What kind of Government do you people want after this civil war?

I have a question. If there is a civil war, or riots, or whatever here in the States… What kind of government do you people want afterwards? Causing destruction for angers sake has never turned out well. There are several examples throughout history of peoples who have become dissatisfied with their respective governments and revolted. Sadly however, once their old government was gone, things usually become a heck of lot worse with their new leaders, then they where under the old government. Why? The simple answer is, because those people never answered the question I just posed. They never asked nor did they plan for what kind of government they wanted or would have after they rebelled.
One needs to look no further then the French revolution to see just how bad a rebellion for rebellions sake can end up. There are more recent examples, some very ugly recent examples, mostly in third world countries like Afghanistan… And there have been some peaceful rebellions, like in Russia, which is extremely rare btw.
However the question still remains. Before I give my ideas on what kind of updated governance I would like to see happen here in the states without war… I would like to read what exactly those of you who want open rebellion would like to have at the end of all that violence… Those of you who are leaning or are waiting for someone to start this civil war/rebellion, I would like to hear your ideas too. If your thinking, hoping, wanting a new government, or a better government… Before the bullets, killings, raping, murdering and wanton destruction begins, you should probably have an idea of what you want or will demand at the end of all that sadness and death.

So… What kind of government are you hoping to have if/when/after this coming(?) civil war?

--Charles Marcello

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(read full text page 3)

Number 1,

Create what I like to call The Law of Thirteen.

The Law of Thirteen… 12 people selected by their social security number. (This will work the same whether its Local, State, or Federal.) 5 people from each of the two major party, 2 other people from one of the other parties, Libertarian/Constitutional/Green etc… and Still one other person is selected by the Mayor/Governor/President. These people watch over the government. (For local government you will need only 1 Law of Thirteen, for States around 4 or 5, for the Federal Government 6 or 10). The Law of Thirteen, are group of selected citizens who are the protectors of the Constitution and our Freedoms. People are busy living their lives, these people however have the complete authority to over turn Local Boards, Councils, State Offices, State Congress, Federal Agencies, the U.S. Congress, and all courts, local, state and federal. We make it so these people are the final authority. In order to over turn a government institution they only need to have, 6 plus 1. There can be an appeal Law of Thirteen, but they have to vote 6 plus 1 in order to over turn the previous Law of Thirteen. (I won’t hog exactly how this Lo13 must govern the governing. I want to hear what you people think)

Number 2

In order to overturn the Supreme Court there are only two options.
A) Get the Supreme Court to overturn itself. Or,
B) Create a Constitutional Amendment.
That is absolutely ridiculous, all we have done in this country is replace the Cross with the Gavel. This must change.
We must get people into office that allows Either a State the right to overturn the Supreme Court, for their state only. Or B) Create a Constitutional Amendment that states in order for the Supreme Court to Over rule a State or a vote of a people inside a state, the Supreme Court must rule Unanimously!

When one Federal Judge can overturn an entire state election, we know our system of governance/laws is broken.

What say you?

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Above is a quick re-post of what you can read in full on page three.



[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]

This is an easy question to answer. We want our Constitution restored, and a REDO of federal legislation that empowers States and People.

O-315

Paul 2012

"Before the bullets, killings, raping, murdering and wanton destruction begins"

Why are you assuming that a potential civil war will be violent in nature? There are more effective ways of accomplishing genuine change than using violence. And I am not talking about phony cosmetic change that some NWO puppet is promising.

A more appropriate question would be: how do you plan to accomplish beneficial change for the masses without it being violent in nature? Putting the cart before the horse (assumption of a violent uprising) is not going to get you too far to begin with.

Look at the Middle East for example. Has violence solved or created more problems there? If nobody is willing to take a step forward to break the cycle of violence which has infested this planet, one cannot expect things to get better.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Wise words my friend indeed. I truely hope we find a way.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


--U.S.A. thread--

I agree with Sphinx. This could just as easily be an intellectual revolution, where people see the errors of living irresponsibly and illogically. It is my sincere hope that we have a RENEWAL of Constitutional Law and a return to our Founding Father's vision for our U.S.

Let the revolution be democratic moderate Libertarianism!

O-315

Why do we need government? Humans have existed for a very long time before they invented government, better actually, before government, so why do we even need a government. Unless of course it is to guarantee the entitlements to the rich off the backs of the poor.

Government promotes the idea of a superior class ruling an inferior class. The constitution replaces freedom with what the superior class allows the inferior class to posess. Why do we need government?

Why not ask the Hadzabe of Tanzania or the Red People of the Rain Forest or maybe even the Aboriginees in Australia what a government does that they could not do themselves for thousands of years? Why do we need a government at all unless it is to ensure the rights of superiority of a small numbeer of those who want to stay on top?

Go ahead, you pick a government and a governing style to dictate to you their version of freedom and equality; I choose no government because I already know how to share and live free.

Peaceful protest will prove to prevail, much like the 60's there must be masses of people in order for this to succeed, right now everyone is armchair protesters.....exactly how they want it. Get out there and do something.....you may be the only one out there but I promise more will come and join you.....it is on every Americans mind.

-Kdial1

Originally posted by organism315
This is an easy question to answer. We want our Constitution restored, and a REDO of federal legislation that empowers States and People.

O-315

Paul 2012

Okay, you say that is an easy question…With all due respect, I would argue you gave an easy answer… How would you go about getting our Constitution restored? There are millions of people within America who believe the Constitution is an outdated 18 century document that has no business in the 21 century. I strongly disagree, I will demand a return to our Constitution as well, hell that‘s a given I thought… However those people exist in droves… Do they all need to die? Get sent to France or Venezuela ?

How do you accomplish what you claim is very easy… through violence?

Not to mention you don’t need a redo… You just need your governors to demand their and their people’s 10 amendment absolute right… Those who say state rights were dissolved after our last civil war, are damn liars! The only way to take away a Constitutional right is to vote it away! Unless of course you use the courts to ignore it in the first place…

What kind of Government do you people want after this civil war?

I would rather not have a Government.
Why do I need one?
I didn't ask for one.
What did we do before we had Governments?
We still lived ok, right?
How about all the laws and rules, the people vote on each time they are passed?
We could do it through electronic methods very easily.
Yes people would spend alot of time voting.
But they could make like a weekly vote time.
Where all people vote on any new laws, once a week.
This would actually be fair.The people would be having a voice.
Voting for one person to make the decisions for us, is stupid.
Because if they get corrupted, or lie, then we have no voice.
Kind of like Obama's lies.Just to get elected.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Before the bullets, killings, raping, murdering and wanton destruction begins"

Why are you assuming that a potential civil war will be violent in nature? There are more effective ways of accomplishing genuine change than using violence. And I am not talking about phony cosmetic change that some NWO puppet is promising.

A more appropriate question would be: how do you plan to accomplish beneficial change for the masses without it being violent in nature? Putting the cart before the horse (assumption of a violent uprising) is not going to get you too far to begin with.

Look at the Middle East for example. Has violence solved or created more problems there? If nobody is willing to take a step forward to break the cycle of violence which has infested this planet, one cannot expect things to get better.

With all the posts on ATS about civil war and violent rebellion, not to mention I purposely phrased this thread towards those who are seeking violence, or waiting for someone to start the violence... My question to you is, even though I agree with your assessment... Are you being serious?

This thread was created for the sole purpose of asking what do those who want civil war, what kind of government do they want or what kind of government is worth killing your fellow Americans over... Perhaps you can start a thread with a more peaceful exchange, however, under global meltdown... peace is hardly the result of a meltdown... I'm just sayin!

Originally posted by BorgHoffen
What kind of Government do you people want after this civil war?

I would rather not have a Government.
Why do I need one?
I didn't ask for one.
What did we do before we had Governments?
We still lived ok, right?
How about all the laws and rules, the people vote on each time they are passed?
We could do it through electronic methods very easily.
Yes people would spend alot of time voting.
But they could make like a weekly vote time.
Where all people vote on any new laws, once a week.
This would actually be fair.The people would be having a voice.
Voting for one person to make the decisions for us, is stupid.
Because if they get corrupted, or lie, then we have no voice.
Kind of like Obama's lies.Just to get elected.

This can never work... seriously it can never work! You can live in the mountains in a commune or something with like… you, anything more then that and someone must always lead... But in a very large group of people you must have governance...You, we, Must Have... Would be nice not too, but to not have a way to organize a defense, structure, cohesion, togetherness, then complete chaos will reign until someone brings order by governance... So that suggestion is nonsensical....


There are ways to fix our country without violence for sure... I will mention a couple in few more posts that we can start next election cycle... However denying large groups of people can live together without being governed is just silly... sorry!

Originally posted by kdial1
Peaceful protest will prove to prevail, much like the 60's there must be masses of people in order for this to succeed, right now everyone is armchair protesters.....exactly how they want it. Get out there and do something.....you may be the only one out there but I promise more will come and join you.....it is on every Americans mind.

-Kdial1

Yes, peaceful protest can prevail, if you have a consensuses... If not, then what if your group wants change my group absolutely refuses to accept? What if my group wants change that your group absolutely refuses to accept? What if my group tells your group to sit down and shut up because my group is larger? Or what if your group tells my group to sit down and shut up because your group has more guns? What if....

I realize most of us, including myself, would like to see peaceful change and the people and the states get our rightful power back... However, this is a mental exercise on what kind of governance people would want after a violent civil war.

What kind of government/governance is worth fighting for? I will fight to the death to throw off the evil of socialism? Damn right! If it comes to this country, say socialized healthcare... so too does civil war. What kind of government will there be afterwards? That is the question on the table!



[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]

However the change does come by, you might want to look into the Swiss government as a potential model of government.

However, at least make sure of the following:

- Not a two-party system, but a multi-party system, this would be less likely to be corrupted entirely and people might feel better represented.
- Not 1 POTUS but like in Switzerland a council of 7 members (Bundesrat / Federal council), this would limit the power of a single person, unlike the current status.
- Get rid of the fed and make sure that congress issues the money, as it was done before 1913 and the Federal reserve act
- Curb the influence of the lobbies or at least make it more transparent.
- Make sure that the law works FOR the people and not against them. Avoid cases like this one, no detainment without due process.

This would be a good start to a better future.

Peace.

Why must it always come to violence? Can it just be a "war" of minds? Why must death solve an issue? You see?... these are the ideas a government poromotes... civil unrest turns to a violent death... but why must it go that route? Because the government will handle it that way but the people don't do things like that. We talk, we argue, but in the end we can argree to leave each other alone...but only if there was real equality, real freedom. To die? Is it really worth it? The current government put all the stakes on the black number indicating NO!

Unfortunately, the only way for a peaceful agreement is if there were no government with their military war tactics to overpower us. To answer the threat of death, do we in turn cause death to get closer to our cause? Funny how the way of the world that does not make sense seems to have this overwhelming power to make us all stupid! War, death, power, greed, money... what does it all get you in the end?

Considering the right wing has always been in the minority and by all accounts most people approve of the way the president is handling things... your post is a joke.

Interesting, isn't it?

Governments feel that these "patriots", "libertarians", and "3rd party supporters" are "terrorists", and all they are asking for is a RETURN to our Constitutional roots.

That should be enough for any thinking man to realize who the "terrorists" actually are.

Originally posted by Swordbeast
However the change does come by, you might want to look into the Swiss government as a potential model of government.

However, at least make sure of the following:

- Not a two-party system, but a multi-party system, this would be less likely to be corrupted entirely and people might feel better represented.
- Not 1 POTUS but like in Switzerland a council of 7 members (Bundesrat / Federal council), this would limit the power of a single person, unlike the current status.
- Get rid of the fed and make sure that congress issues the money, as it was done before 1913 and the Federal reserve act
- Curb the influence of the lobbies or at least make it more transparent.
- Make sure that the law works FOR the people and not against them. Avoid cases like this one, no detainment without due process.

This would be a good start to a better future.

Peace.

Great post Swordbeast...

No doubt, the changes you have mentioned here would almost assure a civil war must happen to bring them about. The whole Constitution would need to be rewritten to accommodate those suggestions. However, in the end it might be a government worth having once peace finds it way back into the land. Anyone else like Swordbeast’s suggestion… Perhaps the government that must exist after a war?

Where would the civil war be in the states?

i think it will be a peaceful revolution. the country won't fight the states this time.

i want more localized governments and a digital democracy.

Wake up and smell the rot of our current system of things! If you do not have the brains or the courage to stand up and just say ABSOLUTELY NOT!.. will you at least stand behind a voice that would take the bullet for you?

An external authority... what you call a constitution and people to uphold the constitution... it does not make sense! We are born free! Why must we allow a superior form of our race dictate to us what freedoms they allow us to have in the form of a constitution?

Wake up and smell the oppression and suppression brewing! By the way... are you happy with your life pursuing this illusion of an American Dream? Are you content with the freedoms you are allowed under a piece of paper called the constitution? Wake up or at least open your eyes! Will you back someone willing to take YOUR bullet in order that you may have the life you were born to live?