Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubbl

Originally posted by SLAYER69
How long after the crash was that picture taken?
Dont try to tell us the day after

OK, I won't. Unbelievably enough, it was taken on 9/11.

Description: Flight93Crash.jpg

United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Criminal No. 01-455-A Prosecution Trial Exhibits Exhibit Number P200057 Description - Photograph of the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed; Resized and slightly retouched to improve quality

Date: 11 September 2001 (2001-09-11)
Author: U.S. Government

en.wikipedia.org...:Flight93Crash.jpg#filehistory

reply to post by SLAYER69


All the images are from September 11 as stated during the Kangaroo Court hearing of Zacarias Moussaoui.









Yep, that's what a staged aircraft crash looks like people, in case you're wondering.
Note the distinctive lack of any debris or remains identifying that an aircraft indeed crashed there.

This is what real aircraft impacts look like:















[edit on 7/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Well done SLAYER69 - you're conviction that it could not possibly be a photo of the crash scene taken on 9/11 is entirely understandable. However, your government presents as it as evidence of the crash of flight 93.

Your post reminded me of tide88, when he was first introduced to video of WTC 7 collapsing: "just watched that video above. When it shows that first building being demolished it is completly different then the world trade centers collapse. That build just falls no debris or smoke coming out of each floor, and it is obviously falling a lot faster. I can watch that video and without doing any math I can tell that one is a controlled demolition, and the trade center is not."

When GoldenFleece told him he was watching WTC 7, tide88 came back unabashed, with "you guys are praying it is a conspiracy because you think the government is all bad and covers everything up." He remains in denial to this day.

SLAYER69 - please prove you are of sterner stuff. Take on board what this means. Have the courage to accept that the official 9/11 narrative is much more problematic the mainstream media would have you believe.

What about the AGM-86 ALCM missle series? Do you think people would see this and mistaken it for a plane if traveling at high speeds? Check out the wiki link below and look at the pics. At high speeds, IMO, could easily be mistakened for a plane and it's built by Boeing.

Wikipedia

The small, winged AGM-86B/C missile is powered by a Williams F107 turbofan jet engine that propels it at sustained subsonic speeds and can be launched from both high and low altitudes. After launch, the missile's folded wings, tail surfaces and engine inlet deploy. The nuclear AGM-86B is then able to fly complicated routes to a target through use of a terrain contour-matching guidance system (TERCOM). The conventionally armed AGM-86C uses an onboard Global Positioning System (GPS) coupled with its inertial navigation system (INS) to fly. This allows the missile to guide itself to the target with pinpoint accuracy. Litton Guidance and Control, and Interstate Electronics Corp. were the guidance contractors for the C-model.

Perhaps what hit the Pentagon as well?

Edited to add that I am referring only to the staged crash of flight 93 and the Pentagon in regards to this missle being used.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by Kratos1220]

Again, a thread derailed....AWESOME

Originally posted by esdad71
Again, a thread derailed....AWESOME

Guilty. My apologies for contributing to that. It's easy to get off topic on 9-11 threads.

reply to post by Kratos1220


It was a consensus. It is sad really. There are some great minds and theories that are present but they all lead to the same thing. Like going out drinking with someone who you know will act like a fool but you do it anyways because you have conviction in your own thought.

If we could just apply the power of those who defend "their" truth to their local communities I wonder if true change could be here within the decade.

You ain't talkin to me buddy.
But seriously,back on topic,this purported evidence demands a re examination.And don't try to give the old been eight years,let it go already.They don't give up on murder investigations,or would this be yet another curious anomoly singular to that day.

From what I've seen in the last 7 and a half years, there has been a systematic tracking of 19 Muslim terrorists on the 9/11 planes, their planning and funding sources, and thousands of objective experts in peer review who have contributed to explaining the extraordinary circumstances that lead to the 3 WTC buildings collapsing. Thousands of hours of corroborating eyewitness reports and video, mostly from ordinary citizens. A long and detailed paper trail leading back to Middle Eastern governments and banking institutions.

Those denying that it happened the way it generally reported, are still analyzing photos and Youtube videos. They haven't come up with substantial number of credible whistleblowers, though there should potentially be thousands, or a paper trail of letters, emails, reported conversations, specifically naming government or CIA or Mossad or whoever agents complicit in the planning and execution.

As in a court case, it's easy to pick away at evidence and testimony.
Full information is not always available or out of context and questions can be raised. But there is such a thing as weight of evidence. There is in my opinion, and that of may others, an overwhelming amount of evidence that the US was hit hard and with impunity on Sept 11, 2001, by foreign nationals.

Here in Canada and other countries I visit, most people just shake their head when the topic comes up. The US is successfully attacked, thousands die, and there are Americans running around in circles pointing fingers at each other.


Mike

It seems to me that the "alternative" media has been heavily infiltrated by disinfo agents spreading disinfo so that the real facts stay buried with the WTC. Impossible theories continue to flourish on the net to discredit the truthers and send them on wild goose chases. Intelligence probably funded the Bentham study.

neurocritic.blogspot.com...

[edit on 8-4-2009 by the_eighth_tower]

[edit on 8-4-2009 by the_eighth_tower]

[edit on 8-4-2009 by the_eighth_tower]

just 'cause you payed to play, doesn't mean you are wrong and your study is invalid.

LOL! debunkers.

gunther-eysenbach.blogspot.com...

I think the US government and it's intelligence agencies are capable of terrible deeds.

But when you start accusing people and agencies of treason you need evidence not speculation and theories.

Paraphrasing another ATS member, just for starters evidence of controlled demolition of the WTC buildings would require:

Naming anyone involve in the planning, providing dates, and places.

Naming anyone who supplied and installed explosives, detonation devices, the type and quantity specifics

A paper trail consisting of any combination of letters, emails, written notes, invoices, purchase orders, etc.

Testimony with corroborating evidence from anyone involved, witnessing or having reliable information.

Playing armchair James Bond uncovering world destruction plots as exposed by talk radio show hosts and their DVDs, amateurish websites, and Youtube analysis has become a popular sport.

Serious investigators spend months travelling to sites, interviewing dozens of witnesses and officials, reading through thousands of pages of documents and professional analysis, before drawing tentative conclusions.

Maybe what's called the Official version isn't the final word. But a lot of people from a lot of countries made their best effort to properly track the perpetrators and assemble evidence.

Going on 8 years we're all still waiting for the equally well documented and countering Unofficial version.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael
Going on 8 years we're all still waiting for the equally well documented and countering Unofficial version.

You clearly haven't bothered to read any of the papers put forth by Dr. Stephen Jones.

How many books about 9/11 have you read?

Have you researched the background of the NIST team members and the extent of those member's past participation in the development of nanoenergetics?
(*there is a conflict of interest here, does that worry you?)

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1


You clearly haven't bothered to read any of the papers put forth by Dr. Stephen Jones.

How many books about 9/11 have you read?

Have you researched the background of the NIST team members and the extent of those member's past participation in the development of nanoenergetics?
(*there is a conflict of interest here, does that worry you?)

The Italian researcher Enrico Manieri has demonstrated under controlled conditions with ste-by-step pictures the merits of the many thermite speculations.

11-settembre.blogspot.com...


Without wanting to get adversarial, I could also provide a very long list of books I'm pretty sure you haven't read either.

I can also ask you if you've researched the backgrounds of the all the people you would claim as authoritative sources?

I've read maybe a dozen books on 9/11, a couple only in parts, but many articles as well.

I worked as a journalist for years, published a peer review scientic jounal, and when possible open lines of dialogue with authors to ask them specifics on points they've made.

I don't consider NIST to be perfect and I'm sure it has quite a few errors and misjudgements.

While people love to shoot wholes in government or popular media sources, as a whole the Truth community gets off light. Critics are labeled debunkers, and the band keeps playing on to it’s enraptured audience. There are few motivated to systematically address all their claims and disprove them one by one.

There is little in the way of thank you, financial reward or any real incentive to do so. Who would pay $19.95 for a DVD proving that 9/11 was NOT an inside job?

A whole sub-culture with shelves of self-referential literature have amassed in the past few years. Many conjectures and much misinformation has become woven into a fabric that is slowly petrifying into dogma.

This is unfortunate. There are many outstanding questions on how much foreknowledge certain factions of the US adminstration and intelligence community had about what happened on 9/11.

But there is no movement for people like myself and many of my friends who want to know the full truth, but are skeptical of many of those who claim the Official version is fiction.

We've seen the agenda driven, sometimes blatant distortions and bending of facts by so many aligned with the Truth Movement.

Stuff like the No Planes Theory, False Flag Operation, Mossad collusion, mega insurance scams, holograms, substituted rockets, are entertaining to read, but their simple-mindedness and distortion of something so serious in the end discredits the Truth Movement.

Gotta stop there ... 5 AM and I didn’t mean to be ups so late.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael

What evidence?Where is all the steel which would conclusively prove thermate or not?"International teams assembling evidence" actually means some nameless illiterate ship breaker in China or India ,who could probably tell a thing or two about it PHD or no.

reply to post by mmiichael

They haven't come up with substantial number of credible whistleblowers, though there should potentially be thousands,

Thousands.... ALL within the Government, the Defence Department AND the Intelligence Organs of the United States.

Men who know how to keep their mouths shut.

There have been about 5 or 6 prominent CIA "whistleblowers" in the organization's entire history.

And these men got into trouble simply for publishing biographical accounts of their careers.

That should give you a clue as to how well they can keep the lid on their people.

Confidentiality agreements, security clearances, compartmentalisation, deliberate smokescreens and ambiguity all make for some very frightened and confused employees that would not dare speak out.

Indeed murder is not beyond any of these agencies to silence dissent or defection. If they can kill foreign leaders abroad with impunity, domestic dissidents should be no problem.

Refer to my previous post of a long list of ethically reprehensible, American operations never made public.

Where does this notion come from that "X incident must have had Y number of people involved, hence SOMEONE should have said something by now".
Where?

Look at human nature for god's sake, human beings are excellent liars. The average person says between 40-80 lies per day.

We're lied to on a daily basis by big corporations, education institutions, the media, hell even our parents did it.

[edit on 8/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

I suspect the 'samples' from the start !
the sample taker, the samples taken, the sites of the samples, the week between samples....

the report does not verify that the 'Manhatten resident'
samples all contained the substance or were other samples also tested?

the resident, kept these samples in a secure place all these years?
or could the samples been doctored?


this is no proof of anything
it reeks of disinformation & TrueSpeak

~from the RAW STORY site~

...in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center," reads the paper's abstract.
"One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower,
two the next day,
and a fourth about a week later.
The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC)."


The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers.
Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away.


They claim their analysis has uncovered "active thermitic material": a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as "nanostructured super-thermite."

Let's see what's buried at the WTC debris site 'Fresh Kills' landfill...
and compare the recently found thermite, in 4 samples, at 4 sites, over a period of a week... with the 500,000 tons of debris in a virtual time-capsule

...within hours of the collapse of the towers, Fresh Kills was called out of retirement and put back to work.
Its gates reopened to receive a very special cargo- hundreds of thousands of tons of debris from the wreckage of the World Trade Center. In the last ten weeks, Fresh Kills has received over 500,000 tons of debris from the destruction in downtown Manhattan.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by St Udio]

reply to post by esdad71


Has anyone questionned what the alloy mixture was for the alluminum beams and such used in the construction of the towers. If I understand correctly, not all the beams were steel.

The reason I ask is that, to my knowledge, magnesium is often used as a alloy with alluminum. This would answer the the "why" to the question of how the temperatures could have reached so high as to melt all the metal.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by palg1]

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

They haven't come up with substantial number of credible whistleblowers, though there should potentially be thousands,

Thousands.... ALL within the Government, the Defense Department AND the Intelligence Organs of the United States.

Men who know how to keep their mouths shut.

There have been about 5 or 6 prominent CIA "whistleblowers" in the organization's entire history.

And these men got into trouble simply for publishing biographical accounts of their careers.

That should give you a clue as to how well they can keep the lid on their people.

Confidentiality agreements, security clearances, compartmentalisation, deliberate smokescreens and ambiguity all make for some very frightened and confused employees that would not dare speak out.

Indeed murder is not beyond any of these agencies to silence dissent or defection. If they can kill foreign leaders abroad with impunity, domestic dissidents should be no problem.

Refer to my previous post of a long list of ethically reprehensible, American operations never made public.

....

Look at human nature for god's sake, human beings are excellent liars. The average person says between 40-80 lies per day.

We're lied to on a daily basis by big corporations, education institutions, the media, hell even our parents did it.

Without wanting to turn this into one of those 9/11 shouting matches, the topic was whether there is evidence of a controlled demolition inside job.

I'm not defending the US government or it's agencies, but what the US government has done in the past and what people can be like are not the issues at hand

I said there would have to be some sort of substantiated paper trail. Even secretive or lying individuals have meetings, make phone calls, send letters, do invoices, etc, etc. This is the kind of material any judicial system requires as evidence for a prosecution. A person’s testimony can only go so far. For all kinds of reasons people withhold the truth, tell lies, claim unreliable memories, etc.

Every year I become more skeptical of the Truth movement as just more explanations are piled on as to why their evidence is still lacking. I know, I know - scared government employees, intimidated witnesses, destroyed material evidence, government control of information, etc.

Tracking down the Middle Eastern parties some of whom have confessed, required the same kind of investigating and requirement of material proof. We now have a solid paper trail of meetings, conversations, banking transactions, material purchases, etc.

As I can’t help but notice, after so many years the truth seeking counter investigation is still literally sifting through the rubble rather than working on providing a substantiated paper trail.

The genesis of this thread is a box of dust that has shown up with traces of thermite in it. We’re not even sure who provided it or whether it has been tampered with.

That to me gives some indication as to where it's all at.


Mike








[edit on 8-4-2009 by mmiichael]