Why I believe the study of UFO and Alien life is the most important thing we all can do

reply to post by ZeroGhost


Hi ZG,

1st of all, are you sure that technological advancement reached in a very short time laps would be a good thing for humanity, specially if it would come from some advanced ET civilization, probably very different ?

We did not reach type 1 yet on the Kardeshev scale but I do believe that if
we did jump from a Type 0 to a type 1 or 2 civilization within a few years for example and not by ourself, we could all die.

Why, because our civilisation needs to grow (spiritualy) at the same rate as our technology, if technology goes way beyond what we can "spiritualy" handle, who knows what might happen ?

An exemple, there's all kinds of wackos on this planet, terrorists are part of them, let's say these people get their hands on some super destructive new kind of explosive or chemical weps'. Do you really think they would not use it & them ?

Don't get me wrong, I support initiatives like S3ETI, OSETI, SETV, SETA but I do not see only positive things in what you listed and I know mankind needs to grow up @ it's own "natural" rate. That's maybe even why if ETs are visiting us, they will not trade their technology and avoid contact with us. Why, maybe because they know that we could use it against them or ourselves.

Nice thread so. , projections are always interesting.

Cheers,
Europa



[edit on 9-3-2009 by Europa733]

Why is it the most important thing. You and I both know that we humans are like a slow moving infection. If we meet aliens there is only 2 things that can come out of it in the long run. We destroy them, they have to destroy us. You may not think it but it is still politics, and humans are very arrogant.

I say the most important thing we can do is work out our problems in our own backyard first before we are able to harness such powers. That is the solution to our problems. Think about how much more could get done if every country trusted each other. We don`t need alien help at all! All we need is to put a few genius minds together and we can do anything.

With that being said. No offense OP but people seem to put their hopes that alien beings will come save us from ourselves. We are alone. Aliens may exist but I doubt they even care about our species to even make a move.

[edit on 9-3-2009 by Equinox99]

i think the original thread is VERY optimistic and positive and an example of how things should be -- as such it's a bit like JS MIll's comments on socialsm -- it would be utopia if it actually worked! --

the reality is national rivalries, over-population, environmental degradation and the basic corruptability of man's nature have always stood in the way of such schemes. why in the hell do u think things like roswell have REALLY been covered up?? i personally think the world is ready for measured disclosure for the very fact that knowledge about our place in the universe should not be the domain of an exclusive few BUT free energy, limitless propulsion and some of the advances that must have been made in particle physics etc etc (im talking about lasers, masers and gamma ray-based lweapons that cd rip the solar system apart) could and would have catastrophic consequences if in the wrong hands. FORGET nuclear proliferation, we'd have armageddon overnite........

Originally posted by ZeroGhost

I would challenge you on that. After the Drake equation there is even more recent science that suggest even Drake fell short of the possibilities.

See this:

INFLATION-THEORY IMPLICATIONS FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL VISITATION
J. Deardorff, B. Haisch, B. Maccabee and H.E. Puthoff
Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol. 58, pp. 43-50, 2005.

PDF

ZG

I really didn't get any great insight reading it. I agree that IF there are other dimensions or some ancient race that seeded the universe then the odds would be better, but right now all we have is evolution. Doesn’t the fact that earth took 5 billion years to make us, and we could easily have never happened and we have not proved that we can beat future odds of survival scream at you that we are basically alone?

The assumption that intelligence will happen on a planet that can support life, and that life has the physical capabilities to go into space (think of very smart dolphins as an example of what could not go) 10 billion years and the vastness of space would put the maybe few races at extreme distances that they will never meet.

reply to post by Roufas


I really Grok what the Allies are saying. Only read one of the books, but Summers (SP?) seems to be a pretty strait forward guy.

I listen to everyone, and let my heart and knowledge balance the data. Sometimes a lot of great information can be in seemingly useless material. But you have to consider them all, or risk having too little a view to see bigger pictures.

Thanks for the thought Roufas.

Getting to everyone, but it's a deadline crunch today. I can only be on ATS on breaks.

Thanks in advance all for such a kind and intelligent conversation.



ZG

reply to post by Two Worlds

Originally posted by Two Worlds

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
We have plenty of evidence.

Where is it ? We would LOVE to see it.

Frankly we can do better than evidence. Here's proof UFOs exist. Note, when I say UFOs I imply Hynek's definition not Dr. William K. Hartman's.

Hartman defines a UFO as:

the stimulus for a report made by one or more individuals of something seen in the sky (or an object thought to be capable of flight but seen when landed on the earth) which the observer could not identify as having an ordinary natural origin, and which seemed to him sufficiently puzzling that he undertook to make a report of it to police, to government officials, to the press, or perhaps to a representative of a private organization devoted to the study of such objects.

Hynek defines a UFO as:

A UFO is a report the contents of which are puzzling not only to the observer but to others who have the technical training the observer may lack.

(source for both)

Originally posted by Europa733
reply to post by ZeroGhost

 

Hi ZG,

1st of all, are you sure that technological advancement reached in a very short time laps would be a good thing for humanity, specially if it would come from some advanced ET civilization, probably very different ?

We did not reach type 1 yet on the Kardeshev scale but I do believe that if
we did jump from a Type 0 to a type 1 or 2 civilization within a few years for example and not by ourself, we could all die.

Why, because our civilisation needs to grow (spiritualy) at the same rate as our technology, if technology goes way beyond what we can "spiritualy" handle, who knows what might happen ?

An exemple, there's all kinds of wackos on this planet, terrorists are part of them, let's say these people get their hands on some super destructive new kind of explosive or chemical weps'. Do you really think they would not use it & them ?

Don't get me wrong, I support initiatives like S3ETI, OSETI, SETV, SETA but I do not see only positive things in what you listed and I know mankind needs to grow up @ it's own "natural" rate. That's maybe even why if ETs are visiting us, they will not trade their technology and avoid contact with us. Why, maybe because they know that we could use it against them or ourselves.

Nice thread so.

, projections are always interesting.

Cheers,
Europa

[edit on 9-3-2009 by Europa733]

Thanks Europa for the great questions. I agree that too rapid advancement without development of our general awareness would be fraught with danger, but I would ask what is natural advancement? Also we should define "spiritual" as awareness and understanding. Yes, that would be needed in proportionate levels. Like a building getting bigger would need to strengthen supports and foundation, or collapse from its unsupported weight.

Natural, meaning no influence or inspiration from advanced species or distant historical pre-civilizations? I'm pretty sure if it happens, its natural. So the use of the word "natural" might be questionable, but otherwise I can agree.

Taking into account a significant advance in our awareness, a jump might be possible to type 1 or even 2. As it is now, we would surly extinct ourselves for a lack of practical context.

I think we need to allow for the "fuzzy" effect also. If shown these wonders by a type 1 civ, we might spend years studying new technology to understand it, being otherwise barred from it's use until we are deemed rated for its use. A span of transmutation might need time to safely administer such advances.

It would be many years and maybe a couple generations before we were allowed its use new technologies or knowledge without supervision. I really cannot imagine such management, as any civilization imposing their control on us would likely have issues we would be effected by. Would they be stern, aloof, authoritarian, ask for worship or other forms of appreciation. Nothing is free. Yet.

I have played out many scenarios in my head for such rapid advances.

Here is one.

Let's suppose that our planet is all of a sudden bombarded with a wave of radiation or EM from a collapsing star or the core black hole of the milky way. It was seen and we were warned by extraterrestrials hundreds of years ago, who have traveled far enough to see this coming, as they travel faster than light. Let's say the calendar date for the impact of this wavefront is 2012.

We see the calendar date in several "notified" cultures around the planet, but so long ago the translations are inexact or obscured by our lack of understanding of these cultures. Maya, Aztec, Egyptian, Chinese, Indonesian, Aboriginal and tribes of the Americas might all have something. But our skeptical doubt keeps us from looking closer.

Then at the time of impact we see this wave disturb our Sun and outer planets as it hits us at the same time. Astronomers would not see this, or it's particular effects until it was already here. Lets say this wave has within it's many components particular energy that carries with it very complex frequencies of EM that coincidentally or by design causes our Pineal gland to excrete '___' (Dimethyltryptamine) at a massive rate, and we are all, most of us thrust into extradimensional flux or extra spiritual realms. We see and are drawn into other realities and into higher states of awareness.

Some see angels, spirit helpers, teachers, masters and devoted souls with them from birth, other worlds or kindred, but, others wrapped in fear, sick of spirit from drug or vice, wanton killing, greed, avarice, otherwise tuned to lower vibration worlds and unfamilliar on how to process these changes go crazy and are locked into horror filled reality with negative entities they courted, or feared and either kill themselves or or are psychotic and demonized.

So those who have "spiritually transitioned" see this world destroying itself and naturally connect to others and see through a group awareness and collective consciousness that they can all transition to a safer reality/dimension/higher vibration, whatever, next to this one that is now falling apart for the destruction the wave as brought on 2012 that no one could have seen. Remember, only visiting species saw and could see what this was going to do because they could travel faster than light.

So the dammed stay in this horror filled world for another thousand, two thousand years to learn the lessons the hard way until an avatar like Christ comes to give them once again the words of wisdom and love and they can start to advance again.

The advanced part of our species who's awareness was sufficiently developed survive the horror and create a new world permanently recognizing the path of awareness and love and help the weaker ones who made it through but had issues. This stabilizes to a new species (homoluminous?) and the newborn species then is contacted by like spiritually aware advanced species and then given gifts of type 1 or 2 knowledge and technology, showing that they indeed would use them appropriately and become new members of the greater civilization.

OK, tangent and a half there, but because we do not know what is possible we can guess, right? There are pieces of truth in this scenario. Makes for a great sci fi movie?

This is just as possible as any other scenario with uncertainty as the script writer of reality. But in this case we see that a segment of the population leaves, the other stays in a biblical hell.

We can't know the future, but we can do our best to be ready for anything. Including the end of this incarnation. Evolving our awareness in every dimension, loving and caring for each other, loosing the greed and hate and gluttony our collective awareness is shackled with, might be the best thing to do.

In any case.

For any outcome.

I may have missed some of your points. Sorry for that.

ZG


[edit on 3/10/2009 by ZeroGhost]

Hi ZG,

You are welcome, you do not have to thank me.

What I read from you tells me that you sure are a very nice & intelligent person. God bless you or who&whatever created the Universe if that is the case. Maybe your opinion reflects that of a Type 1 entity...


The point of my last message is that we should not only question ourselves about a probable (because >0) futur encounter with an advanced ET civilization and the also probable positive effects but also about the less profitable or even lethal effects on our civilization & planet.

Many (not all) people involved in SETI or SETI like projects think that we should not only look for ETI but also make ourselves more "visible".

That's a great debate that we should all join, that is why I like your thread even If I did not agree with everything you wrote.

The idea is to put ourselves in this perspective even if we are speculating because the more we'll try to learn or think about them, the more we'll learn about us and our
destiny in the Universe.

Here is one of my favorite scientist talking about the Kardeshev scale and futur civilizations I want "you" to watch because it could help us understand quiet a few things about us and maybe even "them" and a possible interaction :


www.metacafe.com...

Cheers,
Europa aka Buckwild

Excuse my french but I am french




[edit on 11-3-2009 by Europa733]

THERE ARE WORLD EVENT'S DAILY SOME ARE REPORTED SOME ARE NOT.......THERE WILL BE A EVENT IN ARE LIFE TIME..AND THE GOV.WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HIDE FROM ..FACT'S

OP it’s not just a belief, it is and if I could give that thread 20 flags, I would.

Let me just add
Look,when and if we are heading for the disclosure direction, watch for the dark forces that will try to off-track the populace by getting it back down to the primitive level. Watch for those who will try to distract by provoking mayhem (any kind of war) and chaos. Just observe and you will realize that they don’t just come from the “top”. So many like to cry foul about those greedy elite rulers but they don’t give a crap about helping their fellow human being knowing the truth or perceiving the bigger picture.

We should always remember that Evil is at every level.