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KT Challenge@Shanksville

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posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 


His credentials are extremely relevant in showing that Killtowns "challenge" is... a joke. He has experience and training in the field. He offered his educated opinion on what the crash seen should look like. Truthers, on the other hand have not offered one trained investigator that has come out stating that no plane crashed in Shanksville.


You are off topic CF this thread is not about some ones credentials and he is not the leading authority of 911




posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by SPreston
 

Uh, we are not supposed to discuss any of those things, because it makes the OS a lie.
Actually, it makes it a conspiracy theory.
It also show’s who head is still buried in the sand, or is in denial of the facts after they have been shown the facts time after time.

We all know that none of the airplanes crashes where not investigated and we all know NONE of the time change out parts were ever matched to said planes, this is a fact.
Until we have real proof those are the real planes that the government claims nothing else matters at this point because it all falls under hearsay.




[edit on 1-4-2009 by impressme]



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
You are off topic CF this thread is not about some ones credentials and he is not the leading authority of 911


Here is the OP:


Posted by D.Duck

Killtown has made a new video questioning what happened to Flight 93 at Shanksville and there is an offer at the end.

Interesting to see if someone takes it.

Haha, where did the plane go?


You see the OP asks where did the plane go. Thedman explains through his experience and training where it did go.

Totally on topic IMO.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by impressme
 


Any comment on the phone calls? Were the relatives lying? Where they faked?



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 




Any comment on the phone calls? Were the relatives lying? Where they faked?


Yes we were “HOODWINK” all actors in my opinion, all you have is she said and he said.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
Yes we were “HOODWINK” all actors in my opinion, all you have is she said and he said.


It appears the only ones that got Hoodwinked are the ones that buy Killtowns bologna.

Mark Bingham called his mother at 09:37:03 from row 25. He reported that the plane had been hijacked by three men who claimed to have a bomb.

Was his mother lying? Was she hoodwinked?

Jeremy Glick called his wife at 09:37:41 from row 27 and told her the flight was hijacked by three dark-skinned men that looked "Iranian", wearing red bandanas and wielding knives. Glick remained connected until the end of the flight. He reported that the passengers voted whether to "rush" the hijackers.

Was his wife lying? Was she hoodwinked?

Joseph DeLuca called his father at 09:43:03 from row 26 to inform him the flight had been hijacked.

Did Josephs father lie? Was he hoodwinked?

Todd Beamer attempted to call his wife from row 32 at 09:43:48, but was routed to GTE phone operator Lisa D. Jefferson. Beamer told the operator that the flight was hijacked and the pilots were on the floor dead or dying. He revealed one of the hijackers had a red belt with a bomb strapped to his waist.

Is Lisa lying to us? Was she hoodwinked?

Linda Gronlund called her sister, Elsa Strong, at 09:46:05 and left her a message saying there were "men with a bomb".

Did Elsa lie to us? Or did Ms. Gronlund lie to her sister? Who was hoodwinked here?

Flight attendant CeeCee Lyles called her husband at 09:47:57 and left him a message saying the plane had been hijacked.

CeeCee hoodwinked us?

Marion Britton called her friend, Fred Fiumano, at 09:49:12. Fiumano recalled, "she said, 'We’re gonna. They’re gonna kill us, you know, We’re gonna die.’ And I told her, 'Don’t worry, they hijacked the plane, they’re gonna take you for a ride, you go to their country, and you come back. You stay there for vacation.' You don’t know what to say—what are you gonna say? I kept on saying the same things, ‘Be calm.’ And she was crying and - you know - more or less crying and screaming and yelling."

I feel for Mr. Fiumano, he tried his best to keep his friend calm. Are you saying he was lied to??

Flight attendant Sandra Bradshaw called her husband at 09:50:04 and told him she was preparing scalding water to throw at the hijackers.

Was Mrs. Bradshaw not on the plane? Who called her husband?

Passenger Lauren Grandcolas called her husband twice, once before take off and once during the hijacking. He missed both of her calls. She then passed her phone to Honor Elizabeth Wainio.

Wainio called her stepmother at 09:53:43 and concluded, four and a half minutes later, by saying, "I have to go. They're breaking into the cockpit. I love you."

sources:

archives.cnn.com...

govinfo.library.unt.edu...

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

www.archives.gov...

www.npr.org...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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This is why the pictures are so important.If the alleged cell phone calls were accompanied with pictoral evidence,such as cell phone cameras now allow,we'd have no arguing about whether they were even possible,etc.

Remember,'Camera-on',a thousand words don't equal a picture.Have you found the time to put up even one?Please?Pretty please?(With an inbedded time stamp.)No?Put up or...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 


Mark Bingham called his mother at 09:37:03 from row 25. He reported that the plane had been hijacked by three men who claimed to have a bomb.

Was his mother lying? Was she hoodwinked?


Sounds like she hoodwinked you eh! Nothing but hearsay


. Jeremy Glick called his wife at 09:37:41 from row 27 and told her the flight was hijacked by three dark-skinned men that looked "Iranian", wearing red bandanas and wielding knives. Glick remained connected until the end of the flight. He reported that the passengers voted whether to "rush" the hijackers.

Was his wife lying? Was she hoodwinked?


Yeah! Just like Barbra Olson phone call that turned out to be a lie. I believe Jeremy Glick wife hoodwink you to, however, I never fell for that fallacy after I found out that all these statements came from the FBI infact, the FBI has lied to us about everything that contains to 911.
The more we dig, the more lies we uncover ain’t that right CF.


Joseph DeLuca called his father at 09:43:03 from row 26 to inform him the flight had been hijacked.

Did Josephs father lie? Was he hoodwinked?


As woodwinked as Barbra Olsen phone call, if the FBI lied to the public about one phone call then, I am sure they lied about the rest to make their case of highjackers on the planes to look good. You are only parroting what the Press, and News media have claimed, where infact the original statements came from the FBI, nothing but hearsay. You have no proof that these phone calls are real. (nothing)


Todd Beamer attempted to call his wife from row 32 at 09:43:48, but was routed to GTE phone operator Lisa D. Jefferson. Beamer told the operator that the flight was hijacked and the pilots were on the floor dead or dying. He revealed one of the hijackers had a red belt with a bomb strapped to his waist.


All hearsay from yours truly the FBI, right, and the terrorist walked right through the metal detectors at the airport wearing a bomb strap to his waist lol
But I have to admit it was a nice touch from the FBI to say that after our military shot down that plane.


Linda Gronlund called her sister, Elsa Strong, at 09:46:05 and left her a message saying there were "men with a bomb".

Did Elsa lie to us? Or did Ms. Gronlund lie to her sister? Who was hoodwinked here?

Again, you keep parroting the News media reports (nothing but hearsay.)
CF are you that gullible do you believe in everything that you are told by the New media where do you think all this info came from to begin with eh!


Flight attendant CeeCee Lyles called her husband at 09:47:57 and left him a message saying the plane had been hijacked.

CeeCee hoodwinked us?


Quoted from the FBI, just hear say, now this is worth a hand wave.


Marion Britton called her friend, Fred Fiumano, at 09:49:12. Fiumano recalled, "she said, 'We’re gonna. They’re gonna kill us, you know, We’re gonna die.’ And I told her, 'Don’t worry, they hijacked the plane, they’re gonna take you for a ride, you go to their country, and you come back. You stay there for vacation.' You don’t know what to say—what are you gonna say? I kept on saying the same things, ‘Be calm.’ And she was crying and - you know - more or less crying and screaming and yelling."

I feel for Mr. Fiumano, he tried his best to keep his friend calm. Are you saying he was lied to??


Yes! Prove it true? (Oh that’s right you can’t)


Flight attendant Sandra Bradshaw called her husband at 09:50:04 and told him she was preparing scalding water to throw at the hijackers.

Was Mrs. Bradshaw not on the plane? Who called her husband?


No one! The FBI lied, ether way, nether can be proven. Payoff’s are great don’t you agree. Speaking of boiling water that tell me how stable the plane was flying and she going to blab over the phone in front of the highjackers how she is going to subdue him. Right that is very smart, if she thought she had time to boil water, it’s obviously the so call highjackers could have been tackled by the crew, and passengers before it got any further.
Americans are not cowards; they would have over thrown those thugs with their plastic box cutters, really, I do not believe those planes where highjack, nor do I believe those were the said airplanes that supposedly crashed that day. You have no proof that supports the OS lie.


Passenger Lauren Grandcolas called her husband twice, once before take off and once during the hijacking. He missed both of her calls. She then passed her phone to Honor Elizabeth Wainio.

Wainio called her stepmother at 09:53:43 and concluded, four and a half minutes later, by saying, "I have to go. They're breaking into the cockpit. I love you."


I am sure if I could hear these phone calls, (cough) they where probably done by the best-paid actors that money can buy. Really, CF this is all hearsay, its all been dream up by our lovely FBI.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by impressme

Sounds like she hoodwinked you eh! Nothing but hearsay



Sounds like huh? So, she lied to all of us huh?

Perhaps you can go out to Oakland on May 22nd and ask his mother. There is a cocktail reception for the 2009-10 Mark Bingham Leadership Scholarship Award. If you can't make that. September 11,2009 there is The Mark Bingham Invitational. All money raised goes to help the Mark Bingham Foundation

If you are not available, you can write them an e-mail? That information is also available. Will you contact them to see if they lied? Or if the FBI lied?



I believe Jeremy Glick wife hoodwink you to,


You have nothing to base your belief on. You have any evidence? Maybe his sister Jennifer is hoodwinking the public with Jeremy's Heroes? A not for profit charitable foundation to ensure that all children have the opportunity to improve themselves and their communities through organized sports. There is addition contact information there for you if you are interested in calling them out for hoodwinking the public.


however, I never fell for that fallacy after I found out that all these statements came from the FBI


Really? The FBI made these statements? Did the family member come forward and say the FBI was lying?



infact, the FBI has lied to us about everything that contains to 911.


I think this statement shows who is being disingenuous.


The more we dig, the more lies we uncover ain’t that right CF.


I think the more you post the more......




if the FBI lied to the public about one phone call then, I am sure they lied about the rest to make their case of highjackers on the planes to look good.


This is a discussion about flight 93. Please start a new thread about the Pentagon. That being said, your statement is nothing but a perfect example of poisoning the well fallacy.


You are only parroting what the Press, and News media have claimed,


My sources are in print, and quoted by the person. If you were serious about researching 911, you would have seen or at least listened to the interviews some of the family members gave.


where infact the original statements came from the FBI, nothing but hearsay. You have no proof that these phone calls are real. (nothing)


You can hand wave all you want. You are showing what your research abilities are. Explain why the family members are all lying? Explain why they all tell very similar stories.




All hearsay from yours truly the FBI,


Wrong again. Are you saying that Lisa Jefferson did not speak with Todd Beamer? Your sinking fast here sir.

Lisa Jefferson

The link above will take you to the transcript of an interview she did with Larry King one year after 9/11. I am sure with your extensive research abilities, you will be able to find the video.



right, and the terrorist walked right through the metal detectors at the airport wearing a bomb strap to his waist lol


This again, shows your lack of knowledge pertaining to 911.


But I have to admit it was a nice touch from the FBI to say that after our military shot down that plane.


What? Now you are claiming it was shot down? Sir, you need to stick to a conspiracy. You can't claim it was shot down and then claim there isn't any evidence of a plane.





Again, you keep parroting the News media reports (nothing but hearsay.)
CF are you that gullible do you believe in everything that you are told by the New media where do you think all this info came from to begin with eh!


They are quotes from the person that spoke with them? There must be a heck of a draft at your house with all that hand waving, huh?


Jane Pauley sat down with many of the victims' loved ones for an extraordinary first-hand account of what happened based on their phone conversations with those on board. On the fifth anniversary, Pauley again reports on the flight that fought back.


No Greater Love

Read the transcript there as well. Search for the video in the archives.


Flight attendant CeeCee Lyles......

Quoted from the FBI, just hear say, now this is worth a hand wave.


Um, not exactly. The message she left on her home voice mail was released a few years ago. Wow... you aren't very good at this are you?


This is fresh.


I am sure if I could hear these phone calls, (cough) they where probably done by the best-paid actors that money can buy. Really, CF this is all hearsay, its all been dream up by our lovely FBI.


Let me know if you have any questions regarding flight 93. You have not done a very good job so far. Heck, you haven't even learned how to spell hijacker.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by CameronFox]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Ah!
You forgot the evidence of falsified, officially endorsed proof, laid out by Domenick DiMaggio and me in this 2 page long thread :

Shanksville Eyewitness Viola Saylor:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regarding the 1994 picture of the 93 crash site, see this one of mine :





and this is yours :







posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


I see how you dodged the phone calls Labtop... wonder why? Same reason Dom does.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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dbbl



[edit on 2-4-2009 by CameronFox]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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You really think so?

NOT :

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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Back to your photo with 2 inlays.
A masterpiece of mis-constructing evidence.

Most readers will place a cross hair in your red squared inlay, and thus arrive at the conclusion that you mean to show that the plane crashed in the center of that red drawn cube.

NOT.

Challenge to you:
Draw the real crash POINT in both squares in your photo, the red cube and the "FBI evidence" inlay.

Then we will proceed.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


i got the photo from Killtown.... I linked to the original.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 


infact, the FBI has lied to us about everything that contains to 911

I think this statement shows who is being disingenuous.


Really! How am I being disingenuous?


The more we dig, the more lies we uncover ain’t that right CF

I think the more you post the more......


Show me where I have lied?


This is a discussion about flight 93. Please start a new thread about the Pentagon. That being said, your statement is nothing but a perfect example of poisoning the well fallacy.


CF you are the one that has been disingenuous in here. You strayed this thread off topic, I was only answering your questions that you ask of me, nothing more. However, you are not satisfied with my answers so now you have resorted to attacking my character.

I think the more you post the more......



This again, shows your lack of knowledge pertaining to 911.


CF why do you continue to “assume” what kind of knowledge I have. Why do you “always” try to put your self above everyone in here with your rants?


What? Now you are claiming it was shot down? Sir, you need to stick to a conspiracy. You can't claim it was shot down and then claim there isn't any evidence of a plane.


You must have real proof that the plane was not shot down, that supports science, right.
You have hand wave so much evidence, in supporting the OS that, you “forgot” the debris field was eight miles wide in Shanksville. Call it what you want but that does not consist of an airplane crashing straight down in the ground and that my friend is a FACT.


Um, not exactly. The message she left on her home voice mail was released a few years ago. Wow... you aren't very good at this are you?


Any paid actor can record a message. (Just hearsay)


Let me know if you have any questions regarding flight 93. You have not done a very good job so far. Heck, you haven't even learned how to spell hijacker.


CF, in your desperate attempts to prove me wrong, now you have stoop to attacking my grammar, how mature.

CF what has my misspelling of (hijacker) got to do with (KT Challenge@Shanksville.) eh! Seem to me, you are so busy looking for ways to attack my spelling errors, and my character, that you have strayed off topic.

If you and I are in a debate over the Shanksville crash, then so far you have done nothing but parrot the OS, which everyone already knows. However most people will agree with me on this one, the investigation in to the Shanksville crash is highly suspicious, and stinks of cover-up and the OS about the Shanksville crash, (does not fit the evidences) and that’s a fact.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
You really think so?

NOT :

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I can not tell you why those two calls stayed connected. Instead of assuming something sinister was going on, why not contact GTE? Why not find someone familiar with the airphones?

What about ALL the other calls? Tell me about all the other people that I posted about above. Do you LaBtop think they were actors like the other poster does?



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 




I can not tell you why those two calls stayed connected. Instead of assuming something sinister was going on, why not contact GTE? Why not find someone familiar with the airphones?

What about ALL the other calls? Tell me about all the other people that I posted about above. Do you LaBtop think they were actors like the other poster does?


No but I do, you have not prove anything but parroted the NEWS media.
We all know they are paid to misinform you that has already been proven.
The OF story is a lie CF WAKE UP!


[edit on 2-4-2009 by impressme]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by impressme

infact, the FBI has lied to us about everything that contains to 911


Really! How am I being disingenuous?


You state infact [sic]

That is disingenuous.




Show me where I have lied?


Look at your quote above.




CF you are the one that has been disingenuous in here. You strayed this thread off topic, I was only answering your questions that you ask of me, nothing more.


I was keeping it with flight 93.... soon enough you will have CIT in here screaming of a flyover.



However, you are not satisfied with my answers so now you have resorted to attacking my character.


Hogwash! You are not giving answers to anything. You are echoing "hearsay" as you hand wave all the evidence.



I think the more you post the more......





CF why do you continue to “assume” what kind of knowledge I have. Why do you “always” try to put your self above everyone in here with your rants?


I never claimed to have all the answers. You have failed to answer any of them.




You must have real proof that the plane was not shot down, that supports science, right.


Do you know what kinetic energy is? Do you know what the TNT equivalent was when flight 93 crashed? Would you like me to post the math?



You have hand wave so much evidence, in supporting the OS that, you “forgot” the debris field was eight miles wide in Shanksville.


I have forgotten no such thing. Please explain to me what debris was found 8 miles away. Then please tell me what the winds were on 9/11/2001. Then please tell me what the NTSB feels was the reason why these debris were found so far away.



Call it what you want but that does not consist of an airplane crashing straight down in the ground and that my friend is a FACT.


Your right... it was a 40 degree angle not exactly straight down.




Any paid actor can record a message. (Just hearsay)


So, some actor that knew CeCe's phone number and voice and family and what she called her husband... called and left a message for her family? Yeah.. the NWO has plenty of those.




CF, in your desperate attempts to prove me wrong, now you have stoop to attacking my grammar, how mature.


Desperate? I have proven you wrong. You know nothing of flight 93 and what happened on 911. I am not attacking your character as you accuse me of. The fact that you have issues spelling hijacker is not a big deal... thought I would point it out to you.

I have also answered ALL your questions with facts. You ignore them and call them hearsay. You have a RECORDED MESSAGE from a flight attendant. that is not hearsay. You have FIRST HAND INTERVIEWS where the family members all tell similar stories.


If you and I are in a debate over the Shanksville crash, then so far you have done nothing but parrot the OS, which everyone already knows. However most people will agree with me on this one, the investigation in to the Shanksville crash is highly suspicious, and stinks of cover-up and the OS about the Shanksville crash, (does not fit the evidences) and that’s a fact.


Please explain to me what doesn't fit. Calling me a parrot and consistently hand waving does not prove anything. The only people that will agree with you are the ones that can't refute the mountain of evidence. There is nothing suspicious about flight 93.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by impressme


No but I do,



You know why the two calls stayed connected? I'm all ears.



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