ECON: Working women almost certainly caused the credit crunch

Originally posted by undo
sinister,

i'm extremely opinionated, how did YOU know that? but i'm also willing to look at things rationally once i've had some time to think about it. i understand the plight of some men in the courts and on the job scene. not all men, but some men. i also understand the plight of some women in other situations, which i'm sure you're aware of by now. the point being that the extremes are what is at issue. an extreme anything nearly demands an extreme response - action/reaction. but this shouldn't be globally or gender-applied. that's not logical.

True. You have to go deeper into the rabbit hole though and measure statistics to figure out who is really getting the royal screw job here though, not just look at a case here and there objectively from either side. If you look at the big picture today, Men are the ones getting taken advantage of. Women are using the courts to get what they want on a magnanimous scale. I, personally, have dealt with the extreme abuse of womens ' new found powers. It seems that men have no advocate or outlet for anything anymore and there is an abundance of these for women. When is the last time you have seen a commercial on a charity run for colon cancer for men or our 'red ribbon' to help support prostate cancer for men, despite the fact that it rates right up there with breast cancer in deaths? Where is OUR help? Women seem to get all the attention and help from gov't, charities and the like whereas men get to simply die. I just lost my job recently, because of the recession and 16 men followed me from the company I worked with. Do you know how many women got canned? Not one! I have looked around and this seems to be an ongoing problem as well. I heard on the news the other day that women have more jobs BY FAR than men do now. Oh yeah, you read the book - The myth of male power.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

[edit on 4-3-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

Originally posted by dodadoom
Womens lib was created to ruin the home by getting the moms out of the home, thereby dumbing down the nation and creating a welfare state that depends on the gubmnet for everything!

Really? Why did women sometimes work longer a century before 'women' lib' could be called a official movement? Why did they need to take women out of the household to dumb it down when it was pretty dumb as it was? I mean what can women teach their children when they are not allowed access to anything outside of the home?

As for the 'welfare state' ( i suppose you mean a state where the government spends the money it took from us on us instead of lining their own pockets?) that is something we had to fight for tooth and nail and something we have to continue to defend if we intend to get our money back from the black hole that can be your average corporately owned government.

The tendency of corporate capitalist is to give you back less and less of the taxes NOT more so you really need to reconsider at least that viewpoint.

Actually thats just a side benefit, the real reason was so the gubmnet would have all that new tax money coming in! Once again in this country, greed trumps common sense!!!

A government does not care how much taxes it gets in as women are getting paid ( not as well as men but slowly getting there) and that requires a very large expansion in the money supply which means a cut of a larger pie. The argument is simply fallacious as is the one where 'people' are called 'greedy' for being willing to look after their own interest by working long hours.

Yep we fell for it, all for a couple dollars more a week!
Hope kids really ARE worth more than a couple extra dollars a week!

Well if YOU were stuck at home a additional eight hours per day ( your stuck with the baby 16 hours a day any ways) with a little human being that you can't reason into sleep or silence the job at Walmart, as secretary/PA would seem like the vacation it in fact it. To suggest that the daycare mothers are so completely useless ( professionally raising kids if you will; more experienced thus) that your child is seriously suffering for it is ignorant. If you can't find a daycare mother ( in South Africa you can look after 6 before you need to register, as i recall) you can trust to do the mostly rote tasks for eight hours of a the day then that speaks more for what type of society you live in ( 'bad mothers' , not that i believe it, all over) than it does about anything else. Just because almost all women raise kids doesn't make it easy, or rewarding 24 hours per day, and that's the type of sentiment i get from the majority of males here; especially if your raising men that will turn into the thankless bunch you seem to be!

Next we'll buy houses that are too big and expensive, lose them and help send the banks into the abyss. Nice.

The houses where not too big or expensive and the people who bought them have every intention to pay ( by working longer hours) but in the end it turns out they had no control over the gas prices, food inflation and the government which basically decided that Americans don't need jobs by sending them all to China.

This crisis was completely engineered but people such as yourself always seem to need to blame your neighbours ( or their wives) for everything that goes wrong with the world. The arrogance of thinking that your so much 'better' than the people who live next to you in the street is quite sickening especially when it's so easy to see that the only thing you seem to have more of is derision and contempt.

Well done on being part of the problem.

Stellar

it's like the rabbit guy said:

it's cause the guberment gives them special perks for it. it isn't the fault of some of the women who work there, cause they, just like you, want to keep their jobs. i was one of the first ladies hired into a pepsi factory in the town i was living in at the time. the company got perks via the equal opportunity act, for hiring me. when i went in there, it was almost all men. some of the men didn't want ladies in their factory. i was only 18 at the time and a bit naive. those who didn't want me there, harrassed me constantly.

one dropped a bra on my head. another posted the centerfold from hustler magazine on my work station while i was away at lunch. another dropped a 110-lb roll of steel on my foot. another taped 2 pallet tags to my breasts and then laughed and laughed, while i stood their in utter shock. another took the photos i had taken of my little nephew and posted in my locker, out and threw them away. another followed me around on my lunch break and sniffed everywhere i sat and made moaning sounds. it was so embarrassing and infuriating and shocking to my system. i never saw people act like that before. and i was in the public school system. so you can imagine it was pretty bad. these were grown men too. one was old enough to be my grandfather. none of them lost their jobs for dong that stuff to me because frankly, i only took 1 of the incidents to my supervisor and he just gave the guy a warning (the pallet tags incident).

problems are everywhere. i don't blame all men because some men in the factory were .....well, i don't really know how to categorize it. but you see, i was working there because dad was dying from prostate cancer and he needed my help. he couldn't work anymore. i don't think the guys who did that to me, in that place, knew that. and if they did, i'm not sure what they could've been thinking.....

anyway, that's not your fault or mr. red rabbit's fault or the guy down the street's fault. not all the guys in the factory were like that. only some.
.

Originally posted by undo
it's like the rabbit guy said:

it's cause the guberment gives them special perks for it. it isn't the fault of some of the women who work there, cause they, just like you, want to keep their jobs. i was one of the first ladies hired into a pepsi factory in the town i was living in at the time. the company got perks via the equal opportunity act, for hiring me. when i went in there, it was almost all men. some of the men didn't want ladies in their factory. i was only 18 at the time and a bit naive. those who didn't want me there, harrassed me constantly.

one dropped a bra on my head. another posted the centerfold from hustler magazine on my work station while i was away at lunch. another dropped a 110-lb roll of steel on my foot. another taped 2 pallet tags to my breasts and then laughed and laughed, while i stood their in utter shock. another took the photos i had taken of my little nephew and posted in my locker, out and threw them away. another followed me around on my lunch break and sniffed everywhere i sat and made moaning sounds. it was so embarrassing and infuriating and shocking to my system. i never saw people act like that before. and i was in the public school system. so you can imagine it was pretty bad. these were grown men too. one was old enough to be my grandfather. none of them lost their jobs for dong that stuff to me because frankly, i only took 1 of the incidents to my supervisor and he just gave the guy a warning (the pallet tags incident).

problems are everywhere. i don't blame all men because some men in the factory were .....well, i don't really know how to categorize it. but you see, i was working there because dad was dying from prostate cancer and he needed my help. he couldn't work anymore. i don't think the guys who did that to me, in that place, knew that. and if they did, i'm not sure what they could've been thinking.....

anyway, that's not your fault or mr. red rabbit's fault or the guy down the street's fault. not all the guys in the factory were like that. only some.
.

Although it's not my place to apologize for the infantile behavior of other men, in your case I will. You, clearly are not the type of woman I am referring to. If you look back at my earliest statements, you will see that I am directing my anger only to those who are likewise 'on the attack' yet from the opposite gender. I am upset at feminists and those who follow them.Not the working woman with struggles the same as mine. You, are dealing with the true nature of equality and it's never pretty, as I am. I am only weeding out the ones who are reaping the free ride.

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow


there are sure to be other women with a story similar to mine or worse, currently still working at your former place of employment. that's the problem. nothing is ever cut and dry. if they are singling out men to not stay, they may be receiving benefits for keeping only women, making it a more lucrative choice for them financially "(a side effect of materialism). so i'd say it's the government's fault for taking the ball and running it clear out of the stadium. that pendulum went WHOOSH, to the opposite side. logic dictates that if the job is doable by both genders and both genders have applied and meet the criteria of the employer, gender should be a non-issue...unless it's a matter of preference (like some doctor's prefer female nurses/attendants whereas others prefer male nurses/attendants). but for it to be the norm, in a big facility...that's usually not the case. however, "usually" is non-specific.

the economy is doing some weird things to people.

reply to post by orangetom1999

ahhh....I was wondering what happened to the car.....and the brakes...lol....

they don't like oneliners, so, well....I am making this two...

hope you have a nice day!!!

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow

Have YOU been taken to the cleaners by a woman and lost your job to one or had to deal with court rulings and losing your child to them simply because they now have the power through the courts to do it to you?

Clearly you have, which is why you are so angry and bitter. You said you teach your daughters to be equal to men, and then you say you hate opinionated women. Why? Is a woman not allowed to epxress her opinions just as a man does?

As I've said time and again, men and women are NOT equal. We are different. However both men and women are equally important in the home for whatever role they have decided to take on, whether it be the breadmaker or the breadwinner.

Men like you is what made the feminist movement as powerful and influential as it is. You have caused the very thing you hate, an independant, opinionated, powerful woman.

Because your hate and anger weakens you, a woman will always have power over you.

Once we start trying to find someone to blame for the current economic "crises" perhaps we can get on with the job of fixing our society.

Our worth should not be based on our wealth, THAT is the cause of our current misery, not women.

A major reason we need to keep women in the work place and empower them with positions of leadership is that we have a crumbling Tower of Babel built by Bonesmen and Croneyism.

They have exploited ecological resources for the enrichment of a few: every major eco system is in a dire state of disrepair and in danger of failing.

We have been Bush-Whacked.

Where is the Eternal Feminine when we need her?

Originally posted by brooklyn87
Since I had my little girl I have been staying at home raising her and my husband goes to work, we make plenty of money off of one income, but it doesn't always work that way. different strokes for different folks, I think that in today's society there are so many things people buy that they don't need which makes them not be able to live off of one income, I mean honestly does anyone need a 400 dollar cell phone? no!! does anyone need a 2,000 dollar couch? no!! I could go on and on but I wont, We have nice things but we do not pay a fortune to keep up with the jones's

umm....when my kids were small, I couldn't work, the child care costs would have exceeded my take home pay, and well, for a good part of the time, my husband was driving cross country in a truck, he couldn't watch them...
when I finally was able to work....It was a priviledge, my first job was like a vacation!

I am glad that you can manage to stay home, that your husband can make enough money....ever try to feed a family of five on $30 bucks a week...gee, if I had removed my husband from the picture, we would have gotten over a hundred a week in food stamps!!! Ever keep your kid home from school till the next paycheck c omes around so you can get him into the doctor so he can have the extra medicine at school because the school thought it was too dangerous for him to carry his medicine back and forth on the bus? I could go on, but well, think I made my point! Many mothers are working because they have to, it's not for $400 cellphones, new cars, or the latest and best gadgets to buy. All we are trying to do is keep up with the jones out there that are draining our taxdollars while not contributing much more than having and raising kids!!!

I mentioned before that a good part of the problem is all the middle men that have popped up within our economy. the house flipper that will find the house before you, snatch it up, throw a few thousand in it, then sell it to you and walk away with $10,000 profit! the insurance man, that will con you into pooling your money with everyone else's and then do whatever they can think of to avoid paying your medical bills, the file pushers who think they deserve $100,000 dollars for pushing that file across their desk and into some clerks hand for them to do something with!

and of course, the biggest middleman of them all.....our fine government! who will devise all these nice schemes, programs and giant agencies all designed to funnel your money away from you and to those who they feel are more deserving of it!!

got news of all of yas....I'm fourth generation working women! both my mom and my dad worked, and ya know what.....there are only about two times that I can remember that I wasn't in the care of one of them! Ya I'll admit, sitting in a bar while your mom worked wasn't the best evironment for a kid, but well, dad had a neat job at the water treatment plant, and I loved going to work with him...got to play with chemistry!!

and like I said, I couldn't earn enough to pay for childcare, the only time I worked was when it could be arranged so that dad watched the kids while I worked! And, people can gripe all they want about how mom is the better caregiver, but give the dad's some merit here!! They have a place in the child's life also. they don't necessarily have to play mom when they watch the kids.....they can give alot to their kids by just being dad.

if you want my opinion, part of the reason we are in the mess we are in is because we have clung to the idea that moms belong home caring for the kids....while dads worked the arses off!! Let's face it, there's probably a good 50% that something will happen and either mom or dad will find themselves having to play both roles, or the reversed roles...
Like it or not, if something were to happen to dad, mom would find herself in the position where she will have to earn some money! and, that usually means she needs to get a job! and dad might find himself having to help the kids with the schoolwork, cooking them dinner, ect. If we had accepted this fact to begin with, expected the moms to get out and work instead of sitting at home and giving them a check, and well, enforce the child support laws to begin with...if we had just said to people, your are equally responsible for all the care your kids needs, instead of separating the roles and delegating them to each gender...well...
we would have young girls popping baby after baby out now in hopes that they will be able to just raise them on the gov't handouts? would we have all those multi-billion dollar governemnt agencies paying for food, paying for rent, paying for the heat, paying for the medical expenses, paying, paying, paying?? THAT IS WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS GOING!! Our fine government has become the middle man of far too much...and much of it is b ecause we started out with the premise that....
Mom should be home with the kids, she don't need a job, she should have a man taking care of here...and well, it's all her fault if she doesn't!! But...we'll have to help her out...for the children's sake...

reply to post by Illusions Are Grander


Illusions Are Grander,

Why cant their be NO versions allowed? I don't support women or other minority groups who are currently not being victimized holding onto a victim mentality.

I think it demeans them as humans to do so, and I think it ends up victimizing others. (Those who have to be accused over historical wrongs they did not commit)

I agree here. No versions allowed. However the media and eventually politics followed this trend of "victimization" as powerful tools to keep people on the string for votes. This is quite obvious to me. It has become an institution a useful tool in manipulating peoples emotions for votes.
This has become standard M1A issue control propaganda over non thinking peoples. Which is why I so often refer to it.

What you learn is how little real thinking is going on but mostly responding to a paradigm which is not theirs.

The nature of politics is full of this kind of double standard by Victimization while the body politic does not practice what they preach to the rest of us. I call this Whoredom. And the body politic finances social engineering for votes.

There is so much of this going on it eventually has become wolfie to me in its entirety. Which is why I agree with you ...why is any of it going on??
Because it is expedient for some but not for others. Particulary at voting time.

MaMa,

How many moms do you know? Most moms don't want to put their kids in daycare. Most moms want to be stay at home moms, at least most of the moms I know.

I have noticed this too of late. I seem to notice that more women today want to stay home with their children and particularly in their formative years. They would like to have the option to do this or work.
However..this is not an option socially afforded to most men. Thus telling me there is no interest in this type of equality. It usually defaults through the other way around to the women. I don't see this type of thinking changing anytime soon.

Sinister Scarecrow,

Oh yeah, and women and credit cards...do I really need to say anything at all????

I have no problem with women and credit cards as long as they pay for them and not use social roles to foist them off on someone else to take the risk for their spending. If they are responsible about them..bon appetit. Same thing for men.
I know a number of males who cannot handle money as well. Today this is becoming more noticable among the males. They too are on the spending/credit card treadmill as is traditionally associated with women. I know many males who are in fact High Maintenance. You can watch so many of these males today on their cell phones. Little difference. It is like a drug to them. Cell phones/credit cards. Perhaps this is what equality is becoming ...the feminizing of the male. Runaway consumerism of the male. It is not just the women here.

I wont necessarily and automatically buy into that business about credit cards simply because I see so many males today conducting themselves in the same manner. High Maintenance.

Edrick,

Very interesting post. I too have read a number of Warren Farrell's books and agree with a lot of what he states. I have that book in particular along with

Why men earn more money
Why men are they way they are
Father and child reunion

However..the Myth of Male Power is very telling.

I did not know he had written "Does Feminism Discriminate Against Men."
However considered his other works, it is not difficult to see the direction in which his thinking and experience would be going.

I never was into the sports mentality of which so many men seem to rejoice and live vicariously. What Warren Farrell did was clarify the reason why so many men are hooked on this sports drug.
I do not care to worship at the altar of the sports gods nor spend my hard earned moneys on this religion. Nor on the products advertised and which seem to accompany this worship.

It was from Warren Farrells work that I began to realize that Peace was a far more valuable commodity in the marketplace from a woman than Piece. I also began to realize how few women actually knew anything about such a concept in lieu of consumption rate values and thinking. Entitlements. Particularly today.
What was more astonishing to me was how few men understood this by sports conditioning to tryout and perform for approval of the female and nowdays the childrern too and thus defaulting their ability to lead their families and ceding their leadership roles to rampant consumerism.
By not thinking and sports conditioning ..the males have made themselves disposable and expendable in this consumer oriented social structure.

Thanks for your post. Good to see someone else knows of Warren Farrells work.

Dawnstar,

You caught that about the car and the brakes. Good for you! Thanks.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom



[edit on 4-3-2009 by orangetom1999]