Pastor Shot During Service

Originally posted by sadchild01
reply to post by moocowman

 

the problem you seem to be refering to is a big one in western nations , but thankfully not in Russia or india amongst the christians .

I dont know but people here are a bunch of islam haters and israel lovers and the biggest bunch of hypocrites, despite the fact they are screwed left and right by Israel(israhell)

NOT fair or true at all. You owe me an apology .

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Sestias
Um, I posted a thread on this at 2:25 this afternoon, before yours and before the other guy's whose thread you commented in, over in Breaking Alternative News.

I think it would be good if people did a search before starting a thread.

However, you posted in a whole different forum, and your thread is interesting, so carry on.

For those who wish to join my conversation,
My thread is:
Above Top Secret

Thanks

Actually I did, and always do search for previous threads, nothing showed up.

I didn't see anything either when posting my version of that hoopla. Sometimes it happens that a post doesn't activate right away -- I saw it happen couple of times.

I'm not sure why that dude is trying to copyright his OP. I didn't like the comment in it -- nothing much to go on.

reply to post by Kaifan


This is a wise comment. I am not sure where you stand with your faith but right now it does not matter. What matters is that you have shown wisdom in your post. Your right in saying even if there is no God (I believe there is though) the poster taints themselves. I think the posters agenda is quite clear and is nothing but hate speech in my opinion.

Some hearts are hardened and will remain so. The shooter while quite possibly suffering brain damage also could have been suffering from a heart that was hard and lacking in a deeper love. If the shooters wounds turn out to be self inflicted this would be even more possible in my opinion.

It is nice to see posts such as yours on ATS. Thank you for such a post.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


Thanks for your comment, i do believe in God, i just don't believe in the same way as other people do.

I mean, on every single place, at every single moment, there are several levels of truth, it depends on who is watching, how deep he can see, the deeper you go, the faster the physical things loose value.

So how can some people believe that God cares more about physical things than spiritual ones? like in the comment about God asking for material things or doings, that's just what humans tend to do, to use symbols and perform worshiping in certain ways, but that by no means indicates God's way, it is just human doings, God didn't ask for that, people have forgotten how to understand God, and most people are trying to perceive God the same way they can with material things, they just can't see beyond that, which is sad.

Just a bit of an update on the incident in the OP.

Fox - Motive Remains a Mystery

MARYVILLE, Ill. — Terry J. Sedlacek was called a quiet teen who washed dishes and helped prepare food at his family's restaurant. After a hospitalization during which he almost died, he became known for odd behavior, such as making barking noises. His body would sometimes jerk.

The article goes on to state..

"We're still not sure what the reasoning was," said Illinois State Police Lt. Scott Compton, who added investigators had not yet interviewed Sedlacek on Monday afternoon.

However, authorities say Sedlacek appeared to have planned the attack, since he referred to Sunday as "death day" on a planner found in his Troy home and he carried enough ammunition to kill 30 people.

Not sure if this sheds any new light or not. However, it is the only new information I have seen on it and it appears to show he may have intended to hurt more people than just the pastor.

reply to post by Frogs


I will not say the man was possessed because I doubt that was the case. But after reading that it reminds me of some possession stories due to behavior. Again I doubt the man was possessed more likely this is all a reaction to the untreated Lyme’s disease and the brain damage it caused.

I am thinking more that this man might have went to the pastor in the past seeking help for his condition and ended up empty handed. When I say that I am not attacking the pastor or his denomination or the shooter for that matter. But experience has shown me that many denominations do not practice healing and in many cases people often feel doubt about the healing they are asking for.

Maybe the shooter felt he was possessed and went seeking help for that. I have seen even fewer attempts by different denominations on this sort of thing. Many feel that the gifts of God have passed and were only usable around the time of the disciples.

I still refuse to blame the victim just yet (though there are many whose first thoughts were about wrong doing on the pastor’s side). Until I see evidence otherwise I will continue to believe the individual was suffering some sort of mental problem. More so I think he sought help from the pastor at some time that the pastor could not provide. This made the man angry but his rage was directed at God through the pastor. In other words since he could not attack God face to face he took on the thing he seen as the next best option.


Raist

At this point I'm not sure we can pin down what his motives were.

CNN has picked up the story now and had this bit of info to add.

CNN - Church Shooting Suspect Planned "Day of Death"

Melton, one of the two church members stabbed in the attack, described the scene that erupted during Sunday service.

Winters had been preaching for a while when the gunman approached him, Melton told CNN.

"It just seemed a lot out of place for someone to be walking to the front to take a seat at that point in the service," Melton said.

Winters stopped his sermon and asked the man what he could do for him, Melton said.

The assailant fired a weapon and hit the pastor's Bible, causing "confetti" to fly into the air, Melton recalled.

"It was a bit confusing just at first," Melton said, adding that he could see from the pastor's reaction that what happened was not part of the service.

Melton was one of two men who first jumped the assailant, he said.

"By the time the second shot rang out, there were a number of us who sprang into action," Melton said.

Winters jumped off the stage, Melton said, and was met by the gunman. The two wrestled and more shots rang out.

The attacker's .45-caliber weapon jammed at that point, authorities said.

The assailant tried to get away but was subdued by church members, some of whom blocked the entrances while others grappled with the gunman.

This would lead me to think he might have not been known by the pastor.

For what its worth, I have been in church where a homeless person has came in during the service. It is rare, but I have seen it happen where the homeless person has walked up to the front of the church. At this point the pastor I saw did just as described in the article. He stopped the service and asked "Yes? How can I help you?"

Basically, very similar to how events unfolded in the shooting, according to the article.

Of course, in my case it turned out the man stated he wanted food and someone took him to get some from the church food bank.

It is rare - but it has happened on occasion.

It is possible the pastor may not have known him at all.



[edit on 10-3-2009 by Frogs]

reply to post by Frogs

For what its worth, I have been in church where a homeless person has came in during the service. It is rare, but I have seen it happen where the homeless person has walked up to the front of the church. At this point the pastor I saw did just as described in the article. He stopped the service and asked "Yes? How can I help you?"

I go to inner city churches, you see some strange things.

Once a homeless couple came in during service, the pastor immediately asked if they needed help,they were stranded and wanted help getting to their home, out of town,

We immediately without question took up a donation,

There was this one guy who often came in during praise and worship and danced around the church for a short while, then would leave, I see stuff like this all the time.

And yes, sometimes I am afraid.

Sometimes I sit in the back and keep an eye on things,

I'm disgusted by a lot of the comments in this thread.

A man has been murdered and you feel the need to make tasteless comments at his expense and at the expense of his family based solely on the fact that he has faith.

My best wishes to the family in this difficult time.

Who knows maybe the pastor was a child molester and got what he had comin? not saying its the case but its the only justifyable reason i see

Bump,

Some of the comments were interesting

Church shootings across the United States

www.buffalonews.com...

June 17, Charleston, S.C. – Nine people were killed and one was wounded at a prayer meeting at a historic black church. A suspect, Dylann Storm Roof, 21, was captured in North Carolina, 200 miles away.

October 2012, College Park, Ga. – A volunteer leading a prayer service at megachurch World Changers Church International was shot and killed by Floyd Palmer, a former church maintenance employee. Palmer was arrested later at a shopping mall.

February 2010, Richmond, Calif. – Three hooded men walked into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ, opened fire and then fled. A 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man were wounded.

March 2009, Maryville, Ill. – Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, walked into the First Baptist Church, and shot pastor Fred Winters dead at point-blank range. Several church members were injured by a knife in the struggle to capture the man.

July 2008, Knoxville, Tenn. – A gunman killed two people and injured seven during a youth performance at Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church.

December 2007, Arvada, Colo. – In the early morning hours, Matthew J. Murray, 24, killed two people and wounded two with a pistol at the Youth With a Mission training center. Later that day he attacked the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, killing two more people and injuring three. He was wounded by a member of the congregation and then committed suicide.

August 2007, Neosho, Mo. – Eiken Elam opened fire in First Congregational Church, killing three people and wounding several others.

May 2006, Baton Rouge, La. – Anthony Bell killed four people and wounded one on a Sunday morning at the Ministry of Jesus Christ church. He then abducted his wife and killed her at another location. He was captured at an apartment complex.

February 2006, Detroit – A domestic dispute was blamed when a gunman killed a woman and wounded two others at a Sunday service being held at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church. The gunman then committed suicide.

April 2005, College Park, Ga. – A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church where he had once worked as a security guard.

March 2005, Brookfield, Wis.: Terry Ratzmann killed seven people and wounded four at the Living Church of God before taking his own life.

]

Terry Sedlacek Unfit: Court Says Man Accused Of Killing Illinois Pastor Still Mentally Unfit For Trial
AP | By JIM SUHR
Posted: 03/31/2013 10:22 am EDT

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: lucidwave
Horrible. Not good at all. Watch now they'll try to use this as an "example" why there should be more gun control. Interesting to see how this story will unravel.

Will they use it as an "example", or just show the reality that gun crime in the US is out of control?
What would you prefer, a blanket ban on the reporting of all gun crime because it makes you feel bad about your opposition to sensible gun control?

The fact is this is happening, you don't need people pointing out the stupidity of gun laws in the US, this is actually happening all over your country every damn day, it's not propaganda, it's not manufactured, it's not some kind of "liberal conspiracy".