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What kind of Government do you people want after this civil war?

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posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 


You claim you are capiatlist? Can you explain why the system you believe in is collapsing arournd you... world-wide, I maght add? It is based on using up resources for a profit without regard to replenishing them. How can a capitalist spend the profit on replacing what is consumed? Can't be done and still make a profit. Capitalists are parasites, consuming and consuming, profit after profit until what? Until now... When there is nothing left to profit on, will capitalist start profiting on each other?




posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ubergrasshopper

Originally posted by littlebunny

Ones needs to look no further then the French revolution to see just how bad a rebellion for rebellions sake can end up.

........

So… What kind of government are you hoping to have if/when/after this coming(?) civil war?





What was right with the French Revolution is that a bunch of elites were removed from circulation .... permanently. What, specifically, do you perceive to be wrong with the French government (that can't be explained in terms of long term government corruption)? Details please.

When the US dies (not if but when), I want a new Constitutional Republic based on the same principles our founding fathers laid down -- only stronger.

The first amendment should guarantee free speech except for the principle of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. No restrictions should be available from any other quarter.

The second amendment should guarantee all able-bodied the right to keep and bear arms for protection, hunting and defence against out-of-control politicians. The arms available to the public should be equil or better than anything available to the military.

The third amendment should prohibit, in peacetime or wartime, the quartering of soldiers (military personnel) in private homes without the owner's consent and immediate payment in gold.

The forth amendment should guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. It should specifically require search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. No-knock warrants are illegal unless a life or death situation exists. Officers of the court or law enforcement that engage in illegal conduct under this amendment should be put to death.

The fifth amendment ..... you get the idea...... It's time to put government in it's rightful place as a *servant* of the people.



Umm, what I dislike, (that's putting it mildly), about the French revolution, (FR), is, people were guillotined simply because someone called them a traitor! What I dislike about the FR is all the pain and suffering those people had to go through as others stole, took, and destroyed anyone who got in their way. The poor got poorer, they suffered horribly. What I dislikes about the FR, is how many people had to be murdered before one of the greatest monsters in History, Napoleon, ran that country into the ground! Albeit, not before the French had their first and last taste of what it felt like to be victorious in battle. (what? … I only threw a little jab at the French.)


Regarding the rest of what you wrote... I agree with you... However, do we need violence to make that happen or can it be done without violence?

Does anyone else agree with ubergrasshopper?


[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Swordbeast
 


The first thing wrong with the constitution is giving rights that one person or government of people have no right to give or take. With that being said, it does not make sense to even argue over the little details. It's insane!

Who decides whether my life is worthy of living? I will guarantee, it is not going to be anyone, government or entity besides me, for me, and by me only. I am no better nor no less than any other human on this planet and will not tolerate an elected whatever to tell me otherwise. No matter how young anyone on this forum would like to compliment me being.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by peggy m
reply to post by littlebunny
 


You claim you are capiatlist? Can you explain why the system you believe in is collapsing arournd you... world-wide, I maght add? It is based on using up resources for a profit without regard to replenishing them. How can a capitalist spend the profit on replacing what is consumed? Can't be done and still make a profit. Capitalists are parasites, consuming and consuming, profit after profit until what? Until now... When there is nothing left to profit on, will capitalist start profiting on each other?


I don't claim... I am!

AND...Are you kidding me? Do you even have any idea what the hell it is you're talking about? What you wrote above is absolute nonsense!

What is happening to this world is GREED! Greed by poor people to have more then they can afford! Greed by rich people, wanting more from something that never existed! Greed from governments wanting more of your money so they can get re-elected. Greed from everyone else but those who followed the damn rules! Don't sit there and even attempt to blame this on capitalism and the absolute wonders that system has brought to every country who has implemented it!

Capitalist societies go through ups and down, because during the good times people get greedy, and those aholes have to be weeded out yet again! This time however, that greed spilt over to people all over America and the world in all financial levels. Credit Cards, Car loans, House's they should never have owned, stock‘s... Everyone making bets and guess what... Some people lost and lost big... while good ol' Uncle Sam is giving the richest among us their money back, (I agree that BS is wrong!), while the little people who bet and lost… well those bastards have to just suck it up! (Perhaps that is also why people are ready to explode? Not that capitalism is wrong, its wrong that capitalist principles are being ignored, or completely abandoned so the rich can have a mulligan.)

BTW, it aint just Capitalist societies either... But in order to make a ridiculous point I guess you have to ignore that stuff that fly’s directly in your face!

Nothing left! Oh my god!

BTW, to get back on point… are you willing to fight to put and end to capitalism?



[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 


Those who advocate violence will die a violent death. I see no reason to stop it. Sure, some people who think as I will be victims, only because no one, not friend, not brother, not neighbor will want to get involved, carefully staying under the radar, not to be noticed so he or she can just simply live in a world of made-to-believe, slicing out a tiny little protion where nothing else exists except he or she.

Mob rules only apply when there is a mob. For all those that become involved in mob violence, I will let them kill each other but would protect my fellow thinker like me, perhaps even allow myself to become the victim, the martyr and die knowing none of it made any sense, the world is insane making plan after plan just like the plan before and expecting the world to change with the same kind of plan being executed.

Years later when my children's children's children recite the tale of this old woman... perhaps I will gain the status of a superior being in a mythical tale... Until then, the wolrd is what we allow it and believe it to be. If you can't have some fun, why live in the first place?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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A sovereign government, for starters

A government that wouldn't aim to set world records or maintain any kind of historical notability, but rather would achieve greatness for the sake of the people.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
A sovereign government, for starters

A government that wouldn't aim to set world records or maintain any kind of historical notability, but rather would achieve greatness for the sake of the people.


So your saying, first... you would take this country out of the U.N.?

Second, actually... outside of that first question I don't have any idea what you're talking about... Can you please explain your statement?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Our country was founded on a violent revolution. It is supposed to be a Republic or rule of law. The founders understood that even a republic would need a refresh at some point.

So I would like to see the U.S.A remain a constitutional republic.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by peggy m
 


As far as I can see, the constitution doesn't GIVE rights but rather DEFINES rights.

Every right you claim to have is only worth as much as you are ready to invest to back it up.
To what ends would you go to make sure that your "rights" are enforced? This is the question that starts to be pretty pressing in face of the current events and legislatures imho.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Okay here are my suggestions that I said I would post.

The first thing this country needs is a way to govern the governing. We usually call those elections, however, the politicians in just about every Republic style government has figured out. Just as soon as they elect us, we can do whatever we went, and then for four months every two years… We lie and say those who claim we steal, cheat, or abuse the Constitution are lying. And you know this because it’s the other party. However, if you look at how bad things really are, regardless of which party is in office. to say we are free people, when we are complete slaves to this government, would a be a complete understandment. So what can we do… Start over? Really? Maybe we should try one more thing before we all go nucking futs.

Number 1,

Create what I like to call The Law of Thirteen.

The Law of Thirteen… 12 people selected by their social security number. (This will work the same whether its Local, State, or Federal.) 5 people from each of the two major party, 2 other people from one of the other parties, Libertarian/Constitutional/Green etc… and Still one other person is selected by the Mayor/Governor/President. These people watch over the government. (For local government you will need only 1 Law of Thirteen, for States around 4 or 5, for the Federal Government 6 or 10). The Law of Thirteen, are group of selected citizens who are the protectors of the Constitution and our Freedoms. People are busy living their lives, these people however have the complete authority to over turn Local Boards, Councils, State Offices, State Congress, Federal Agencies, the U.S. Congress, and all courts, local, state and federal. We make it so these people are the final authority. In order to over turn a government institution they only need to have, 6 plus 1. There can be an appeal Law of Thirteen, but they have to vote 6 plus 1 in order to over turn the previous Law of Thirteen. (I won’t hog exactly how this Lo13 must govern the governing. I want to hear what you people think)

Here’s were this gets interesting. A special Law of Thirteen must be created to punish those who violate the Constitution. The punishment for government fraud, corruption and violation of oath of office is Death, period! Plus there could be another special Law of Thirteen to oversees Corporate companies, and if they cheat, (Enron, Fannie, Freddie, AIG as examples), or purposely hurt the environment or their customers, or the citizens around their plants/business, then the Lo13 can either, sentence these crooks to death and take 70 percent of each of those found guilty total net worth. Or, can sentence them to prison and 90 percent of each persons net worth. (there is a lot that can be discussed here, so I will leave this open as well)

Number 2,

Ask any atheist about religion and what evils the church has done to humanity over the years. They will mention the inquisitions, Salem Witch trails, and many other sins they brought to humanity when they had unlimited power. Well you give anything unlimited power and they will take advantage.

In order to overturn the Supreme Court there are only two options.
A) Get the Supreme Court to overturn itself. Or,
B) Create a Constitutional Amendment.
That is absolutely ridiculous, all we have done in this country is replace the Cross with the Gavel. This must change.
We must get people into office that allows Either a State the right to overturn the Supreme Court, for their state only. Or B) Create a Constitutional Amendment that states in order for the Supreme Court to Over rule a State or a vote of a people inside a state, the Supreme Court must rule Unanimously!

When one Federal Judge can overturn an entire state election, we know our system of governance/laws is broken.

I will leave this second part right here so we can discuss this further.

We can start creating this now… Or, after a civil war?

What say you?




[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by littlebunny
I have a question. If there is a civil war, or riots, or whatever here in the States… What kind of government do you people want afterwards?


In my book, I describe what *I* would like to see...and not only that, I show a world we could arrive at without any "war" or rioting, as well as how to get there.

The only thing that stands in the way of the solution I propose is getting the ideas to the tipping point. The work needs to be read by as many as possible, and if enough see and understand what I offer, the movement will happen.

Otherwise, we won't HAVE a choice.

The PTB will be calling all the shots, including a NWO, and the starving and eradicating of most of us.

The introduction to my book can be found here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And a discussion thread as well as my book are linked in my sig.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 


How about no government, since any government is just a proxy government for the real government anyway.

If there were no government, then we would find out who the real government was since there's no more proxy... think time travelers and aliens in spaceships...



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by MegaCurious
reply to post by littlebunny
 


How about no government, since any government is just a proxy government for the real government anyway.

If there were no government, then we would find out who the real government was since there's no more proxy... think time travelers and aliens in spaceships...


(((Read all responses to Peggy M)))

Nuff said!



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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I want one with Congressional terms limits. They are vital to our nation’s future
But it's like waging of political war. Like a shooting war,
it can change history—in this instance a vast change for
the better—for the nation and our children and
their unborn descendants.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

“One thing our founding fathers
could not foresee…was a
nation governed by professional
politicians who had a vested interest
in getting reelected. They
probably envisioned a fellow
serving a couple of hitches and
then looking…forward to getting
back to the farm.”
—Ronald Reagan (1973)



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by littlebunny

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
A sovereign government, for starters

A government that wouldn't aim to set world records or maintain any kind of historical notability, but rather would achieve greatness for the sake of the people.


So your saying, first... you would take this country out of the U.N.?

Second, actually... outside of that first question I don't have any idea what you're talking about... Can you please explain your statement?




That wasn't what I was saying. The governments of several countries answer to the British Royal Crown, for instance.
The UN is a bunch of crap.

It seems like governments prop themselves up to be "great" in order to leave some sort of generalized legacy. Governments nowadays weren't set up to serve the people. Rather the people are wards of the state. Unless you have completely emancipated yourself, the government has you by the balls for one reason or another, as a "public officer." That the US governement serves the people is a complete lie.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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First of all, congratulations to those who actually realize that this country was originally founded as a REPUBLIC = By the people for the people with inalienable rights, backed by a Constitution, etc., etc...

as opposed to a DEMOCRACY = things are chosen by the status quo(Doesn't it suck for all of us when the status quo can be bought and paid for?) Maybe why the Constitution can now just be voted away with no problem or argument perhaps?

There is a HUGE difference here. Democracy is just the next step toward Oligarchy(welcome to 1984).

I do not mean to insult the intelligence of any members here on ATS, but it seems that some people here need to be reminded of what KIND of government we have and what we used to have, because there is a difference.

And I would have to say I would go for a restored Republic as well. As much as I would love to have no government, and live free, peaceful, happy lives where everyone just shares with each other, unfortunately I do not think that can happen anytime soon.

Humanity itself is too traumatized for any drastic change like that to essentially work.

Also, why do so many people think this will turn into something violent? I'm not trying to live in la la land here, but we all know it doesn't solve anything(Not to mention anyone who wants martial law to take effect this will be the quickest way to achieve that goal).


Cheers.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by organism315
This is an easy question to answer. We want our Constitution restored, and a REDO of federal legislation that empowers States and People.


I agree. And a leader with goodness in his heart and wisdom beyond his years. I'm thinking Ron Paul for example. He's wise even beyond his years.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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First recognize that the only real "laws of nature" are:
1: Don't hurt other people
2: Don't interfere with other peoples property subject to law #1 above
3: Don't mislead people in agreements
4. People have the right of free passage limited only by the laws above

Beyond that, a new "Society" with very limited regulations like ---
1. There are only living humans -- there are no false entities such as corporations or strawmen that are recognized as having any rights.

2. All persons holding membership or ownership in any organization such as a business enterprise must be listed by their real name and address. There can be no aliasing, proxies, etc.. All members/owners are fully accountable for the behavior of the organization under the Laws of nature. In other words if a group of people form what they want to call a company or corporation and the enterprise poisons the water and harms a living human or their property the owners / members of the organization are fully accountable up to death for their actions. No one remains unaccountable for their actions. No one averts responsibility or traceability.

3. Land is not a commodity - land is held in public trust and is not for sale. All land is leased for free in perpetuity to individuals in 10 acre or less lots for them and their descendants to live on so long as the property is occupied 5 months of the year. If the land is idle for more then 7 months without extenuating circumstances such as illness then the land reverts to the public trust. No more land speculating / land grabbing jacking up the cost of housing and driving people into debt slavery. Land apportioned for other purposes such as industry, farming, recreation is taxed for it's use and may be re appropriated for individual housing.


That's a start anyway...



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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What type of government would I like to see?

A global, completely transparent Technocracy using thermoeconomics, with truth and the true god held as the prime focus as our basis for existing.

-



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by prevenge
What type of government would I like to see?

A global, completely transparent Technocracy using thermoeconomics, with truth and the true god held as the prime focus as our basis for existing.


I liked this up until you got to the "god" part. Until and unless we can establish WTF the "true" god is, I say leave religion out of it.



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