Healthcare is 'a privilege...not a right': GOP lawmaker

reply to post by wolf241e

Affordable healthcare is a right of free people in a supposedly free country which is becoming more and more everyday like a communist police state. It really saddens me that our government is being overrun with these wannabe Stalin and Marxist types.

reply to post by dawnstar


Had a response written and suddenly my comp froze!, anyways, you made a good point, but at this point we need universal health care and medice. What the hell is the point of Social Security if the gov't is always dipping into it, and with inflation, thanks to the Fed's its not going to be long before social security isn't worth jack #$#@ anyways, so what needs to be the answer, Universal Health Care. If we have public education and unemployement benifits, and social security than we can afford universal health care, the gap is getting bigger with those that can afford expensive health insurance and those that can't. Remember every institution that you have ever gone too whether private or public is for profit.

my 2 cents

To anyone who views socialism as an evil, tell us, should every US child be given the right to an education? Did you not send your children to public school? Wasn't it our tax dollars that gave them the free education?

Originally posted by DJMessiah
To anyone who views socialism as an evil, tell us, should every US child be given the right to an education? Did you not send your children to public school? Wasn't it our tax dollars that gave them the free education?

The founding fathers explicitly viewed education as a right to all free and enlightened peoples. Education was not free until the 1800's though ..

I do believe that all education should be free, even college's, I do not however believe the Federal Government should supply the funds. It should be on a state by state - self funded. The Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights lists "Free" education as a right, or as an obligation of the Federal Government. It is thus retained by the States to fund their own schools, which they do for the most part through taxes and such. Bush's idea of "Standardizing the education" showed what happens to good ideas touched by the Government. Inhuman, bureaucratic, detached, and a leveling to the lowest possible playing field.

I believe the same would happen in Socialized Medicine.

It should be up to the States to decide.

He said that he stepped into one of the hospitals to get money from an ATM and noticed a very long line of people. So he returned to his cab and asked the cabbie what those people were in line for. The cabbie said that's how it works - when you go to the hospital you get in a queue. At the end of the queue they determine what kind of medical care you need and then you go to a waiting room or what-not. He said those people standing in a queue can be there with a broken arm or bleeding finger or worse. And oftentimes they will wait in that queue for hours!

You mean like in the US? Last time I was in the ER it was to take my mother in for we thought she was having a stroke. It was a seven hour wait. I have known people to wait six months for surgery with a specialist.
I have to wait two months to see my orthopedist.

Also, one of his callers responded to that account with his own account saying that his father, in London, was sick and so they called a doctor. They had to wait four days for a doctor to make a housecall and determine if he should be admitted to a hospital. His father was admitted and went to a giant ward that reminded him of the 1920's. There were so many people and too few staff that his father never saw anyone after being admitted. The caller finally said that he withdrew his father from the ward and flew him to the U.S. to receive real health care.

And Americans have to go to Canada and Mexico to get affordable prescriptions. And are now going to India to get better and cheaper surgery. One man's account and personal view of a hospital is hardly proof.


What we have here in America isn't perfect, but it's the best health care in the world.
Hardly. That is why it ranks 37th. And we spend more money on healthcare then any other nation.

That is why since Canada went to their system, their infant mortality rates have dropped. Their elderlly live longer and that life span is increasing steadily. Their numbers were the same as ours before the change.
There are less racial and income disparities.
And far less bankruptcies from medical bills.

reply to post by DJMessiah

Did you not send your children to public school?

No, we didn't. We did a combination of religious education and homeschooling. In case you haven't noticed, the public school system in the US is a complete joke. As to whether they got a good education or not, all but our disabled child went to college, and all received scholarships, and were on the dean's list.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


If the states had explicit control over education I believe that education in America would fare much better then it has. Having gone to a Catholic school as well as a Public school, I will never send my children to a public school. It is essentially a day care.

reply to post by Rockpuck

It is essentially a day care.

Yes, it is. That is why my children went to Catholic schools, and when we moved to an area without them, we home-schooled.

You have to remember that most countries in this world don't have anywhere near the health care we have here. If you want the great health care we have here, you should be forced to pay for it.

No one really mentions this but the reason health care is so high in this country is that we have so many people who do not pay when they go to hospitals. No one can legally be turned down in any emergency room in this country because they don't have health care coverage. Then we complain that health care is too expensive. So we elect a president who wants to make universal health care, where we will pay even more to run the same exact health care system we currently have already.

reply to post by intelinside451


we do pay for it...or most of us do, through taxes that pay for the poor to have that healthcare, through taxes that pay for the elderly to have healthcare, through taxes that pay for the research and the developement of new drugs, new technology...through taxes that help people get trained to be health professionals! some of us have seen our property taxes skyrocket to close to 25% of the value of their homes so they can pay for it!

any industry that has that much taxpayer money going into it should have an obligation to make their services affordable enough for the lowly taxpayer!! instead, our drugs are way more expensive than anywhere else, our care is priced out of this world!!!

oh, and by the way...by the time that little pain in a person's stomach becomes emergency room worthy, it might be too late, they might be on the way that happy hunting ground in the sky!! nice of yas to provide the people propping this system up with a doctor willing to declare them dead!

but, oh, ya, the big wigs in the system live some really nice lives (all subsidized by taxpayer money!!)...

nope. don't buy it!1 at the very least, the government should take the social security, the afcd, the food stamps the hud the medicaid, the medicare, and all the other handouts and place them under one program so they at least know what they are handing out and the value of it!! the way it is now it serves more to inflate prices than anything else....


[edit on 12-3-2009 by dawnstar]

"This is almost class warfare in order for him to be able to say everyone now has health care. Listen, healthcare is a privilege," said Wamp.

Apparently, your right to live is directly proportional to the amount of money you have (independent of how or why you have it). Forget about your character, support for others, humanist morality or basic human rights in general. That stuff doesn't matter as much...really, just the money. So, by extension, Bernie Madoff has the privilege to live whereas the beneficiaries of charities he stole from do not have that privilege.

Another way to look at it:

HAVES-----------------------------------------HAVE-NOTS
Privileged; Get treatment-------------------Not privileged; no treatment
Rich oil execs raking in record profit-------Families who spend all their money on gas; none left for medication, too
Agro-business execs-------------------------Somebody sickened by contaminated food
War Profiteers---------------------------------3rd world citizens who lost a limb due to illegal wars
Big Pharma execs-----------------------------Those who spend all money on meds with side-effects that they can't afford to treat

So, the haves, prey on the have-nots and then when the have-nots get sick on the haves products because of lies or misrepresentations, it really means that they weren't privileged enough to know how to take advantage of millions of people to become wealthy and vain and self-centered...now I totally understand!

Originally posted by Caminhando

. . . the haves, prey on the have-nots and then when the have-nots get sick on the haves products because of lies or misrepresentations, it really means that they weren't privileged enough to know how to take advantage of millions of people to become wealthy and vain and self-centered...now I totally understand!

Yep! Here we are back at Animalistic base camp. Survival of the fittest.

So much for the spiritual evolvement of human.

Have any of you heard of price shifting?
It's a pretty large contributer to the price of modern healthcare . The government made it mandatory for hospitals to accept anyone who happens to come into the emergency room regardless of their ability to pay. This causes people with things like headaches , and fevers , scrapes and other minor things to show up at the ER to get treatment . There are of course people with genuine emergencies that show up . A good portion of these people cannot payfor the treatment , and because the government made it mandatory accept everyone they of course have a program that is supposed to subsidize the cost of the hospitals have to bare (forgive me I cannot remember specifics at the moment ) , however this program does not pay for it completely and many times not at all . This leaves the hospitals with the burden of making up for the costs associated with the treatment.
They do this by charging higher prices to people who can pay especialy people with insurance policies( being that the patient does not have to worry about the cost ) balooning prices and creating the circle where healthcare is so "expensive" the average person "cannot afford" it.
So through government interference in the healthcare system , making it illegal to turn down people in the ER , we have higher prices and a "crises" which polititians and the uninformed want to blame on the "evil healthcare industry" . Where in reality the hopsitals are trying to stay afloat due to the large amount of people who cannot pay .
So while it apears to be one thing it is actualy one of those vicious self feeding cycles no one is really willing to take the time to look at.
Do some research on the issue yourself , you might be surprised at what you find.

I found a link to a video of a former economics professor explaining the situation of healthcare being expensive if anyone is interested in watching.
Why is healthcare so expensive? : Prof. Jack Chambless

As someone already cleverly pointed out:

Universal Healthcare is the mark of an advancing civilization.

Why is it so hard for so many to grasp? If someone cannot work because of a failing health, he should just curl up and die? Health is mostly beyond one's control and no one should be denied the right of a decent health.

Yes we are not all born equal but we deserve at least the chance to survive, which means health, food and shelter. We have evolved past the law of the jungle and we can look adter the less fortunate, though I know not everyone is perfect but the vast majority would love to enjoy a better life, work and contribute to society too.

I know the next argument: "why do I have to pay for someone else's health?"
Thats because we are living in a modern Society. With backward logic, Police wouldnt respond to the unemployed, or when you are out of a job, good luck with the fire ravaging your home or stop using roads and parks! Today's idea is unity makes strenght, strong and healthy americans is only a good thing, enough individualism.

We are not at the times of "our founding fathers" and I think some would love to even go back further and live in prehistoric values

And only the government can implement this, only the richest want to put their health in the hands of corporations.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by TheOracle]

reply to post by TheOracle


Because the greedy people love to cling to their money more than use it to help the needy.

Funny thing is that the people I have seen who oppose universal health care the most are the ones who consider themselves the most religious - something they should read from their good books on the subject of when it comes helping to the needy and "love thy neighbor."

reply to post by DJMessiah

the religious crowd sees it as stepping on their territory...if the government is being charitable, just where does it leave them? if they have the charity rights, they get to attach the strings to just who this money goes, and what it is being used for...
try going to a church for help getting your birth control pills! it's a power thing.

I agree with the Republican. Whenever a topic like this comes up, I ask myself "What would I have, if I were born out in the woods and lived life like a primitive man. Before modern day society."


Would I have healthcare? No. If I got wounded while fighting with a lion or something, I would have to patch myself up, lick my wounds, whatever. Healthcare is a modern invention, and not a right. If society were to one day cease to exist, like the world gets destroyed and I was the last one left... I would have no healthcare. So that, for me, answers the question. It's a privilege.

reply to post by Geneticist1945


so, are you willing to write to your elected officials and demand that they stop funneling money into the drug and medical research? are you willing to demand that they stop paying the poor and elderly's care? what about the training of doctor's and nurses...
how about suggesting to them that they forbid companies from demanding doctor's notes when one opts to stay home from work more than a day or two.
what if we cease and desist allowing schools to demand parents take kids to the doctor and get a note declaring them healthy enough to be in school?
how about if we stop trying to take children away from parents when they refuse to get medical attention for their kids?
heck....I bet if I got sick enough and refused healthcare on the grounds I couldn't afford it, I would be locked up in some mental institution and the healthcare would be forced on me!! and I would end up walking away with an even bigger bill!

remember.....there was no one or nothing protecting you and yours to prevent the guy in the cave up the hill from coming into your house and depositing a nice little bug to kill all or yas!


[edit on 13-3-2009 by dawnstar]

[edit on 13-3-2009 by dawnstar]

I think that universal healthcare is a good thing for americans (cause those private healthcare companies are ripping you off). But it should be managed every state for itself.
In a world with people who posses some empathy and love for others things like: "health is privilege", which by the way means "life with dignity is privilege", would never be heard.
Some things should be for the state to provide, it's not communism, it is common sense.