Teens Could Spend 25 Years in Prison for Allegedly Torturing Cat, Setting It on Fire

Originally posted by chise61

I'm terribly sorry if it offends you that my sense of humor does not include finding humor in the suffering of animals, not everyone can be cold hearted. Yes things do happen to animals every day, but there is no comparison in the actions of a person catching fish to eat, and a person holding a cat down, dousing it with lighter fluid and starting it on fire for fun.

Not offended at all! You just don't come off as a very lighthearted type of person, but i'm all for individuality! We need serious people on earth! But i won't cry over Ticks

Maybe for the same reason that you throw in the aspect of a fisherman's way of catching a fish. We both know there is no similarity between that and holding a cat down and setting it on fire for fun.

Well there actually is... Here let me try :

1. Both cause tremendous pain to the animal.
2. Both cause mental distress and fear in the animal.
3. Both are basically pretty cruel to the animal and you wouldn't want it happening to your mother.

Now what's not so similar about it ? Let's try shall we :

1. The pain is caused in 2 different areas of the animal.
2. The pain might feel different, but in the end having to choose from beeing lit on fire or getting a hook through my mouth or throat, lifting my entire bodyweight by it and then beating me over the head till i am dead, makes it hard to choose.

It doesn't make me look in the least bit dishonest, many individuals that torture, maim, and kill animals for fun graduate to humans.

You to me you look like a person who is not honest to herself. Sorry.

Explain how we would isolate them from society without imprisoning them ? Do you know of a deserted island that they could be sent to ?

Well you'd have to imprison people by the definition of the word, but it should not have to a terrible place as what i see in US prison documentarys. I think it's torturing people and you ask for it when you treat people this way, you ask for em to come out and do bad stuff again.

Originally posted by Dark Jester

foxnews.com... teenagers could spend 25 years in prison for allegedly torturing and killing a cat they set on fire when they broke into an apartment in New York City.


Angelo Monderoy, 18, and Matthew Cooper, 17, allegedly broke into a vacant apartment in Brooklyn, N.Y., on or around Oct. 7, 2008. Kings County District Attorney Charles J. Hynes said the pair held the cat down as they poured charcoal lighter fluid on it.

I bet they won't be laughing when they get owned in lock up

 

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[edit on Sun Mar 22 2009 by Jbird] [/quotAnyone who takes pleasure in torturing anything defenseless , deserves a fate far worse then confinement .

I don't have to know them to know that this was a deliberate act, any fool can see that, you don't hold something down and set it on fire, or beat someone with a cane by accident. You are right i am more emotionally attached to the the victims of their cold hearted brutality. It is your right to be more attached to them if you so chose.

I feel equally sorry for both. I've tried getting my door kicked down and getting beat with my own bass guitar once so i can relate to how awful it must've felt for sure. But i have also been a stupid kid like these boys and i know what drugs will do to a young troubled mind. It's a sad sad situation for everyone and their families and i only hope the best future for them all. The kids getting some help and care, and the victims getting some help and care.

Thankfully it's not your eyes that i have to worry about. I can most assuredly guarantee you that niether one of my sons would ever do such a thing, they were raised to respect all living things. I'm sure you'll thing me a terrible person for this, but i even taught them not to go around breaking branches off trees as they too are living things and supply us with much needed oxygen.

Hahahaha
I don't think anyone are terrible. They can act terrible, but nothing in life is so black and white to me. Teaching your children not to break off the branches only seems kinda cute to me. I think trees are beautyful and i feel bad to break off the branches too a little i must admit, but if i was freezing one night i wouldn't let that stop me from chopping up some wood

I'm sorry but i am not capable of putting myself in the shoes of a person that would do something as horrible as that.

That's good for you! Sadly i can put myself in their shoes because i've been young, stupid, troubled myself and you can bet i am HAPPY that i now am a more reflective mind. My old me is a person i look back at with anger and emberasment.

No actually it's not the Christian version of the concept of God. It's one of the ten commandments that was given to Moses, that would make it part of the Jewish version of the concept of God, and Jewish people are not Christians.

Dosn't change the fact that it's also a part of the Christian concept of god But thanks for the knowlegde :p

You return to earth again because of this little thing called gravity.

Ah yes ofcourse DOH ofcourse, and here i was thinking that it was gods will LOL silly me huh Thanks for the wakeup call.

I would appreciate if we could leave God, and religion out of this discussion as this is not a thread about either one.

I am your humble servant.

Torturing, and beating other living beings are not a necessary for following the path of spiritual growth.

Sadly it was for me! I was gonna pet my hamster but he bid me and kept biting so he was hanging from my finger. So out of anger i threw him in the floor killing him instantly. Then i felt very sad about my actions, and it taught me to count to ten when i'd get upset, because those 10 seconds can save you from doing stuff you regret.

Better would be finding out why some people act like this, and finding a way to stop it before it happens.

BINGO!

I really don't understand what you're getting at here, but my mind is not embaressed by my flesh.

Sorry sometimes i get a little too poetical and assumes people just catch my drift. What i meant dosn't really matter anyway.

I believe you and i have had a similar debate on a different thread last year. This is just not something that we can find common ground on. You seem to be of the belief that human life is the be all and end all, the most important thing in the world, i'm not.

I think we agree alot more than you feel. I'll take the blame for that.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my rambling mind

[edit on 25-3-2009 by JustAThought]

Originally posted by sliceNodice
Have you all lost your minds?? It is an animal for christs sake!!!! So what if it was 'living...' So are snakes, and turtles.... Would you throw someone in prison for that long for breaking and entering plus killing a garden snake? NO, you wouldn't.... Just because they are cute and furry and make good pets all of a sudden they gain that much status??? YOU LUNATICS! You animal rights people make me so angry, you defy logic and ethics!

There is a difference between killing and torturing.

Have you heard?
The only necessary thing for evil...is for good men to do nothing..

Now continue to argue over semantics while the fish gasp for air.

reply to post by JustAThought


There are people in our prison systems that try to save "save their souls".
Good idea, but where is the money gonna come from, people aren't too quick to part with their hard earned money. True, but they in turn must show support and respect for others also.

Since the beginning certain behaviors wee not tolerated, and people that showed these behaviors were either killed, or banished.

Unfortunately i know absolutely nothing about Denmark. Many American prisons are also a joke, and more like a vacation. Friends and family are also allowed to visit here. Mentally ill criminals are placed in a mental hospital, not prison.

I don't think being a veggy is a disgust with nature as much as it is a feeling of guilt. I'm not a veggy, i eat meat i was just messin with ya however i do very often feel guilty that an animal has been killed to feed me. I still believe that there is a big difference between killing an animal to survive and killing for fun. Kinda like i have no problem with hunting for food, but don't like people that hunt for sport.

Seriously i'm not sure what is is that you think i have misunderstood.

reply to post by JustAThought


Ah i'm not that bad believe it or not i usually am lighthearted about many things. However i can not be lighthearted about the tortue of humans, or animals. I have a severe downfall and that is the fact that i am way too empathetic, especially towards animals, always have been, The thought of the fear and agony that that poor cat went through breaks my heart. I have never in my life been able to be cruel to an animal, i'm one of those people that is always feeding the strays and finding them homes. Believe me i'm not gonna cry over a tick either, if there's one on me, my family, or my dogs i'm gonna burn it off as it is a danger.

The difference is one is done for survival, the other was done for fun and out of malice.

I'm one of the most honest people you'll ever come across. And it is a proven fact that many people that torture and maim animals often graduate to humans if they are not stopped.

While i have to admit that there are some really bad prisons here, i'm sure that they do not show all of the prisons in the documentary. There are minimum security prisons where the inmates have their own room, are allowed to go into town, go fishing, have their own tv's, radios, and fans in their room. There are not all like what you see in the documentaries.

And are you aware of the fact (i am 100% serious here) that there are people here that purposely get themselves locked up for the winter months? They know when and what crimes to commit so they are locked up in the winter, with three squares a day, cable tv, movies, gyms with exercise equiptment that i would have to pay a health club a pretty penny to use. And they're out for the summer months, that's how they live, and seem happy with that lifestyle.

I do agree though that prison should not be a place where they are mistreated and definately not raped.

reply to post by JustAThought


We've all been young and stupid once, but we don't all go around beating and torturing people and animals. I know what drugs can do to a troubled mind, if allowed. While the victims may receive help, what was done to them can never be erased from their minds, and sometimes have lifelong effects, believe me this i know.

Nothin wrong with chopping up a little wood for survival

As i said we've all been young and stupid once, luckily i had a good upbringing and during my troubled youth the only person that i caused damage to was myself. This does not make me better than anyone else, just grateful that i never have to look back with regret what i've done to another person, or any animal.

Wasn't tryin to change any facts, just tryin to point out the origin

You are more than welcome, i'm always happy to give a wakeup call

Ah we do have something in common. For me it was my gerbil, grabbed onto my finger and refused to let go, i still have the scar. Fortunately i didn't kill him, my grandma got him off me.

Yourwelcome and Thank you for doing the same

pfft forget 25 years boot them off the planet..

I hope they do go to prison, no bail.

Ok ... murderers of human life have gotten away with less than 25 years in prison, and yet some immature teens are gonna go to jail for 25 years for killing a cat?

Im at a loss for words.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by calihan_12]

reply to post by calihan_12
Calihan - the majority of the 25 years they're hopefully gonna get is for criminal damage not for killing a cat. Consider this - in the UK several years ago two young men let evil actions take them over and they tortured a very young lad called James Bulger. Unfortunately a human being cannot change - he or she will always inherently be the same person albeit they might modify their behaviour for a short time - usually to avoid punishment or to deceive. If these 2 young men received some minor punishment - and let's say you had a young brother or sister of about 6 - 8 years old who ended up on the wrong side of these 2 young men - would you feel any different?

Second-degree arson, second-degree burglary and aggravated animal cruelty.

It's not just about the cat. I'll wager that the damage to the building was pretty bad. And you're not allowed to just break in to other peoples property to set animals on fire.

If the list of charges warrant the 25 years (rather concurrent or consecutive) then so be it. Remember, the 25 years possible would be if the kids get the full load of punishment AND the sentences arew ruled by a judge to be consecutive. If the time is concurrent then eact day inside will count as a day for each charge. So three charges you get credit for three days, not one.

Being a cat person I have taken the time to learn just how different each animal can be. An dI have had cats around that let em feed them bot would not let me pick them up or allow me to pet them. Because they didn't trust humans for whatever reason. Some of those I fed for a few years. So yes. A cat can love someone and not another. I have cats not that I can pick up but no one else can. Even if the other people feed them. Each one is different. and like propel they are different due sometimes to nature and other times nurture. They are actually fascinating animals if one was to take the time to actually understand them. From my experience most that do not like cats don't because they are sneaky. They are very stealthy creatures when they want to be. Remember, they have been predators for a long time. All the time of domestic existence has not taken that out of them. Watch cats in play. It's all about training. They use the same tactics that large cats do in the wild.

Sure we as humans are at the top of the food chain. But we can't be elitist and say it's just a cat. Who cares if they are abused. you don't have to like them. But to minimize the issue saying just a cat is just wrong. It is just too easy to trace back most every serial killer to animal abuse as a child. Sure not all killers abuse animals. And all that abuse animals don't turn into killers. But a pattern exists. anyone not seeing that is in denial or flat out lying to themselves and everyone else.

These kids broke laws. and not they should bay. More than likely even if they get the 25 years the article says it will more than likely be a concurrent sentence. that would mean that whatever crime they are found guilty on that's the longest that's how long they will be in.

As to will jail help them? Jail isn't supposed to. It's a punishment. The help they needed was denied by parents before all this happened.


[edit on 3/27/2009 by DrumJunkie]

one good news i read on this forum today

This is clearly a shocking crime and the perpetrators should be punished. In fact I am all for twenty five years. But when considering the many things criminals, thugs and banksters get away with these days it seems like someone is trying to send a message. Maybe they are trying to convince the world that Americans really are opposed to torture despite all the evidence our government has supplied to the contrary.
On a more serious note, if we emptied our prisons of all the people in there for marijuana possession, we would have plenty of room for the real scumbags.

reply to post by Solomons


25 years in jail is too good for these sub-humans. These kids are sick puppies. I'm tired of pigs like this breathing my air. Getting punked in prison means they are still breathing my air. Animals are a life form perfectly capable of showing love, pain, loyalty. This cat suffered one of man's primal fears, the fear of burning to death. These pigs aren't even as high a form of substance as the crap I flush down the toilet. Minimizing what they did is way beyond being ultra-liberal, it is being totally disconnected to reality.

Rapists and child molesters get less time on average.
That sentence is unbelievable.

They deserve punishment but also i think they NEED help. Clearly this is a sign of disturbed children and usually that has more to do with their home or social life. I think this is an atrocious cry for help, but of course most people buy into the demonization of our youth by the media. As if they are some cold, soulless, monsters and not a damaged byproduct of our own failed parenting.

Locking them up to essentially become a more vicious offender and hoping they get raped in the process is just as callous as lighting that cat on fire. They should be punished but not locked up for over two decades. I think they deserve counseling, and therapy in addition to whatever time they serve.

Pets are not little humans no matter how many times you dress them up like one. I think that stuff is just silly anthropomorphic fun, but I am worried if some people actually do that sort of thing seriously. I don't think a cat wishes to be in a tuxedo and a top hat.

I've had my cat for over ten years.
I love it, but it is not a furry human.
It is a cat.

Had it been my pet...no i wouldn't advocate twenty five years of prison time.

- Lee

Yeah I gotta say, having a cat who waits by the door when im in the shower and kisses me on command - that is sick, and I'd have beaten them senseless. But the people saying they should be set on fire... really? Would that solve anything?

And I agree its a little heavy of a sentence but they should know better and maybe it would deter them from moving on to humans. I mean one of them already did, beating some poor guy with a cane...

Obviously, these two people are sick individuals. I hope that in addition to the prison sentences they'll be offered the psychiatric help that they obviously need.

When do they end up doing this to a person?

We always go overboard or we never do enough.