OK Catholics....Convince me, page 4

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reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 03:04 AM by EricD

Originally posted by VIKINGANT

I am guessing the holocaust was misreprisented and blown way out of proportion as well?

[edit on 13/3/2009 by VIKINGANT]

I'm not following you here.

Can you explain what you mean here?

Eric

reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 03:07 AM by EricD

Originally posted by VIKINGANT

OK...so on one hand we have Mary and the saints pray for ourselves...yet on the other you say we do indeed have a direct line to god afterall!?!?!?!
This is what I cant fathom. If we can talk to God directly then the saints are out of a job.

[edit on 13/3/2009 by VIKINGANT]

Catholics believe that there is no difference between asking a friend to pray for us and asking a Saint to pray for us.

The Bible is replete with examples of people praying for each other. That doesn't obviate the ability of the individual to pray for himself as well.

Eric

reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 04:41 AM by VIKINGANT

Originally posted by EricD
I'm not following you here.

Can you explain what you mean here?

Purely sarcasm...little more than that..If the crusades were over exaggerated maybe the holocaust was too...

Originally posted by EricD
The Bible is replete with examples of people praying for each other. That doesn't obviate the ability of the individual to pray for himself as well.

Is there anywhere in the bible where long dead people prayed on behalf of others?

reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 07:40 AM by Supercertari

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Is there anywhere in the bible where long dead people prayed on behalf of others?

The saints and angels in heaven offer the prayers of the saints on earth (recalling that "saint" was applied to Christ's faithful on earth as well as those triumphant in heaven in the early Church). Revelations has particular instances where the prayers of these saints are offered by the saints and angels in heaven to God in the form of incense. Now, one can supposse that those already triumphant, in God's presence, would have no need for intercessory prayer, only those members of the Church Expectant (purgatory) and the Church Militant (on earth) would have cause to seek intercession.

If you are interested there is a good, but not exhaustive, explanation of this to be found here.

reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 05:30 PM by EricD

Originally posted by VIKINGANT

Is there anywhere in the bible where long dead people prayed on behalf of others?

So, for the sake of clarity, you DO NOT have a problem with the intercession of others in the form of prayer, but you DO (potentially) have a problem with those who have died having the ability to pray for others.

Is that correct?

Eric

reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 05:46 PM by badmedia

Sorry, but I find the idea that another man praying for you has more effect or weight is a bit silly. Honestly, I find the whole idea of praying in itself to be rather silly, outside a personal recognition of a problem.

As if the father doesn't already know what is needed or the situation.

I have always been given what I needed, no questions or prayers involved. I might not always get what I want, but I find those unanswered wants to be the true blessings. What a world of hurt I would be in if I was given everything I asked for, rather than what I needed.

I understand why people pray and such, and I don't have anything against the practice itself. I'm sure it doesn't hurt, and is a sign of good things etc. But when you start to put more weight into 1 persons prayers over another persons prayers, then you are just really getting beyond that and into the ridiculous.

reply posted on 15-3-2009 @ 05:42 AM by VIKINGANT

reply to post by EricD

Thats pretty much the size of it.
This is very simplified, but I see the saints as dead people that have been given that title for the good works they did while alive, but essetially have no 'power' to actually do anything.

You are probably familiar with my question of "When we die do we go straight to heaven or do we wait?"
If we do in fact wait...what is the point of thier intercession?

reply posted on 15-3-2009 @ 06:35 AM by Supercertari

reply to post by VIKINGANT

In keeping with the theme of this thread the Catholic position on this question is summaraised, again, in the Catechism. Whilst making references to these passages (and other sources) I do suggest you refer also to the footnotes as they lead deeper into the deposit of faith and expand upon these summations. For this have a look at CCC 1021-1022

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:34 AM by VIKINGANT

reply to post by Supercertari

Time has been short for me of late, but I will get into the links you have posted. Thank you for them.

I just wanted to commend you. The number of times I have had people answer with..."Read the Catechism!"
You actually posted a link to the relevant section. I appreciate and respect that.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 11:02 AM by jeffcoatsawakening

I am not catholic but i would have to interject that maybe there are so many crimes(that we know of) because there are so many Catholics!!

reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 12:38 PM by Frank1985

reply to post by CaptainCaveMan

Christ has been crucified and Jesus started His Church with a few apostles. Many were martyred and because of their courage, the faith has spread in the whole world. The catholics converted the Roman empire, more and more people were becoming catholics because of their courage and because of the truth that the Church teaches.

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