Iran Buying S300; Israel Ready For Attack

Originally posted by dooper
Now if Iraq can fight Iran to a standstill for eight years, and the US and British forces went through Iraq like crap through a goose, defeating the Iraqi military in a couple weeks, then I'd like for a pseudo-intellectual such as yourself, to tell me the error of my ways.

Error of your ways? You just called a nation of 66 million people idiots because of the incompetence of a handful of people, in comparison. Going by your logic and seeing as how America is doing in the middle east, I can't imagine what sort of names you'd call yourself. Against the T&C I'm sure!

[edit on 16/3/09 by Navieko]

Hey, I call it as I see it. You must have not read some of my post. I also pointed out that every time this Persian people met and fought against a Western Power, they have a perfect record that has weathered two and a half millennia.

Our military did well. Our politicians gave them a non-military mission. Had they just been turned loose to do what they are designed to do, we'd have been home a couple months after we started.

You don't use a twenty-pound sledge hammer in watch making, and you don't use a war machine to make peace.

You kill the SOB's where you find them, never spend two meals in the same spot, and you keep moving. The more you kill the faster, the quicker a fight is over, and you get to go home.

So no, our military was tasked with the impossible task of bringing "Democracy" to another bunch of idiots.

To reiterate, this country of Persians is overly emotional, easily stirred, and unbelievably idiotic when it comes to the fighting. Brave? Sure. They'll let you mow them down by the thousands.

Smart? Right up to the moment you push their button, and steer these emotional peoples to your carefully prepared destruction.

That's why Israel does so well. A nation of Western immigrants, they THINK! Not run off screaming in all directions at once.

They can't even hold a damned funeral!

Spilled that Ayatollah Khomeini right out of his box and into the dirt! You know that made momma proud.

As I said. Idiots.

I suggest that we all read this:

Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

The insults need to stop now..

Please

Semper

Originally posted by dooper
... Israel defeated a much larger coalition of Iraq, Syria, and Egypt. ...
... And I'm supposed to think that Israel is going to have trouble out of Iran?

Israel did poorly against Hezbollah in the 2006 Lebanon War. The number of Hezbollah militiamen was estimated to be about 3,000 at that time.
Iran's regular army is estimated to be about 500,000 men.

Originally posted by dooper
With one brief exception, there is one thing about the Israelis that you can count on: They'll do the most unexpected thing in the most unexpected way, at the most unexpected time.

Even if Israel wanted to deliver nukes to Iran, they don't need their jets to perform the delivery. They just need to use the jets to perform a series of diversions.

Just as did Alexander and Grant did. To defend everywhere is to defend nothing. To ignore threats is to fall. So Iran would react in predictable ways, ways that are easily anticipated and then circumvented.

The Israelis, like it or not, are some of the more brilliant military in the world, and the same cannot be said of their Iranian opponents. The Iranians, are so . . . . overly EMOTIONAL.

A good thing to know, a good thing to play upon.

What most people don't know is that the Iranian border isn't as locked down as they would suggest. And the sea. There's always the sea.

Extended range cruise missiles, some for drawing attention and thus AA fire, some for misdirection purposes, and while conducting multiple threats from multiple direction, and bundles of multiple threats, one is able to do some very slick things during the confusion and ultimately, sheer exhaustion.

And just when they relax . . .

I have no idea of whether Israel will attack Iran or not. And the Russian missiles won't make a bit of difference in whether or not the Israelis attack, and certainly won't determine the success or failure of Israel.

They've been beating Russian equipment for decades.

And Iran? Jesus! They couldn't even whip Iraq one single time in spite of their mass and population! Just more idiots.

Emotional idiots.

You know dooper Iran has cruise missiles as well or do you just plead to be ignorant the whole of your life and don't give me *Snip* about you being in the military I'm in the navy seals and if israel did something "unexpected" im pretty sure Russia would do something "unexpected" we all know the communists don't give *Snip* about America or the rest of the world and what if while israel was on the offensive with iran it's jets got shot down by the s-300/400 or are you one of "THOSE" people who say " a gun can beat a rock no matter how many rocks are thrown" truth is dooper the Iranians have a lot more technology than you think and as for iraq hmmm.... who supplied them with chemical weapons...what AMERICA but america is THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST nation in the world it wouldn't sponser a dictator like Saddam would it??? WOULD IT?!?!?! and lets get one thing straight you want to plead ignorance go ahead truth is people are dangerous and lots of people are deadly israel is surrounded by enemies and if all of them invaded at once there would be no israel you think muslims are just going to watch there brothers be slaughtered they will raise israel to the ground with another intifada. truth hurts dooper but it's true

Mod Edit: Please Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors.

[edit on 3/18/2009 by semperfortis]

reply to post by coolieno99

I specifically mentioned, "with one exception."

I spoke with an Israeli General, and casually informed him of the multiple violations of the basic principles of warfare that Israel violated in the scrap against Hizballah in Lebanon.

You'll note that they made none of these mistakes against Hamas. None.

And just one more little thing. Numbers mean nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea, Guagamela, Hydaspes, Agincourt, Rourke's Drift, the Chosin Reservoir, on and on join hundreds of examples where numbers meant exactly nothing. Just more to kill.

Consider Zenophone and the Ten Thousand.

US (and I'm most certain that would include British Special Ops personnel) have a history of enjoying 100:1 to 150:1 kill ratios.

Cold efficient business will slaughter emotional rage by the tens of thousands every single time.

Let me hand select 40,000 personnel, and I could run amok through Iran with their 500,000. I would never design to hold territory, I would never take a city, and I would keep moving. And take what was given, with no anticipated line of expectation.

And for one to suggest that's BS, it's not. It's just following the proven principles of warfare that if followed, have never lost a single battle, campaign, or war since 1479 BC.

And numbers mean squat.

Always have.

Always will.

reply to post by rationaluser


I miss your point. Yes, I was in the military, specifically Special Forces, and served with two Ranger companies. Volunteered for combat three times, and three times extended my tours.

Mr. SEAL. Russia isn't officially "communist." Unless you went to sleep twenty years ago and just woke up.

I would contend that Russia doesn't give two ***ts about Iran except for what they can get out of it. Russia is a bit closer to other Western cultures than to Iran, and as a greedy capitalist society now, Russia will sell almost anything to Iran for top dollar. Russia is beginning to see the potential problems with Iran's brand of Islam.

You seem to give these Russian S300 systems mythical powers. I'm sure it's good hardware, but it's not unbeatable. Nothing is unbeatable. And if you know anything about the Israelis, their ECM capabilities are the best in the world. The Israelis make it their business to know Russian equipment, as they've been facing Russian equipment since the fifties.

I'll tell you another secret: the Israelis have some of the best intelligence in Russia that exists. Probably Russian Jews (after all, they are brilliant) designing and building those fine S300 systems. I would bet that the Israelis know much more about the S300 systems than the Iranians do.

And as far as Israel's Muslim neighbors ganging up and slaughtering Israel, you really must do some reading. Just after the establishment of Israel, long before they even had a military, Lebanon, Syria, Tranjordan, Iraq, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia attacked with the stated purpose of wiping Israel off the face of the map, drenching the land with Israeli blood. Israel wound up with additional territory, as this coalition wasn't up to the task they had set before themselves.

In 1967, greatly outnumbered, and threatened again with extinction for months, Israel hit the new coalition of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt while those forces were still lining up, and almost tripled their land territory.

In 1973, Israel was again attacked by Egypt and Syria. Once again, no cigar.

Break out a secular history book and do a bit of reading. Just a little goes a long way. And the term is "raze (to flatten) Israel," not "raise (to uplift) Israel."

Anything to help.

bit of info:

PressTV is now saying:

A source familiar with Russian military ties says the delivery of the Russian S-300 air defense system to Iran is conditional.

Reports surfaced earlier in March, suggesting that Moscow might decide to postpone the delivery of the powerful S-300 surface-to-air missile system. The reports came as the US and Israel were intensely lobbying the Kremlin for anti-Iran cooperation.

Russia's Interfax news agency carried a report that cited a source familiar with the issue as saying that the Kremlin may freeze its deal to supply Iran with the sophisticated missile system.

"Such a possibility is not excluded. The question must be decided at a political level, especially as the contract was worked out on a purely commercial basis," the unnamed source said on March 10.

The source said while an $800 million contract for five S-300 systems had been signed in 2005, Moscow was not decisive on whether to deliver them.

A source in the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation cast further doubt on the future of the deal when RIA Novosti on Wednesday reported him as tying developments in the global arena to the possibility of the delivery.

The future implementation depends on the "international situation", he said.

source

IF the russians are truly getting "cold feet" then it could prelude an attack.

Despite what some say, this would not be an easy proposition, mostly because of logistical issues.

However, this could also be a bit of PR spin from the Russians - it's not like they're strangers to a bit of double speak

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by rationaluser

 

I miss your point. Yes, I was in the military, specifically Special Forces, and served with two Ranger companies. Volunteered for combat three times, and three times extended my tours.

Mr. SEAL. Russia isn't officially "communist." Unless you went to sleep twenty years ago and just woke up.

I would contend that Russia doesn't give two ***ts about Iran except for what they can get out of it. Russia is a bit closer to other Western cultures than to Iran, and as a greedy capitalist society now, Russia will sell almost anything to Iran for top dollar. Russia is beginning to see the potential problems with Iran's brand of Islam.

You seem to give these Russian S300 systems mythical powers. I'm sure it's good hardware, but it's not unbeatable. Nothing is unbeatable. And if you know anything about the Israelis, their ECM capabilities are the best in the world. The Israelis make it their business to know Russian equipment, as they've been facing Russian equipment since the fifties.

I'll tell you another secret: the Israelis have some of the best intelligence in Russia that exists. Probably Russian Jews (after all, they are brilliant) designing and building those fine S300 systems. I would bet that the Israelis know much more about the S300 systems than the Iranians do.

And as far as Israel's Muslim neighbors ganging up and slaughtering Israel, you really must do some reading. Just after the establishment of Israel, long before they even had a military, Lebanon, Syria, Tranjordan, Iraq, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia attacked with the stated purpose of wiping Israel off the face of the map, drenching the land with Israeli blood. Israel wound up with additional territory, as this coalition wasn't up to the task they had set before themselves.

In 1967, greatly outnumbered, and threatened again with extinction for months, Israel hit the new coalition of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt while those forces were still lining up, and almost tripled their land territory.

In 1973, Israel was again attacked by Egypt and Syria. Once again, no cigar.

Break out a secular history book and do a bit of reading. Just a little goes a long way. And the term is "raze (to flatten) Israel," not "raise (to uplift) Israel."

Anything to help.

Actually Dooper i think it is YOU that needs to do some research i used communists PLURAL as in china and russia (there not communist now medvedev is a good president) and the soviet union OFFICIALLY broke up 1st jan 1992 the fall of the berlin wall was in 1988 those 20 years you were talking about( i admit i thought 1988 was the year communism fell for about 10 years as well but then i became a communist note the signature "unbreakable union of freeborn republics" are the first 5 words of the soviet national anthem") and i don't give s300/s400's "mythical powers" truth is in 1991 SAM's were launched at f14's over iraq hell there is even a video of it on youtube and the pilot's were freaking out trying to avoid these radar guided SAM's i was actually quite surprised at how accurate these SAM's were and even though the chaff was deployed the shear number of missiles fired at them (at least 4 or 5) forced them to take ever more evasive action.

And correct me if i'm wrong BUT doesn't israel get help from the united states of america doesn't if recive WEAPONS and MONEY???

and by the way dooper i think it's important to realize that with all Israel's "intelligence" and there "spys" the merkava tanks that invaded Lebanon were shot to # (excuse my french) and let's not forget that they had "no need to switch on the ECM's" on board the ship that got severly damaged and could've been saved by the flip of a switch so untill you can come up with a reason why the Israeli Defence Force underestimates people i will be lurking here ^^

[edit on 18-3-2009 by rationaluser]