Originally posted by Northern Raider
I joined this thread to try and get it stopped as this was a survival forum until the guin nuts and conspracy theorists turned up...

Free men who own guns.... you mean idoits who massacrs workmates and schoolfriends.

We do have mods on this board. If they're leaving the topic open, then they apparently consider it to be an appropriate topic of discussion.

Make your case and leave it at that.

BTW, blanket insults smearing all American gun owners like that final sentence I also quoted certainly isn't going to help you change any minds.

I keep rolling back to this thread to see if it has returned to the topic, but I see that it hasn't.

Northern Raider. Im gonna make a debate thread for just me and you to debate the issues of guns, you can argue your fact less blanket statements and I will gather all the hard data to prove my facts. Although people like you can have facts put in your face all day but it wont penetrate your all ready made up mind. In the mean time we can have u2u wars, Ill give you a heads up im striking first.

Here are the facts about the first AWB (assault weapon ban) When clinton signed the bill.
Clinton signed the AWB
Economy suffers loss of sales (multi millions per year)
Law abiding Americans can no longer buy several types of firearms
Crime stayed the same
Murder stayed the same
Shootings stayed the same
AWB expires:
crime does not rise
murder does not rise
Millions is pumped into the economy.

the majority of all the mass shootings that happen in the U.S. are carried out in towns or states with the strictest gun laws and where citizens are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon. In all the states or towns where citizens can carry a concealed firearm, their crime rate is lower than any state that does not allow concealed carry. It is what it is, facts are facts. We are safer with fire arms. Look at the U.K. they dont have guns to kill people so what do they do...... 1-give up for lack of a gun? 2-cool off and forgive and forget? OR 3-get a knife or baseball bat and then kill that person? Has anybody seen the U.Ks knife related deaths?

Please forgive my exchanges with Mr. Raiders’ having hijacked this discussion; I make no other plea than the petulant wines of a British crown surf against the evils of the Second Amendment’s guaranty of our continued freedom is at best ‘cheeky’, at worst hypocritical fallacious garbage; especially when one considers that the Second Amendment was written with the British crown’s attempt to disarm the American colonist still fresh in mind.

After reading some of the delusional revised history he presented, I should have realized that continued exchange would be counter productive, as he seems to need anti-psychotic medication to return to reality. Indicative of this is the thread he started on the capabilities of air guns, while espousing ‘gun club freedom’ in the UK; sad and pathetic. Enough said on this.

Now, as to Mexican drug violence being blamed on America’s legally brought guns going to Mexican drug cartels, did anyone notice that the pictures of most of the rifles displayed were full auto US military weapons? What I know for sure is that in several photos there were racks of M-16 A2’s and M203 grenade launchers on M4 carbine rifles shown; these rifles are not sold in civilian gun shops. Mass quantities of them have been sold to different departments of the Mexican government however; which means that the CIA intelligence report to Congress in 2007 that weapons being sold to the Mexican government were being resold to cartel members was indeed true. This would answer a LOT of questions as even LEGAL full auto weapons are next to impossible to buy in the USA now. Also note that EVERY picture seen of shot up autos and building reflect the scars of full auto fire, not being something you can stroll into a gun store and purchase in California, or any other state for that matter.

This is just another example of the attempt to whip up the public sentiment to except more restrictions of our God given right to self- defense from governmental thugs. If we allow this to happen, we too will be fantasizing about our freedom while attempting to increase the lethality of air-guns; anyone want to be a surf too?


[edit on 4/7/2009 by SGTChas]

The Survival Forum:

This forum is for the discussion of techniques and strategies related to surviving major catastrophes that may effect very-large regions or entire countries.

The relevance between this topic and the Survival Forum, was slim to begin with . Since everyone seems intent on discussing theory rather than Survival techniques, I'm moving this to Politics.

Further Off topic posts will be removed.

The Topic:

Obama's Gun Ban List Is Out

I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with the statements of firearm control, since many American citizens that own guns obviously will vote against them. Those that oppose them need to look at facts and realize that in most states, if you're convicted of a felony, it's illegal for you to own a gun.
I honestly believe a thorough psychological evaluation should be required as well as a background check. It'll inconvenience avid gun lovers, and maybe even first time buyers but a little. I'd go through a psych-evaluation to buy a firearm, I'll do the classes every year that are required for a Concealed carry permit in my state, but I also agree that far too many stupid people have guns.

Marines are a little overrated, they have done amazing things in the past, but they're not the same Marines as they are today. Amazing people make amazing Marines, Rangers, Green Berets, SEALs, and what have you, not even the most excellent training can cure stupidity.

I know what gang violence can do to a neighborhood, and so I can on some level understand what the gun control advocates are thinking, but if the criminals know that people don't have any weapons, while they're strapped with a TEC9 or Glock, they're going to be bolder than before. There's a town somewhere in Virginia I believe, that Requires that every household has at least one gun. Crime rates are some of the lowest in the country. Why? Because criminals know that people have guns.

psychological evaluation? Well who decides whos crazy or not? The government? They can create their own "go no go" standards. It will sound something like this.... Have you ever rolled through a stop sign? Yes. Im sorry but your too unstable to own a gun. If you add up all the gun owners in America its only a small small number that go crazy.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by tac109]

I don't think it'll be quite that strict, but I think it should be like the Concealed Carry classes, you take it once every X-number of years, and are given a card or license that you present at the time of your purchase with an ID. It's not a concrete idea, I'm just stating what I think. The Government, in all of their intelligence would find a way to f--- it up, but they always find a way to F--- things up.

Anywho... I understand that only a majority of legal gun owners are crazy, but most people don't.

I agree mate. It's like I said, the government can F--- up a totally fool proof plan.

It's one of the strange things that happens. One person comes up with a good idea, and the next person in line screws it up.

Now my view on all this is that banning guns does not help. I have said this before. If you make it a crime to own a gun in order to prevent people committing crimes then your head must be thicker than the walls of the presidents bunker. I mean come on please think about it people. If they are going to commit a crime with a gun then making it a crime to have the then they don't give a **** because they were already going to commit a crime anyway. Besides if I want to kill someone I can just take a kitchen knife walk up beside someone and stick it in them. Its actually a lot easier than trying to get away with it when you are using a gun. In Britain all violent gun crime has gone up since the gun ban. If I want to get a gun for illegal purposes I know people who can get me them .

Then when the government realises that they have screwed up they say that they meant something different so what they said when they banned the guns out. First they said that they were banning guns to stop them being used for illegal purposes and to harm people. Then when they realised that they had messed up they turned around and said that what they meant was that they didn't want people being accidently harmed by legally owned guns. WTF!?! That is the compete opposite of what you originally said and there never was a problem with people being accidently harmed. *sigh* Sometimes I just want to give up on the people in this world and say F it I will do it my way.
Right who is next up .

-Cauch1

Originally posted by tac109
Our USMC base camp pendleton is almost half the size of your country alone.

That's plain silly

195 sq mi - Camp Pendleton
94,526 sq mi - UK