Chávez Denounces Obama as 'Ignorant'

Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Sean Penn is one of the only actors that I don't mind seeing speak up on these issues.
He has genuine passion.

And he is usually spot-on in his analysis, at least from my perspective.

Well he certainly had passion when he was beating Madonna.

He has visited Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran, and buddied up with anyone he can find who hates his birth nation. Only North Korea has yet to make his list (because they don't know who he is) and Afghanistan (because the Taliban would kill him).

In the post Katrina aftermath he turned up with a rented photographer to take snaps of him "rescuing" people.

I don't even think he has had a formal college education, but he thinks he's smart enough to be involved in world politics.

The situation with Obama and Chavez must be incredibly confusing for him, he's just another liberal who is lost now that he can't blame Bush for everything.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by Retseh]

Gotta hand it to you - you always know how to see through the BS and call it like it is. Star for your post. Sean Penn and George Clooney both strike me as the opportunistic types when it comes to politics - the next Olbermann wannabe's if they had their way.

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by Ownification

 

Nah, don't worry. I'm not going to justify my opinions to you.

So it is your opinion that he is a dictator, how can you have an opinion without justifying it. Terrorists have more justification than you. When they kill they kill because of the sufferings of their brothers under Western backed dictators. You in the other hands can't justify calling Chavez a dictator that is why you don't want to justify it to me.

People like you are as bad as the terrorists who just believe what ever they hear from their elders, the difference is that instead of elders you believe your leaders.

reply to post by TheAmused

Chávez Denounces Obama as 'Ignorant'

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Maybe he'll say something derogatory about Pelosi.

I'm no lover of Chavez, but even a broken clock is right twice a day ( just saw the post above ). That's the case this time, but with obama's diplomatic track record so far (snubbing the British and the French, plus having his peace overtures thrown back in his face by the Russians and Iranians), I'll have to admit even Chavez is right every once in awhile.

[edit on 3/23/2009 by centurion1211]

Chavez is a threat and must be demonised because he's standing up to the US.

Hooray for Hugo.

Those who cite Chomsky are right to do so. The US has ripped off every nation south of its borders for over a century. Remember what General Smedley Butler said?

"I spent thirty-three years and four months in active service in the
country's most agile military force, the Marines. I served in all ranks from
second lieutenant to major general. And during that period I spent most of
my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

"I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it.
Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought
until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended
animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with
everyone in the military service.

"Thus I helped make Mexico, and especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the raping of half-a-dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers and Co. in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

"During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medals, and promotion. Looking back on it, I feel that I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate a racket in three city districts. The Marines operated on three continents."

source

Those of you who've done some research might note that Brown Brothers had something to do with the rise of the Bush dynasty and Averell Harriman.

Of course, sending in the Marines, or organising a coup, as Bush tried - and so spectacularly failed - in 2002, isn't by any means the only option. These days they send in economic hit men:

Google video - confessions of an economic hit man

Does Obama know about all this? Probably.

Does Chaves? Oh, you betcha.

But if Obama behaves like it's not going on, he's behaving like an ignoramus and deserves to be called out on it.

Originally posted by rich23
Does Obama know about all this? Probably.

Does Chaves? Oh, you betcha.

But if Obama behaves like it's not going on, he's behaving like an ignoramus and deserves to be called out on it.

I actually have my money on the position that he really doesnt know. Not that thats any excuse. I think the corporate interests deliberately choose their Presidential candidates for their lack of knowledge. Bush, because he just wasnt that much of a world class thinker, and Obama has more potential in that direction but he is incredibly naive. A babe in the political woods with the ability to make a pretty good speech.

When they chose him to be the President, (I knew he would be even when they were still pretending there was a campaign) I knew we were in trouble. For them to need someone so popular, and naive, I suspected we were about to get really reamed domestically. You use a Bush type candidate for war, because he has that "lets get em boys" kind of attitude. You use an Obama candidate to make enormous changes at home, when you need the well educated to swallow the bitter pill.

I expected, and still expect, something along the lines of the Amero, or some strong move to a North American Union, or something of that nature. The combination of the "crisis" in the economy and our noble (perhaps sincerely) and naive President can not be good for us domestically. Whatever they have going, it is still to come. It wasnt the bailout, they could have pushed that through with anyone, and I suspect the "cause" for this new policy we have yet to see, was designed to come before Obama took office so that we can all believe him when he tells us "This is not my fault, and I know it will be difficult for us all to make this transition, but the economic crisis has changed the world, and we have to change too to stay in the game." Obama is here to sugar coat something that is very bad for us. And they havent yet told us what it is, its not the bailout, the bailout and collapse is the opportunity to make it all happen much like 9-11 enabled their long desired war. Thats my gut instinct. I hope I am wrong.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Well said professor! When you are right, you are right! I truly believe Chavez
is a sociopath, but even a "nut job" like that sees Obama for who he is.

Reese Witherspoon was on Jay Leno last Wednesday.

Barrack Obama was on the show Thursday.

Seth Rogan was on the show Friday.

The guy reads from a TelePrompTer.

He's not ignorant, he's just readin the scripts and collectin his chips.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I actually have my money on the position that he really doesnt know. Not that thats any excuse.

The propensity for citizens of the US to believe their own hype never ceases to amaze me, and it's possible that BO really thinks that the past 8 years have been an aberration rather than a slightly more blatant "business as usual".

However, my initial impression of Obama - and it's not as if I've had any reason to change it - is that he's essentially an empty suit: the first speech I ever saw him make seemed more than usually content-free. He's someone who wants that position, why I don't know, because it doesn't look as if he has any coherent idea of what he wants.

...Bush, because he just wasnt that much of a world class thinker

Good job I wasn't drinking my tea when I read that... would have been a proper nose trick all over the keyboard

A babe in the political woods with the ability to make a pretty good speech.

I just don't think you get to be in that position AND still retain your naivete. Apart from anything else, he had his briefing from the Bilderbergers, didn't he? When they put all the press on his plane and he didn't get on board? That's not a trick pulled by a babe in the woods imo.

For them to need someone so popular, and naive, I suspected we were about to get really reamed domestically.

Yup. Just grip the back of the chair and bend over for Uncle Sam...

It wasnt the bailout, they could have pushed that through with anyone...

Interesting. Yeah, Bush was getting away with it but perhaps because everyone knew it was his last gasp and just wanted BO to get in ASAP. With you on the NAU/Amero thing. I'm curious as to what the UK is going to do... we've resisted the Euro - foolishly, imo, because it's been a good solid currency - but having had the idea planted in my head by the "blackjack" strip that we could go with the Amero, it's difficult to shake it off.

Obama is here to sugar coat something that is very bad for us. And they havent yet told us what it is, its not the bailout,

I agree about his role, but I think the collapse is pretty central to what's going to happen. I think it'll be a combination of things and I think the consolidation of fewer and fewer banks and corporations is going to proceed.

I wonder how many citizens will be chipped by 2012?

[edit on 24-3-2009 by rich23]

Originally posted by rich23

I just don't think you get to be in that position AND still retain your naivete. Apart from anything else, he had his briefing from the Bilderbergers, didn't he? When they put all the press on his plane and he didn't get on board? That's not a trick pulled by a babe in the woods imo.

You could be right, I wont deny that. I just think of it this way.

If you are recruiting for your cult, do you send the con artist fake guru out to do the recruiting? Or do you send his wildest and blindest folllowers out to do it? True believers beget true believers. Con artists can too, but some people just get that funny feeling when they are being lied to. A true believer doesnt have to lie. They are sold on the issue too.

Obama comes from a very liberal family. From an incredibly liberal state, Hawaii. (I grew up there myself) The issues he has worked on, the thinking of his wife, etc., there is just no way I can reconcile myself that he knows he is being used to do the kinds of things we are discussing. Undermining the US Constitution in a fatal way.

And he didnt have much big political experience. I doubt they would have allowed him to win an election had he had more time to see the underbelly of politics in the big leagues. Because he is intelligent. He is just idealistic, and naive, and arrogant. I think he thinks he is too smart to get manipulated, but I think he is wrong. These guys are world class at what they do. He cant possibly read everything that comes in front of him to sign. He has to put faith in other people and their word, and that is where they will get him.

There are too many issues right now, coming too fast and too urgently, and he will need to count on the expertise of the experts that will gladly guide him. And these experts are the same people who have been waiting for this chance to gut the Constitution and give birth to the NAU Inc. He is outclassed, and out gunned, and people believe him because he believes it himself.

I could be wrong. But I am a pretty good judge of character and Obama seems to me to be a sincerely nice guy. Candidates here in the US are only picked based on their saleability and salesmanship. Not because they are expected to really run the show. All they have to do is win, and keep us from revolting while in office by smooth talking us or getting us all patriotically fired up.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I am more inclined to lean the other way here.
Afterall, he was a constitutional law professor. Make no mistake, he knows these things are detrimental to the document. In fact, in that 60 Minutes interview, he was asked pointedly if he thought, being a constitutional law professor, that the legislation passed to tax exec. bonuses was unconstitutional.

He completely ignored the question.

He knows what he is doing.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I used to think I was a good judge of character. Then I had a job interview a couple of years ago, nailed it, walked out thinkng the boss was a really nice guy. He turned out to be an evil manippo-head cretin from hell.

Maybe you're a better judge. But right from the start I didn't trust Obama. Anyone who could stand up and give the speech I saw - bland, content free yet somehow uplifting if you weren't listening too carefully (which the audience, desperate for change, wasn't) - is a deeply cynical human being.

Love Hawaii, though. I don't much care for the US as a place to live, but Hawaii's the only place I might, given the choice. Maui in particular.

In terms of what you think might be "the big one" that BO's there to sell to everyone, I've just been browsing this thread which is interesting. Some people are disparaging the source but the scenario might well be accurate.

Someone also links this truly scary video.

I had no idea things were so far advanced.

To both Jay-in-AR and Rich23, you both could absolutely be right.

I do think I am a good judge of character, but I would be lying through my teeth if I said I had not been wrong before. I have, and I probably will again.

You both bring up very good points.

I guess we will just have to see how it all plays out. I dont know if we will ever know for certain if he knew ahead of time what he was doing when he signed up or not, but maybe we will. I would certainly like to know.

I got a really bad feeling when I saw him speak too, but I attributed it differently. I just figured if they were busting out Mr. Nice Guy, we were really gonna get reamed this time. You hide nasty tasting medicine is a sugar coating. You make rat poison taste yummy to rats.

The Constitutional Law thing is a very good point, though. Even if he didnt know why they picked him, and had no idea what he was getting into, he will have absolutely no excuse for pushing it through once he sees it.

I cut W. a lot of slack, in terms of what he did and didnt know, because he clearly isnt a sharp guy. But if Obama pushes through a Constitutional killer, he deserves no slack at all. He is smart, and no matter what he knew or didnt know when he signed up, he will be fully responsible for what happens to our Constitution on his watch.

Thanks for the links too, I am off to see them now.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

President Obama was the senior lecturer at the University of Chicago Law school and he taught constitutional law classes....

He knows the constitution ALOT better than you think and many people give him credit for.

This is what makes Obama an even scarier president than Bush. If you're correct and Obama knows the constitution better than we think (for god's sake, I would hope the president of the USA knows it's constitution), then his treading on the constitutional rights of American citizens is that much more blatant, purposeful and "in spite" of the constitution.

Basically, he tramples on the constitution with no care whatsoever.