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Pastor Shot During Service

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posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


the problem you seem to be refering to is a big one in western nations , but thankfully not in Russia or india amongst the christians .

I dont know but people here are a bunch of islam haters and israel lovers and the biggest bunch of hypocrites, despite the fact they are screwed left and right by Israel(israhell)




posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Supercertari
 


Hi Super, people have been conditioned to immediately blame the victim.


75% of adults in America consider themselves Christian, according to 2006 stats.,

People seem to focus on the negative, and past actions, never giving consideration of how far Christianity has progressed.
www.persecutionblog.com...

www.persecution.org...



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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www.canlyme.com...


Mental illnesses constitute a large and growing portion of the world's health problems. According to the World Health Organization, depression is one of the most debilitating of diseases, on a par with paraplegia. Psychiatric illnesses make up more than 10 percent of the world's "disease burden" (a measure of how debilitating a disease is), and are expected to increase to 15 percent by 2020. Much of this may be the work of viruses, bacteria and parasites. Psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, of the Stanley Medical Research Institute in Maryland, has found from studying historical asylum records that hot spots-higher-than normal incidences-of mental illness can shift, much like infectious-disease outbreaks, which lends credence to the notion that infectious agents play a big role. "Mental disorders are the major chronic recurrent disorders of youth in all developed countries," says Harvard policy expert Ronald Kessler, who directs the WHO's mental-health surveys.

Perhaps the most well known disease that's been linked to mental disorders is Lyme disease, which is caused by the Borrelia burgdorferi germ. First identified in the mid-1970s among children near Lyme, Connecticut, the disease has long been known to cause nervous-system problems and achy joints if left untreated. Now scientists are finding that Lyme disease can also trigger a whole smorgasbord of psychiatric symptoms, including depression. One New York man (we'll call him Joe) found out firsthand how debilitating the disease can be. When he began having bouts of major depression back in 1992, he had forgotten all about the tick bite he had gotten four years earlier. He spent two years in a blur of antipsychotic drugs, mental institutions, jails and suicide attempts. On a hunch, a doctor at a psychiatric hospital in New Jersey had Joe tested for Lyme disease. After an intensive course of antibiotics, Joe's improvement was dramatic and immediate. "I started to have this fog lift," he recalls. Still, he will probably have to be on psychotropic drugs for the rest of his life.

Some psychiatrists fret that there may be thousands of people suffering from Lyme- induced depression without knowing why. Not only is Lyme disease tricky to diagnose-not everybody gets the circular rash, and lab tests still aren't wholly reliable-it can take a decade or more for mental disorders to set in.


This makes me wonder how many of us may be going undiagnosed.

How many people do you know on antidepressants?
Lyme Disease Epidemic Causing Healthcare Crisis


An ongoing battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease, a tick-borne illness, is pitting doctors against doctors, prompting health insurance companies to deny medical claims at an alarming rate, and leaving suffering patients stuck in the middle.

Transmitted through the bite of a tick, the number of Lyme disease cases in the United States has doubled since 1991-with at least 27,000 new cases reported each year. But because of inaccurate tests and under-reporting the actual numbers may be up to 12 times higher, according to the CDC, making Lyme disease an epidemic larger than AIDS, West Nile Virus and Avian Flu combined.

Tens of thousands of people suffer from what they say are the debilitating effects of chronic Lyme disease, which can lead to lifelong disabilities or even death. Yet many doctors deny that such a disease even exists, and doctors willing to treat it using long-term antibiotic therapy have faced losing their medical licenses.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by HugmyRek
 


I understand where you are coming from.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I have to say, the first thing that sprung to mind was that this pastor might have been guilty of doing something awful with a child.


Right, but I was thinking with the shooter in particular. The guy tried to cut his own throat afterwards like a murder-suicide type thing.

Peace




[edit on 9-3-2009 by Dr Love]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


My money is on:
the guy is crazy. And went off. Because he weilded a knife and attacked himself. Someone for revenge would of shot him and dissappaeared. And may not of done it in a public setting where he would be caught.

If it is not just a case of crazy. Then I am going for the pastor either had an affair, or screwed someone out of money.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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Maybe I misread something or missed something, but is it clear that the knife wounds sustained by the shooter were a suicide attempt? I had the initial impression that they could have been accidental...

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I'm curious about that, too. The article made it sound like it was accidental and happened to him and two church goers in the struggle.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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This is commonplace throughout the world. Christians and particularly pastors, being slaughtered simply for what they believe. For the discerning it should be obvious that there is a spiritual pattern here. A malign supernatural spiritual force is at work against all those who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

This malign force is gaining momentum in the west as most have abandoned their faith. In fact only 4% of Americans have a genuine Biblical worldview.

www.bpnews.net...



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Let's discuss the topic and not one another.

The topic is: Pastor shot during service.

Why?

I have to say, the first thing that sprung to mind was that this pastor might have been guilty of doing something awful with a child.

The second thing that came to mind was that he might have stolen money from the congregation.

Nothing's to say that this wasn't a random, unprovoked incident, but I suspect otherwise.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if more information surfaces.


Really!

The first thing that came to my mind is that a hate filled left wing liberal lunatic (the sort that declare war on Christianity by spewing ignorant deceptive propaganda to insite hatred against christians) is responsible for this tragedy.

My thoughts and prays go out to the Family, friends, and members of the Pastors church.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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The guy was apparently suffering from brain lesions caused by untreated Lyme's disease, I think we're dealing with someone mentally ill, not someone with a "liberal" (or even political at all) agenda.

Actually the last time we had a church attack like this that was motivated by politics, it was a crazy rightwinger, Jim Adkisson, who attacked a Unitarian church service, shooting a shotgun hat helpless old women and children:


During the interview Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office. Adkisson stated that he had held these beliefs for about the last ten years.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
I did a little snooping around the 'Net and came up with plenty of news articles on this incident, but it seems precious little additional information is available still. The best I could come up with was this:

The gunman strode down the aisle of the sprawling First Baptist Church shortly after 8 a.m. and briefly spoke with The Rev. Fred Winters, then pulled out a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and began firing until it jammed, Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent said. Churchgoers wrestled the gunman to the ground as he waved a knife, slashing himself and two other people, Trent said.
Source: news.yahoo.com...
(Emphasis mine)

I realize it's not much, but it makes me wonder if the pastor actually knew the shooter. The Yahoo story states the members of the congregation didn't know him. It also says he is from Troy, IL, a place I know too well because it has one of the last decent truck stops before you hit St. Louis; I've stopped there many a time. Troy is not a crime-free area, but more the opposite.

I dunno, I'm afraid to speculate any more... but if there's going to start being shootings in churches now, I would like to know why... I guess I'm hoping this is an isolated incident. So much hatred now-a-days...

TheRedneck
Edit to add: Raist:



[edit on 8-3-2009 by TheRedneck]



Isn't it weird how just one incident will spark others. Like nobody did school shootings and then columbine came along and got huge publicity and then over the next coupld years you see more of it.

Seems like once one person does it, it almost like releases the go-ahead for others to start.

I hope nothing else happens though, this would be a horrible trend at such a weird not so grand time in our country.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Supercertari

Forgive me for taking a while to reply to this. I was trying to decide how to respond.


Would it be acceptable were an african american to have been shot to sit back and ask "maybe he was guilty of trying to sleep with a white-man's wife? He might have stolen my neighbour's pick-up truck?"

Somehow I feel as though I have just been called on the carpet. The normal reaction would be, I suppose, to defend myself. I'm not going to do so. SuperCertari, you are absolutely correct. I did the same thing WyrdeOne did, and for that I should be and am truly ashamed.

I am also unsettled. Why would I make those leaps of logic? Am I becoming so cynical, so untrusting of human nature that I am in danger of becoming that weird old man who lives alone and hates everyone around him? You know, the one that scares the kids...


As it is it seems that a man with a medical condition was brought to a point of extremis for him, the pastor and the congregation we can but pray in the solidarity of the Body of Christ while the crows pick at his body hoping to find another string to add to their war-bows.

Way ahead of you there. My prayers and thoughts are always with those who have come face to face with the evil this man faced.

I am still a bit confused about the mental illness idea though. Why, if the man was out of his mind, would he talk to the pastor before the incident? Wouldn't someone who was 'rabid' be more likely to just walk in and fire away without a word, much less without calmly talking with the pastor before killing him?

No more speculations from me (I've learned my lesson
), but this just doesn't ring of the whole truthful story.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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The reason I wonder about motive is because he didn't shoot the first person he saw. He was going after that Pastor, and no one else. The motive could range from something horrible... all the way to the Pastor cut him off in traffic.

He wanted to kill that pastor, the Lyme disease may have only allowed the action to follow a longer thought process.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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More information, but still less than I would like:


"The only thing we know is that the suspect said something to the pastor and the pastor said something back to him. We don't know what that was," Trent told reporters Sunday afternoon. "It was almost as if the pastor may have recognized him, but we're not sure about that at all."

*snip*

Earlier reports from authorities said the man may have turned the knife on himself, but Trent said that was not confirmed.

"When he was tackled by two of the members, we don't know whether he fell on the knife, injuring himself at the time, or whether [his injury] was self-inflicted during the struggle," Trent said.
Source: www.cnn.com...

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by LucidDreamer85
 


Not really. Those events are nothing new either.

Many people idolize the wild west which is nothing more then gun men walking around shooting up civilians.

since it is in a historical context, people are emotionally removed from it. But I am sure it was just as traumatizing to them as our events are to us.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin

Where's your God now?


Same place where he has always been.



No, seriously... If you believe in God, ask yourself why would he allow a preacher to be shot.



That's easy to answer, why would God allow a preacher to be shot?

Or a baby? or a dog on the street?

God didn't pull the trigger or did he? same answer as with other problems out there, guns don't kill people, people kill people.



Then tell me if God is so all-powerful and miraculous, why has he never healed a single amputee?


Why just amputees, why not aids, cancer, flu, etc, why fire burns, water can kill you and some plants and fishes are venom to human beings?

Do you actually believe the earth is here because of us? what makes you think we are that important?



You are okay with worshiping an unethical, spiteful, jealous being that gets off on watching babies and preachers die, and then demands you do what he says, or he locks you in the basement on fire for eternity.


Have you seen how God loves to see all that?

Did he came by to your house to ask you to do the worshiping and all that?

You are just bitter, why? did you expected miracles to happen everywhere just because you asked and when nothing happened you turned into this?

The preacher died because he, as the rest of us, is just a human being, he didn't have special powers and not because he was a preacher he was supposed to be immortal, stop blaming God for what the human beings do.

This is getting old, people are people, they are supposed to die if someone comes and shoots at them, or get hit by a car, or get sick, or fall from a high place.

This has nothing to do with God, God has nothing to do with this.

This is funny, because you are so desperate to blame God, you taint yourself, if you were to stop blaming things on someone who was not even there you could maybe find a better road to be happy, instead of looking at everything the way you do right now.

It doesn't matter if there is a God or not, you comment is totally wrong and it just proves nothing.



[edit on 9-3-2009 by Kaifan]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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More updates:


A prosecutor says the 27-year-old man charged with gunning down a suburban St. Louis pastor in the middle of his sermon marked the day as "death day" in a planner.

Madison County State's Attorney William Mudge says investigators found the planner in the home of alleged gunman Terry J. Sedlacek
Source: www.google.com...

So it appears this may well have been my worst fears: someone with a grudge. It also is starting to appear that it was an attempted suicide as well, as several stories are mentioning the shooter's wounds as 'self-inflicted'. Thus far, these descriptions are apparently unsupported by explicit sources, however.

I'll keep trying to keep y'all informed.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Let's discuss the topic and not one another.

The topic is: Pastor shot during service.

Why?

I have to say, the first thing that sprung to mind was that this pastor might have been guilty of doing something awful with a child.

The second thing that came to mind was that he might have stolen money from the congregation.

Nothing's to say that this wasn't a random, unprovoked incident, but I suspect otherwise.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if more information surfaces.


Thats not fair, you know I am related to the sheriff in Lawrence that helped stop one of these planned murder sprees in the local churches there, and if you read some of the comments in this thread you can see the type of mentality which burns with hatred for Christianity.

Pleas dont make it ok to be guilty without charge, he could ahve been the sweetest man ever, and his family just might google their way onto this forum one day and see your comments.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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I cant imagine how the congregation is suffering, the poor children that witnessed the event. Tragic.



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