. From across Europe to America it's the same trend. Every once in a while you need to strike back with force, to remind those corrupted abusers in power who really holds power and force.

This is great, the people fighting back against tyranny is a good thing. Think if you were in that mans shoes, getting hit 3 or more times ON the ground with all these people around. You would be wishing for the help. There is police brutality everywhere, maybe people are finally getting sick of it. For being where it was and what happen it was very tame. There have been bigger and badder thing happen because of peoples team loosing the dumb game. Yes the man should not be running across the field but come on he had a sign and was doing something that's been done many many times before him. I feel this was a great thing, the line in the sand is there and police did cross it. Action, reaction remember that.

DK

Talk about synchronicity... (this just happened last week)

So I have a younger brother, he is 25. And he can be a bit of an ass at times.
He is a big boy 6ft 7" and about 240 pounds. Anyway he and his friends are having a night out downtown they get in to an altercation with a cab driver, one of my brothers friends starts kicking the cab (I know Idiot) The cab driver gets out with an ice scraper and starts swinging it at the guy that kicked his cab.
This I can understand and honestly up till now I am 100% with the cab driver on this.
Then the cab driver swings it at my brother and breaks it over his arm and head. Again I am still with the cabbie on this, he didnt know how was causing the trouble (I hope) Well my brother knocks the cabbie on his ass and I can see his point also.
My brother and his friends take off and they make it about 4 blocks before the cops surround them.
My brother tells me he offered no resistance whatsoever and yet they kicked the crap out of him. Lying face down and handcuffed one of the cops kicked the back of his head in to the ground leaned over and said
"your not so tough now are you"

Point being some...not all but some of the people that choose to be cops are c$%&*suckers, cowards if you will.
I am not proud of myself for enjoying that vid but I am not ashamed to admit that I did.
I liked the vid because it restores my faith in the average person, in that when people see gross violations and abuse of authority they do react, we do have breaking points and limits.

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

First I didnt read every post becuase some are going off in a whole different direction.

I have been a police officer trained to handle that type of thing and from the VIDEO (which can be deciving) it looks like one office is using the right amount of force to compel complance (thats what the law says, in the US anyway) The office jabbing him with the stick is not going crazy and is not using everything he had to hit him. I know it looks bad but it is not as rough as you think.

One reason the other officer told him to stop is becuase he or another office was about to put cuffs on or because they were then going to try again to pull his arms out to cuff him.

What the crowd did was 100% wrong

Alot of you have no idea what it is like to be a cop. You are loved one min and hated the next. Just for doing your job.

You all think that these cops are in on the big NWO secret and are all for a police state? Why you think most of cops become cops? Its to HELP and make a difference.

Alot of you should walk a mile in somebody elses shoes before you pass judgement.

Now I also understand that if, after the investagtion, they are found guilty of excessive force that they should be punished but not by a crowd of people reacting to their emotions and not intellagence.

Thegear

reply to post by thegear


What law was this man in violation of? Since you are referring to U.S. laws, tell me what law he would have been in violation of in the U.S. that would warrant 4 men holding him down like an animal and forcing his submission? Reason and Logic would tell me that this man posed no threat to anyone so why not let him run his little march and then when he tires escort him away?

It is only natural that you would defend your profession. Maybe you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

reply to post by Rockpuck


They have alot of people scared that if we rise up, they will nuke us all or put everybody in camps. People don't truly understand those in power and watch too many movies. WE are the very basis of their power, without us they would be nothing. The only way they truly control us is through manipulation and redirection of our attention. The super wealthy m-f'ers need us to stay wealthy, because there is no money or hookers on yachts in a wasteland, and we all know they won't do any work themselves. What do people think would happen if the government were to somehow convince the military to turn on their own families and friends? Do they think our enemies will just sit around and not take advantage of the US in that kind of weakened state? Those in power would lose everything they had, and they know that. That's why they try so hard to pretend they are listening to us, but they obviously know we're stupid enough as a whole to keep manipulating us. Manipulation is the only way abusers continue to abuse.

Originally posted by thegear
Alot of you have no idea what it is like to be a cop. You are loved one min and hated the next. Just for doing your job.

That's the way it goes when you choose a job in which you enforce UNJUST and ARCHAIC laws in which there are NO victims except the person being arrested, laws put in place not to protect anybody, but to protect profits and ensure tax money keeps flowing in so those at the top can skim off the top. The people that make the laws you enforce, IGNORE our will and make you their henchmen. Your job used to be watching over us, now you watch us. Sorry, but your job now ruins far more lives than it saves...

Oh the Moral Cowardry...

IT makes me WEEP.

Would you rather have the moral high ground in a cell, or lower yourself to the animalistic actions of your opponent and be free.

Have you ever read Hamlet?

Here... let me spell it out for you:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.


This is precisely what Hamlet is talking about... the justification for Cowardry by moral means.

All of your arguments about not stooping to your enemies levels are patently absurd...

And I can prove that quite easily.

We *HAVE* cops.


Police officers are the collective Agreement to stoop to the use of force, instead of maintaining the moral high ground.

Because there are some people who just don't give a damn about your morals, and they will beat the hell out of you, *UNLESS YOU STOP THEM*

No arguments, no discussions, and no moral points will stop those who resort to force.


The question *IS* would you rather keep the moral high ground while your enemy FLATTENS you....

OR

Would you rather cast off your morals, momentarily as it were, and PREVENT your enemy from attacking you.


Morals be Damned (pardon my french)


-Edrick

Originally posted by lunarminer
... She replied that the public has a chance to rebel against the status quo every election day. ...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your "PHD history professor" is both ignorant and lacks logical thinking.

Here is a part of the quote again: "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. "

If she is correct, how does voting cause "lives lost"? How does voting cause "blood" to "manure" the "tree of liberty"?

No, Jefferson was CLEARLY talking about an armed rebellion. Otherwise, why would there be a need to PARDON the people involved?

You have been tricked into thinking you "rebel" by voting. No. That's NOT what Jefferson meant (though that IS what the establishment WANTS you to think).

Again, if Jefferson meant peaceful "rebellion", why would there be "lives lost", "blood", and "pardons"?

reply to post by mblahnikluver


I disagree, the law needs to understand that the people will fight back, this is good

Four cops and one man. Why is it that police use their weapons when they don't need to? Did he really have to use his club? I've seen tasers used inappropriately. Guns pulled out and accidentally fired and some purposely. Four cop with eight legs/knees, eight arms against two arms two legs. The cops were wrong on this one. The crowd acted and the police were hurt, innocent people were hurt and the runner got away. That's not much of justice either. But the police had it coming and they're lucky it wasn't worse. An angry crowd is not what you want when you're trying to subdue someone.

Originally posted by thegear
First I didnt read every post becuase some are going off in a whole different direction.

I have been a police officer trained to handle that type of thing and from the VIDEO (which can be deciving) it looks like one office is using the right amount of force to compel complance (thats what the law says, in the US anyway) The office jabbing him with the stick is not going crazy and is not using everything he had to hit him. I know it looks bad but it is not as rough as you think.

The big question is, was it necessary???
There were 4 large men already holding him down.
Just curious but have you ever been hit with a nightstick, butt end like that? It doesn't take much of a movement to do a lot of damage.

What the crowd did was 100% wrong

The officers ESCALATED the situation instead of DE-ESCALATING. The crowd saw 4 against 1 a man being beaten with a nightstick and they thought that, as usual, the police were using excessive force so they stopped them. They should not have done anything else after stopping the BEATING.
Let's be honest, you know as well as anyone, that police brutality has gotten out of control.
Police in general seem to have gotten a bad attitude toward the general public. They have forgotten something very important. TO PROTECT AND SERVE.
I'm a genuinely nice person, well groomed, fairly well spoken, very polite, etc..
I routinely run into police in various public places, such as diners, donut shops, etc.. and have held doors for them, said hello, have a nice day, etc... and have only gotten dirty looks. Never a, "you too", "thanks" etc...
So what's with all the hostility???

Alot of you have no idea what it is like to be a cop. You are loved one min and hated the next. Just for doing your job.

Well that's not exactly true.
If you're just doing your job, most people respect that.
If I were to get pulled over for speeding, I might not be happy about it, but I know what I was doing was wrong and in that case, the officer was just doing their job. No problem.
When I'm harassed by a cop for being in my truck in a place my truck can legally be, I have a problem.
When I'm given a speeding ticket and a no seat belt ticket and both were fraudulent, I have a problem.
When someone is beaten over running on the field during a soccer game with a sign, there is a problem.

You all think that these cops are in on the big NWO secret and are all for a police state? Why you think most of cops become cops? Its to HELP and make a difference.

But then why don't they ?
In the end, police are seen in a negative light due to all the negative things that they have done. Some officers are great and really care, but some don't. And those that don't, stand out and ruin it for the rest. Every police officer represents every other police officer in everything that he or she does. Is it fair? NO, but that's the way it is.

Alot of you should walk a mile in somebody elses shoes before you pass judgement.

I'll be the first one to say that police officers, soldiers and firemen should be among the highest paid personnel in the US BUT, because the police wield such authority, they must be held to a very high standard and they're not.

Now I also understand that if, after the investagtion, they are found guilty of excessive force that they should be punished but not by a crowd of people reacting to their emotions and not intellagence.

The crowd didn't want to wait and see what was going to happen next. They didn't want to see this man die for carrying a sign onto a soccer field then wait for an investigation to see if anything is done.
YES, ABSOLUTELY the fans took it way too far. No question. That being said, you can't ask people to just stand by and watch someone being beaten.

Just to be VERY clear, I'm not saying all or even most officers are bad but enough are so that they all do look bad.

That being said, who isn't nervous when a cop pulls behind you in traffic? Why is that? In my case, I don't speed. I do my best to keep my vehicle in proper working order. It's a newer vehicle. I follow traffic laws, etc.... Yet I get nervous that I'm going to get pulled over and screwed over somehow. Who here hasn't worried about this themselves?????

If I am hit once without provocation, I will not hit back once. I will drop the attacker.


Why violence might be necessary.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It was unnecessary, a punch to the face is a technique a bouncer would use on a drunken after holding them down to the floor in order to induce an adrenaline rush/make the subduee 'snap out of it' or think twice about trying to fight back - but only if it was a one against one scenario which this obviously was not.

Try this out, lay on the floor and hook your arms under you. Have your friends try and pull them apart. You should (if your trying half way hard) find that it is difficult to pull them apart. The tactic they used was how they were trained if they are found to misuse their training then they should be punished.

What I am saying is dont be so quick to judge without all the facts.

So the cops do their jobs, hold down a guy (maybe a little too force is used)and the crowd comes it and starts beating the guy on the ground and kicking in the melon. Is that not a little excessive? Who is held accountable if the cop is hurt or do we call it even?

Also the cops also have to think about worst case possiblity, we all know sports fans can be crazy and IF this guy is a nutjob and wants to wear his favorite soccer players face around town they have to control that person.

Do a sreach on police tactics and see if it proves that these cops acted unjustly or over the top.

Edit for more info/


[edit on 6-4-2009 by thegear]

reply to post by Blundo


Over a Soccer Game? What a bunch of children!

This has nothing to do with the NWO. Who gives a crap about out of control sports fans. They deserve what they get. How many have died at Soccer Games?

As to the brutality. That cop was pulling his punches. Watch his elbow. You do that when you want to control somebody and NOT hurt them. You can not see what that crazy fan is doing or if they had a reason.

Why would this be on the NWO forum?

Originally posted by jfj123
That being said, who isn't nervous when a cop pulls behind you in traffic? Why is that? In my case, I don't speed. I do my best to keep my vehicle in proper working order. It's a newer vehicle. I follow traffic laws, etc.... Yet I get nervous that I'm going to get pulled over and screwed over somehow. Who here hasn't worried about this themselves?????

I feel the same way. Everything on my vehicle is legit and my heart still races when they're behind me, you know they are sizing you up for the takedown and you never know if a tail light is out and you're gonna get hassled. It's like sharks swimming through a school of fish looking for an easy meal, just predatory.