when SHTF where do we go and how long is it going to last

when SHTF where do we go and how long is it going to last

www.abovetopsecret.com

quote]Originally posted by pieman
survival stuff on ATS is usually about the best gun or how to live for a month with nothing but a knife and a piece of string. this stuff is probably the most enjoyable stuff to imagine but realistically it is not how things are going to work out.

initially, your buried supplies are going to be a god send, i'm sure, but two weeks later it might seem a long walk to go dig that stuff up. you may wish you thought the whole thing through a little more.

all this taking down deer with a stick and two big stones survivalism might possibly, at a stretch, be useful but realistically, there is practically no sitx i can think of that would make individualist survival a preferable solution in anything but the short term.

in most sitx's, you're probably looking at rural, farmstead community living asap after the shtf. you need to think about community living and what skills you can contribute to a small community. you need something you can trade on.

basic carpentry, metal working, stone masonry, basket making, basic vegetable growing skills, boat building, net making or something practical like that is going to be far more beneficial to you in the medium to long term than knowing how to make a snare or a shelter from leaves and twigs.



i'm not saying that preparing for the first week isn't important, i'm saying that preparing for the rest of your life is important as well. it's just something i think needs a little discussion.

[edit on 29/1/09 by pieman]

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In the likely event of REX84 or the fema concentration camp or whatever happens. I am planning on hitting the woods. i am going to abandon my home and vehicles, grab my survival tools and some personal protection. But, I live in rural Alabama. do I head North? West? Sit still and wait it out? Or try and find a miltia to group with? I havee a wife and 2 kids, and they are my main concern. Can someone help?

www.abovetopsecret.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I think this is a fair question. It's basically the issue that I've been turning over in my head for the last ten years.

On a general level the problem is no one knows. Very few of us know what's going to happen in the future, that's why we come here, to try and make sense of the whole thing.

I can't advise you on the specifics of Alabama, but I find it helpful to divide my thinking on SHTF into three sections....

1) Logical Analysis

Where are the safest, highest areas? Where is there an abundance of food or farmland? What places are hidden and likely to be overlooked by roving hoards of hungry people? Are there natural water supplies?


2) Gut Feeling/Intuition

I don't know how much you trust your intuition, but if you stay calm and just try and let things flow I find nature/God kind of guides you to the right decision. I like to sleep on things, it helps me process information. Fear kills intuition. Stay cool and calm and maybe the answers will come.

3) Insider information

There's a few people on this board that really know what they're doing. I'm not one of them. You can spot them if you dig deep enough. Contact them via U2U if you think they might be "connected". I try not to bug them, but they are often ignored here, and a lot of them open up if you know how to chat. Maybe there's someone who knows about geo-politics, and even better, there's got to be a few people from Alabama here.



I find a combination of these three methods very useful.


I think the main thing is to ***prepare in advance***. Maybe get a cabin and a small plot of land now, start farming and storing food. When and if TSHTF everyone in your town is going to do exactly the same as you, hit the woods with a backpack. At least 10-20 per cent of society has an uneasy gut feeling right now...

Lastly, Pieman's post is well thought out. It's going to be the intelligent, calm, community builders who ultimately survive this thing, not the lone "survival of the fittest" Rambo types.

Good luck and see you at the freedom party.

Originally posted by realboogyman


In the likely event of REX84 or the fema concentration camp or whatever happens. I am planning on hitting the woods. i am going to abandon my home and vehicles, grab my survival tools and some personal protection. But, I live in rural Alabama. do I head North? West? Sit still and wait it out? Or try and find a miltia to group with? I havee a wife and 2 kids, and they are my main concern. Can someone help?

www.abovetopsecret.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

If i were you, i would find people you can trust and rely on for sitX. Don't try to go it alone with just the wife and kids. Who is going to protect them when you're out getting food and such? If you have a group of survivalist' then duties can be shared and no one is left unprotected.

I have been trying to figure that one out too. My pickup needs lockers on the front, the snow, going up a hill, is a challenge for it. I need to scout. But how to get there. I mean, I've read that the military locks-down freeways and highways, so, why bother? I mean, I am in DENVER, which is the new ground zero for certain. So, thanks for stressing me out. Now I must forge for a new place in the woods because my other spot is too difficult to reach with 4 wheel drive alone....

reply to post by pluckynoonez
If you can get out of denver, the area around Estes Park would be perfect. Or head straight west of Loveland. Just avoid the area around Greeley. To flat and desolate.

Hi PluckyNoonez

Denver New Ground Zero???

You could be right Ma'am, but I thought Denver was the planned centre of future world government. So it could end up being like New York or London.












[edit on 666.543f20096pm by HiAliens]

Originally posted by Anuubis
reply to post by pluckynoonez

 

If you can get out of denver, the area around Estes Park would be perfect. Or head straight west of Loveland. Just avoid the area around Greeley. Too flat and desolate.

Good advice. Greeley is an armpit anyway. It is a grid gone wrong; there, you can be standing on First and 1st street...total mind-blowing insanity trying to find your way around. I freaked out and started crying I got so lost.

I went camping near Estes Park last summer, beautiful country out there. Still, I need to route-out a plan.

reply to post by HiAliens


You're probably right...and don't call me dude.



[edit on 7-3-2009 by pluckynoonez]

Ive downloaded the google earth thing and have searched, I have sevaral springs and mountains and a river hat are within 5 to 10 miles from home, all seem to be backroads and no major cities around. I figured maybe find a spot in a central location to all.
I have talked to some close friends and they think I am crazy. They are kinda sheltered I guess, no internet and no cable or satelite. So they don't really see what I see.
i really dont want to go at this alone, (My wife is afraid of firearms, and I dont leave home without one) so she wont be able to defend herself. She kinda thinks I am turning into a miltia type. Can't blame her because of me hordeing up water and food and survival supplies.
But I feel as if i am in a stalemate. i am not thinking of the rambo type. But try and prepare, are there any websites for a list of supplies? Am i overreacting? Who knows? Wish it would hurry up and happen so I can quit fretting these things I guess.

reply to post by pluckynoonez
I got used to getting around with no problems when i lived there but i never paid attention to street names or anything. You could always move up here. It's pretty safe up here in north Idaho.

You too Realboogyman.



[edit on 8-3-2009 by Anuubis]

As far as info and supplies goes, there's a really good survival forum here with some knowledgeble people, who really know what they're doing...

You are not over-reacting, it's normal to want to prepare. Once you are prepared you can relax, right?

I would emphasise the fact that it is only a possibility to your wife, and food and water are just a bit of insurance.

[edit on 000.493f20090am by HiAliens]

Under the Greenwood Tree

(last stanza; Donovan Leitch in the hippie days also sang this song!)

Who doth ambition shun
And loves to live in the sun,
Seeking the food he eats,
And pleased with what he gets,

Come hither, come hither, come hither:
Here shall he see
No enemy
But winter and rough weather.

~~ William Shakespeare

Thoreau wrote: Wherever I sat, there I might live and:

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

In 1929 at age 29 William Graves wrote a precocious autobiography:
Good-By to All That

as he left Western civilization to return to the agricultural cycle by moving to the island of Majorca.

He wrote The White Goddess and Greek Myths I and II where he proceeded to elucidate that there was actually a matriarchal basis to civilization. The goddess in the green, white and black phases was known by many names by many societies.

Somehow, we let the patriarchal gods and prophets including the gods of capitalism
run us amok and rip us from our roots. We need to get RADICAL again.

In THE SECRET OF THE ANDES written ca. 1956 by Brother Phllip, he says that the Amethystine Order will re-orient the mineral, vegetable and animal kindoms that have been mis-used by the male polarity. And the Pilgrimage will be toward the South not the East, to the Andes not the Himalayas.

Now that every major life support system on planet earth is in a dire state of disrepair, we can only ask WHEN please is this Amethystine Ray supposed to shine its
purple love light on all sentient beings to restore earth, air, fire and water and undo the debauchery?

When I need inspiration, I also like to review The Great Invocation whose last line is:

Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth

(I sometimes add WISDOM and power.... and the words PLANTS and PLANET.)

Originally posted by realboogyman


In the likely event of REX84 or the fema concentration camp or whatever happens. I am planning on hitting the woods. i am going to abandon my home and vehicles, grab my survival tools and some personal protection. But, I live in rural Alabama. do I head North? West? Sit still and wait it out? Or try and find a miltia to group with? I havee a wife and 2 kids, and they are my main concern. Can someone help?

www.abovetopsecret.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well I'd say it depends on what happens.

A good seed pack from some place like rareseeds.net for around
$35 or more if you feel the need. Also all the bare bones basics
of survival gear would be a good idea.

They have a bill before the House to turn a "minimum" of 6 military
bases into giant FEMA camps to round up dissidents etc etc.

It is NOT to round up the cheap work force of illegals, they could
have done that years ago and have just been doing a horse and
pony show to act like they care.

If it is martial law and a gun round up you can make your choice to
stay with your family and turn in your guns, or you can get rid of
all forms of ID and go fight against that. I'd say as much as guns
have been demonized its likely a losing battle. They do not teach
the constitution in most schools anymore.

If it is a real or staged bio attack your best bet is to have a safe
room away from the major cities, because ppl are going to do
stupid things. Watch "Right at your Door" for examples.

If it is real or staged nuke attack they will strike at large population
centers and getting at least on the edge now would serve you well
and going to KI4U and reading up would be a good idea.
CDV-777 sets can be had on Ebay for under $100, they are old
but effective for what you need. Make sure and read all the
nuclear war survival skills documents if you think this is a possible
threat, and I do for various reasons.

If you live in the SW of the US where Aztlan is being implemented
you need to get the hell out now while you still can, unless your
hispanic and then you know what is coming.

If you do not know what that is, it means you prolly do not even know
someone that lives there.

If you live in a major city and the US monetary system collapses
due to the giant derivatives ponzi scheme warren buffett has
explained in great detail in marketwatch, then I'd say get out now
or soon and be ready to bugout someplace rural at the first sign
of major civil unrest.

Alot of ppl do not understand what we did when we went on fiat currency.

Alot of ppl do not understand how many derivatives are being
hidden on the OTC market as a shell game, it dwarfs the housing bubble.

If the chinese military shows up on the west coast to collect "the collateral"
that was offered them by the rockefeller CFR spokesman "Billary" then
I'd say take your family and head to the extreme remote wildnerness
that is rocky and does not look good for farming.

Remember, rockefeller publicly stated he thinks the chinese model
is the closest thing to perfection he has seen.

They will want the good farm land and will come for it for all the
money they loaned us and the US defaulting on it is part of the
setup to get them angry enough to help out with rule #1 on the
Georgia Guidestones.

I think the chinese may get even for the war crimes that happened
during WW2 with japan, so we do not have to worry about japan
also showing up to collect land and other items of value on the
massive US debt they hold.

The Israel-Iran and middle east thing will continue to go sour
and may escalate into open hostilities once Iran feels they have
enough nuclear material for several bombs, they have enough for
one now or so the story goes.

If we get sucked into defending Israel from all comers that will cause
some serious issues back here in the states when most ppl find out
about the 5 dancing israelis on 911 in NYC who were sent there
to film the event.

When some of the militias rise up and do some crazy stuff, I'd
take my family and head for the hills and make the best of it and
come back later once it ends or gets calm enough to do so.

Bring crank radios and flashlights, store them in ammo cans
from military surplus with a soft still viable rubber seal.

Asking how long numerous and various unknown events will last is
like asking when and where will I have flat tires on all the vehicles
I will own for the rest of my life.

Survival is about preparing for surprises, and the many things that
are coming will happen at an time unknown to most if not all ppl.

Good Luck to you all !


[edit on 8-3-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

[

In THE SECRET OF THE ANDES written ca. 1956 by Brother Phllip, he says that the Amethystine Order will re-orient the mineral, vegetable and animal kindoms that have been mis-used by the male polarity. And the Pilgrimage will be toward the South not the East, to the Andes not the Himalayas.

Respects, But that was written before pole shift was rediscovered by modern mystics, shaman, scientists etc

What is this nonsense about hoarding bullets and guns?

I hope I am not in the minority when I proclaim that the MEEK WILL inherit the earth while the violent can kill each other for the meat in the freezers and the video games
if that is their sport.

Frankly, this society could learn a lesson or twelve about fasting.
Obesity is a national flaw!

There is also an Indian man who has lived on sunlight for a couple of decades!

The biggest problem I think is the banks putting people out of their homes and the utilities turning off the light and heats.

Since a lot of big box stores, commercial properties and malls will be vacant, maybe we can turn them and RVs into homeless shelters.

MOST people will not be able to afford to drive the 6 mile per gallon alligators when the gas goes back up to $4 and more a gallon by this summer which David Blume recently predicted - his site: AlcoholCanBeAGas.com

He reports that the GUV is telling people to build their still and THEN come get a permit since they have been swamped with applications.

well hordeing bullets and guns, bacause if the Gov't tries to take them some predict and uproar panic in the streets.

I have seeds like okra and squash in the freezer. ready to snatch em out when things get ugly.
have really no clue what to do or what to expect. I am going on primitive human instincts and that would be SURVIVE. Protect my family.
If it is a FEMA round up, well I will run and hidemy family and do anything possible to garantee my family life. I wont just load my family and myself up and gve in. even if FEMA is for "Protection" and dont kill people, i have a family and I wont be seperated from them.
Whether it is WW3, nuke attacks, FEMA, NWO, UFO, ET, or whatever I wont "give in" I will sit and wait if it is the rapture.
But where and when do i know to bug-out?
Sorry if I was rambling

Originally posted by realboogyman
well hordeing bullets and guns, bacause if the Gov't tries to take them some predict and uproar panic in the streets.


I am a child of the sixties and can only see the planes turning into butterflies across the nation. One of the problems with the Internet is that too many men posted on it from the git go and they created a world full of fear as they before that had made a world full of military might and weapons.

I refuse to live my life in fear. I reject war and thoughts of aggression.
Video games have fed the frenzy.

After Woodstock... we were half a million strong.

I know this sounds pollyanna but imagine a silver cone of power around your head and you can twirl away the evil empire!

And the world will be a better place when more women post on the internet because in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make and nothing not even great armies can defeat the eternal feminine!

Keeping guns in one's house? that is NUTS, more people get killed by guns in their own houses than by strangers sin duda. We can only anticipate that the nuts will be out in the street dancing around loaded down with their weapons. We can only imagine the outcome.

reply to post by EarthShine




Ouch. someone is "dangerously" out of touch with reality. No silver cone of love around your head is going to save you when the balloon goes up, which is sooonish. Think the next 3 years.

Originally posted by EarthShine

Originally posted by realboogyman
well hordeing bullets and guns, bacause if the Gov't tries to take them some predict and uproar panic in the streets.


I am a child of the sixties and can only see the planes turning into butterflies across the nation. One of the problems with the Internet is that too many men posted on it from the git go and they created a world full of fear as they before that had made a world full of military might and weapons.

I refuse to live my life in fear. I reject war and thoughts of aggression.
Video games have fed the frenzy.

After Woodstock... we were half a million strong.

I know this sounds pollyanna but imagine a silver cone of power around your head and you can twirl away the evil empire!

And the world will be a better place when more women post on the internet because in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make and nothing not even great armies can defeat the eternal feminine!

Keeping guns in one's house? that is NUTS, more people get killed by guns in their own houses than by strangers sin duda. We can only anticipate that the nuts will be out in the street dancing around loaded down with their weapons. We can only imagine the outcome.

I respect you on this. I just hope you are not sheltering yourself from the seriousness of this. Either guns are good or guns are bad. Depends on who's hands they are in. The silver cone of power around, Well I am not to sure what you mean by that. I am suppose to think and the evil empire will disappear?

Originally posted by realboogyman

I respect you on this. I just hope you are not sheltering yourself from the seriousness of this. Either guns are good or guns are bad. Depends on who's hands they are in. The silver cone of power around, Well I am not to sure what you mean by that. I am suppose to think and the evil empire will disappear?

Someone has to stop the madness starting sometime!

After reading about esoteric and ET subjects for years, i think that there is a good possibility that someone dropped off junk DNA here and it multiplied fast.

The results: modern civilization on planet hurt full of trashed life support systems amid a sea of ignorance - maybe that should be the new name of earth: planet hurt.

Someone mentioned on CoasttoCoastam.com several years ago that humans were an experiment in a Petrie dish - and the experiment has failed, and we are about to be snuffed out.

Long live the bacteria and mycelium! Poet Robinson Jeffers had an angle:

"One of his favorite themes was the intense, rugged beauty of the landscape in opposition to the degraded and introverted condition of modern man.

"Strongly influenced by Nietzsche's concepts of individualism, Jeffers believed that human beings had developed an insanely self-centered view of the world, and felt passionately that we must learn to have greater respect for the rest of creation."

from www.poets.org...

If the bullion bullies need to defend their treasures from the hungry masses, there
could be civil strife. I do not want any part of it. In fact, I will sit right down and
hum OM or AUM however the heck ya spell it to make them go away.

Truthfully, I think that I was dropped off on the wrong planet, and the paths
to peace are only dimly illuminated to those who work for peace, the
world servers.

I think about the HERMIT CARD in the Smith-Waite Tarot deck
where a man is walking alone with a lantern in the forest in the dead of night
or the woman with a garland of flowers guiding the lion, the STRENGTH CARD.

It was supposedly (according to some research I have done) wise women dancing in circles with cones around their crown chakras that kept Napoleon and Hitler from world conquest. (AHA! and you thought it was guns and planes....)

Funneling the power of the moon, of course, has always been an activity to which
women have a natural affinity. Coning the moon, moon in the cone, we chaser the moon, we lead her home...!

As Dylan said: the old world is rapidly fading... getting to a new pastoral mindful space with clean air and the old fashioned ways of sharing one's abundance from
garden and food storage husbandry may be a Shangrilai or Brigadoon
fantasy.

But as William Butler Yeats rhapsodized:

~~~ Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,

The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half-light,

I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;

I have spread my dreams under your feet;

Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. ~~~

Yeats himself had been part of a witches coven but reportedly
dropped out after Aleister Crowley joined.

One can certainly pick one's magic in this potpourri world.

I will maintain that white is the only way to fly
and thank the goddess that the plant spirit ways to her radiance
are abundant in nature though widely suppressed by the ruling class.

It seems that Machiavellian tactics and not the ways of the Goddess
have dominated our leaders.

But what the hell!

Blessed be begorra!

Maybe this is our wake up call.



[edit on 13-3-2009 by EarthShine]