Don't let them tell you that "The Theory of Evolution" is a fact.

Originally posted by melatonin
Well show me what's wrong with what Gould states:

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

He's very clear about what he means. He doesn't conflate fact and theory. He makes the exact same distinction you do in the OP.

Again, what he clearly doesn't do is state that 'the theory of evolution is a fact'. That was your gripe.

You appear to have fallen back to whining about evolution having two different meanings in evolutionary science which can be, and are, clearly distinguished.

Oh. Noes. Call the special linguistic squad and arrest those men.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]

Your trolling. I NEVER state in my OP that Evolution is BOTH a fact AND a theory.

Scientists claim that NOT me.

Show me where I claimed that Evolution is BOTH a fact AND a theory? You can't.

Quit trolling. Only makes you look bad. Let's try to stay on track here.

Originally posted by B.A.C.

I don't have to show it. I've provided several examples and sources of Scientists saying that Evolution is a FACT AND a THEORY. It isn't. This is a Lie.

Can I prove the conspiracy? Nope, of course not.

Can I prove Evolution isn't a fact AND a theory? Yup. Read my OP.

ok lets go check what you originally said

I can PROVE that "The Theory of Evolution" is NOT a fact.

No more, no less.

and this everyone agreed with you on and ai it was a case of semantic and poor language usage ....

but wait whats this?

Is Evolution a fact? Yes

Is Gravity a fact? Yes

Is The Theory of Gravity a fact? Of course not it's a theory that explains the fact of gravity.

Is the Theory of Evolution a fact? Of course not it's a theory that explains the fact of Evolution.

wait so were saying that evolution is both thoery and fact, and that 'the theory of evolution' is not a fact

which is what you were saying in your op

but now your saying evolution annot be a theory and a fact .. contruary to your own op

OMG your providing disinformation on your own thread to hide your own conspiracy of one(you) from your self

this is the first time i have ever seen anyone take both sides on thier OWN thread .........

Do I think there is a conspiracy? Yup.

Why claim what you know is a Lie? A conspiracy? Maybe. Not sure.

This is a place to talk about conspiracies. Show me how many have been PROVEN on ATS.

they dont have to be proven on ATS but they really should try an present some evidence ..any at all that infact there is a conspiracy and how group are linked with it

and preferably not start trying to debunk your own conspiracy 1/2 way through it ..... yes there is a deffinate conspiracy ... but it appears to be by conflicting aspects of your multipul personalities

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Your trolling. I NEVER state in my OP that Evolution is BOTH a fact AND a theory.

Scientists claim that NOT me.

Show me where I claimed that Evolution is BOTH a fact AND a theory? You can't.

Quit trolling. Only makes you look bad. Let's try to stay on track here.

lol

I said that you made the same distinction. You do have an issue with words, obviously.

Just a suggestion...never ever open a dictionary. All those words with different uses in different contexts, it would blow your mind.

Originally posted by melatonin
Well show me what's wrong with what Gould states:

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

He's very clear about what he means. He doesn't conflate fact and theory. He makes the exact same distinction you do in the OP.

Again, what he clearly doesn't do is state that 'the theory of evolution is a fact'. That was your gripe.

You appear to have fallen back to whining about evolution having two different meanings in evolutionary science which can be, and are, clearly distinguished.

Oh. Noes. Call the special linguistic squad and arrest those men.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]

Gould doesn't say the same thing as me! I say Evolution is NOT a theory on my OP. Show me where I EVER say Evolution is a Theory on my OP? You can't.

Evolution is a fact. Not a theory and a fact. Not a theory. A fact. That is my claim on my OP.

Read what you quoted.

Quit trolling.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

They say God is everywhere. Well, maybe the way that God is able to be everywhere is by having streamlined "programs" doing some of the work for him (or her/or it - depending on what you think God may be).

So, DNA, as a "computer" program, running on the planet Earth, working through a complex system of changes vis-a-vis the environment, in order to allow for evolution as a self-correcting mechanism within his/her/its grand design (creation).

This is a theory by the way. I don't know if there is fact involved...but it sounds plausible.

In the 18th Century during the period of modernity they figured out that the universe was a precarious place, and we on Earth were not at the centre of it. Evolution happened and still is happening but we do not know exactly how the process occurred through the ages. A classic example being the death of the dinousars, those creatures that we know existed but do not get a mention in the Old Testament.
Is coal and oil not proof of a changing planet through the ages? To go down a mineshaft is to walk through an ancient forest land!
For HEAVEN'S sake let us not all start joining the flat Earth society at this late stage in history. I had to labour with some religious people who called at my door and remind them that our local star ( Sol ) is a fusion reactor and will one day burn us up.
The conspiracy lies with religious recidivists to reassert religious control and block knowledge that might otherwise liberate humanity.

Originally posted by Caminhando
They say God is everywhere. Well, maybe the way that God is able to be everywhere is by having streamlined "programs" doing some of the work for him (or her/or it - depending on what you think God may be).

So, DNA, as a "computer" program, running on the planet Earth, working through a complex system of changes vis-a-vis the environment, in order to allow for evolution as a self-correcting mechanism within his/her/its grand design (creation).

This is a theory by the way. I don't know if there is fact involved...but it sounds plausible.

Good point. I agree it is possible.

reply to post by B.A.C.


Nothing can be 100% proven - especially if you don't want to look at the evidence.
Is it a fact that matter exists? It is, but not to someone who doesn't want to look at the evidence.
I could argue that we're in a simulation and that none of this is real.
In which case I would accept nothing as fact.


Nothing can be proven 100% - but the evidence I have seen is enough for me to label evolution as a fact - as much as Caesar's existence (though I was likewise not there to witness it). I have every reason to believe and no reason not to.

And you will accept nothing as fact if you don't do your own research and look at the evidence we have.

Do you consider Caesar's existence to be a fact?
Most people would (even though they haven't seen for themselves) because there's enough evidence (as with evolution) to convince them.

You make perfect sense.
The theory of evolution... is just a theory.
We know that creatures evolve. This is a fact.

There is a huge distinction between these two statements. And this is what the OP is trying to say.

IMO the Theory of Evolution is like a giant jigsaw puzzle that we are slowly piecing together. Right now we have some of the edges. but we don't have the entire picture filled in.

And I also wholeheartedly agree. That anyone trying to push a theory onto you like it's a fact is lying.

That's why I'm skeptical about the theory of man made global warming.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Gould doesn't say the same thing as me! I say Evolution is NOT a theory on my OP. Show me where I EVER say Evolution is a Theory on my OP? You can't.

Evolution is a fact. Not a theory and a fact. Not a theory. A fact. That is my claim on my OP.

lol, you outline the same distinction. Evolution as facts (Gould does). Which is distinct from the theory of evolution, which explains the facts. You say that, and so does Gould. And noob outlines it for you above.

However, Gould is able to hold the idea of a word (evolution) having two different meanings in his mind, rather than like you who appears to have the ability for two minds with different meanings.

Read what you quoted.

Quit trolling.

You're funny. Both of you.

Originally posted by grey580
And I also wholeheartedly agree. That anyone trying to push a theory onto you like it's a fact is lying.

The problem is, it's only him saying that at the moment.

We're all waiting with bated breath for the 90% of scientists and 'evolutionists' who do so.

So far we have lots of people able to make the distinction between fact and theory.

Originally posted by grey580
You make perfect sense.
The theory of evolution a theory.
We know that creatures evolve. This is a fact.

There is a huge distinction between these two statements. And this is what the OP is trying to say.

IMO the Theory of Evolution is like a giant jigsaw puzzle that we are slowly piecing together. Right now we have some of the edges. but we don't have the entire picture filled in.

And I also wholeheartedly agree. That anyone trying to push a theory onto you like it's a fact is lying.

That's why I'm skeptical about the theory of man made global warming.

Thank You. That is my whole point. I agree with EVERYTHING you said. Although I wouldn't say it's "just" a theory.

Starred.

Originally posted by grey580
You make perfect sense.
The theory of evolution... is just a theory.
We know that creatures evolve. This is a fact.

There is a huge distinction between these two statements. And this is what the OP is trying to say.

no no no this is what the op originally said and we the evil conspiratory evolutiuonists agreed which deflatted the whole thing, that evolution is a fact and a theory, but that 'the theory of evolution' is not a fact


but is now saying that evolution cannot be both fact and theory, evolution is apparently a fact but evolutionary thoery cannot be a theory ......

and is refuting thier own first post .... seriously skim the last two pages its min boggaling

update:: it now appears that the original premise that evolution can be both a fact and a thoery is back

but the theory of evolution is not a fact ... which is what we have been saying all along

[edit on 6/3/09 by noobfun]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by grey580
And I also wholeheartedly agree. That anyone trying to push a theory onto you like it's a fact is lying.

The problem is, it's only him saying that at the moment.

We're all waiting with bated breath for the 90% of scientists and 'evolutionists' who do so.

So far we have lots of people able to make the distinction between fact and theory.

YOU are one of the people making the claim. YOU.

You say Evolution is both a fact and a theory. I don't. Read my OP. I say Evolution is a fact. I say The Theory of Evolution explains the verifiable observations of Evolution. That's what I say in my OP in a nutshell. Read it.

Evolution is NOT a Theory. It is a Fact. The Theory of Evolution explains Evolution. It cannot be both. That is how you can then say "The Theory of Evolution is a fact" Which is a lie.

YOU claim this. You're one of the 90% of Evolutionists.

Ok? It's that simple.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

reply to post by B.A.C.


My cousin is a micro biologist and we have some very good discussions about theories and the like.

What it all boils down to is that a theory is an opinion....... A very good, well researched and thought out opinion. But an opinion nonetheless.

You're correct "just" doesn't really do a theory justice.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
YOU are one of the people making the claim. YOU.

You say Evolution is both a fact and a theory.

And it is. but that wasn't the claim of the OP or the title of the thread.

Read it. It's in big bold letters above the posts. You even typed it.

It is not a Theory. It is a Fact. It cannot be both. That is how you can then say "The Theory of Evolution is a fact" Which is a lie.

YOU claim this. You're one of the 90% of Evolutionists.

Ok? It's that simple.

Nope, goalpost shifting not accepted. At no point have I said that the theory of evolution is fact. If you claim that I have, it would be a lie.

There is such a thing as a theory of evolution. It is a theory OF evolution.

Theory of Evolution

Evolution can haz theory.

Evolution can also haz facts.

They are not the same thing. But evolution haz both. It's special, like many words.

I'm bored of both of you now.

Bye. Bye.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


Read: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not gonna keep arguing with you. I'm right. I made a simple statement. You're the one having a hard time with it. The Theory of Evolution is NOT a fact. Very simple statement. Correct and verifiable and by Scientific Definition it is True. Simple statement. Very controversial apparently. Nevertheless, a simple statement.

I'm done arguing with you.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

Originally posted by noobfun
but is now saying that evolution cannot be both fact and theory, evolution is apparently a fact but evolutionary thoery cannot be a theory

......

and is refuting thier own first post .... seriously skim the last two pages its min boggaling

update:: it now appears that the original premise that evolution can be both a fact and a thoery is back

but the theory of evolution is not a fact ... which is what we have been saying all along

[edit on 6/3/09 by noobfun]

It's like reverse Einstein in action, lol.

Wonder when B.A.C. (1) and B.A.C. (2) will work the issue out...

"evolutionz iz factz, the feery of evolutionz is not fact, evolutionz is not feery, I am me and humanz....and what I am is me not u, derefore u iz not humanz "

[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by B.A.C.

 

I think you should have made it clear that although you state the theory is not a fact, you are not insinuating that evolution doesn't exist.

But you are right because a fact is effectively a specific occurrence and a theory is an explanation of a phenomena.

You stated in you op that evolution, the phenomena, is a fact. You for some reason feel that to believe the theory of evolution, however, you must relinquish your faith. Why? The theory puts no stakes in the non-existence of God so why should you feel that belief in the theory is mutually exclusive to faith in God?
Keeping in mind that faith is defined by belief without evidence, yet there is plenty of evidence for the theory, believing in it would not be the same as having faith in it.

I think it does go against the existence of God. Read Genesis. The two are not compatible in my belief and many, many other Creationists.

I also think that's why Evolutionists say "The Theory of Evolution is a Fact", to go against what they consider our silly belief in God instead of admitting that The Theory of Evolution is not a fact.

Say the truth. Not "The Theory of Evolution is a fact".

I don't say that the theory of evolution is a fact. I state simply that evolution is a fact (referring of course to the phenomena).

But it doesn't go against the existence of god, it goes against Genesis. The two are not the same thing. You are just unwilling to differentiate the two. The gallop polls have shown that the majority of "evolutionists" are christian, and that the majority of christians believe in evolution. Even the the catholic church has issued a public apology to CD, 200 years after his birth.

You're not advocating your belief in God by not believing in Evolution, you're advocating your belief in a story, a book.

Originally posted by Welfhard

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by B.A.C.

 

I think you should have made it clear that although you state the theory is not a fact, you are not insinuating that evolution doesn't exist.

But you are right because a fact is effectively a specific occurrence and a theory is an explanation of a phenomena.

You stated in you op that evolution, the phenomena, is a fact. You for some reason feel that to believe the theory of evolution, however, you must relinquish your faith. Why? The theory puts no stakes in the non-existence of God so why should you feel that belief in the theory is mutually exclusive to faith in God?
Keeping in mind that faith is defined by belief without evidence, yet there is plenty of evidence for the theory, believing in it would not be the same as having faith in it.

I think it does go against the existence of God. Read Genesis. The two are not compatible in my belief and many, many other Creationists.

I also think that's why Evolutionists say "The Theory of Evolution is a Fact", to go against what they consider our silly belief in God instead of admitting that The Theory of Evolution is not a fact.

Say the truth. Not "The Theory of Evolution is a fact".

I don't say that the theory of evolution is a fact. I state simply that evolution is a fact (referring of course to the phenomena).

But it doesn't go against the existence of god, it goes against Genesis. The two are not the same thing. You are just unwilling to differentiate the two. The gallop polls have shown that the majority of "evolutionists" are christian, and that the majority of christians believe in evolution. Even the the catholic church has issued a public apology to CD, 200 years after his birth.

You're not advocating your belief in God by not believing in Evolution, you're advocating your belief in a story, a book.

Evolution is fact. I agree with this. Read my OP.

The Theory of Evolution is NOT fact, it is a Theory that explains Evolution.

I'll say it again Evolution is Fact. The Theory of Evolution explains the verifiable observations that make up Evolution the Fact.

That's the whole point of this thread. Read this thread.

This simple true statement freaks people out. Why?

[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]