ECON: Working women almost certainly caused the credit crunch

Originally posted by dean007
i am a man and i think someone should stay at home and raise the children i would do it in a second i cant stand having to work for someone else all day long

i dont know why women dont want to raise there own children
daycares are weird
im single so i do all the chores around home no offense but it would never take me a full 8 hours to run my house more like 3 hours max and that includes meals

i would much rather be at home raising the children than working for 8 hours a day for nothing but money i never get much satisfaction from working

but i think nothing would be more rewarding than being an active part of your children's life

i dont think the original article was meant as an insult but its funny how allot of people take it so personally

How many moms do you know? Most moms don't want to put their kids in daycare. Most moms want to be stay at home moms, at least most of the moms I know.

I had to sort of laugh though. If your single and it only takes you 3 hours to run the house including meals, what do you suppose it would be with children? There are more messes and a thousand distractions. You start washing dishes and cleaning the kitchen only for it to be interrupted by the kiddo needing 10 different things. Even more if it is a baby! What normally took me 2 hours to do pre kids could quite easily take 4 hours with kids!

Now I take none of this personally (because I didn't read it most likely), but I love being a stay at home mom. I love that the daycare lady doesn't have influence over my child, that I do!! Dh and I do not have an old fashioned relationship at all, but the house is my domain. Things run MY way and I am here with my children all day long. I am able to volunteer weekly at my kids school, I am able to teach my toddler so much more than a daycare ever would. Doing this is beyond rewarding, it is something that I know will effect my children forever! As a mom of four boys who has worked outside the home before, being a stay at home is much more rewarding!!

I still believe that most moms want to stay at home with their child, well at least a little longer than those 6 weeks employers give. At 4-5 I'd bet a lot of moms would love to go back to work! LOL

Then again I heard that the entire of stay at home moms is fairly new. Although that was probably when there was more farming and everyone women included worked their ass off on their farms.

reply to post by whitewave


I use chauvinism the way it is defined in the dictionary;

www.merriam-webster.com...

Main Entry:
chau·vin·ism Listen to the pronunciation of chauvinism
Pronunciation:
\ˈshō-və-ˌni-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French chauvinisme, from Nicolas Chauvin, character noted for his excessive patriotism and devotion to Napoleon in Théodore and Hippolyte Cogniard's play La Cocarde tricolore (1831)
Date:
1851

1: excessive or blind patriotism — compare jingoism
2: undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged
3: an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex ; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude.

or as wikipedia defines it;

en.wikipedia.org...

Chauvinism (pronounced /ˈʃoʊvɨnɪzəm/) is extreme and unreasoning partisanship on behalf of a group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice and hatred towards a rival group. Jingoism is its nationalistic, militarized form. A popular contemporary use of the term in English is in the phrase male chauvinism.[1]

I can see someone enjoying a more "traditional" lifestyle, men and women alike. (though good argument could be made that this "tradition" has been more myth than reality) As long as they are not imposing or trying to impose that tradition on others who do not enjoy it. I think those who want the single income, one parent stay at home life should have the freedom to enjoy that. I just dont think that forcing all others to adopt that lifestyle out of a misguided sense that somehow one income would be greater if everyone was forced to conform to that standard is acceptable at all. Living on one income is an option for couple that wants to do it. It isnt always practical. But then, it never was.

Women working outside of the home is not something new. Women having decent jobs when they are working outside the home is what is new. Women have taken in washing, worked as servants, sewed, prostituted, begged, stolen, wet nursed, been nannies, etc. to supplement the family income for God knows how long.

When large numbers of women did spend most of their time in the home it was because washing clothes by hand, beating rugs, cooking everything from scratch in a wood fired stove, tending the garden, canning for the winter, scrubbing wood floors with brushes on their hands and knees, beating rugs, and nursing babies at the breast kept them at home. Because of the sheer time it took.

Now days it simply does not take a full day to do those tasks. And children did not get to spend all their days at mothers knee soaking up wisdom and love. They were often working right along side their parents or sent outside to roam around out of the way. There is no practical reason for one parent to stay home all day long after the children are old enough to go to school in modern times. Unless that just so happens to satisfy the married couple. If that makes them happy, then that is reason enough.

I agree 100% this world was a much better place before women started hogging it all. Wearing the gown of 'equality' they have usurped everything almost to mans extinction.Feminists use normal women to get everything for themselves and then recruit women by lying. Give them more time and let them keep rolling all over us, screwing us over in courts, getting alimony and child support in abundant monetary levels simply because they are women, taking our children and using them as power to "keep us in line" (basically to make YOU the man subservient to them just to see your child) and crying and getting everything they want and they won't stop with just taking all of our jobs. They will make us obsolete, all because we let them.They already say they don't need us anymore. Some guys are just pushovers to any woman who swoons them or winks at them and give them everything. It's no wonder they got everything so fast and put us men out of business. Keep giving them everything because they are pretty or whatever and sell the rest of us out too why don't ya? Come on guys stop being pansies and hold these women accountable for their actions. Don't GIVE them anything for free because you are selling out ALL of mankind, if they want to work make them do it as hard as you. If I offended anyone, this is directed to no one individual...but to you who know who you are, this IS for you. There are a few women who hold their own, like my wife, but most sit back and reap the wind as guys hand it all over. This working world was better without women in it. There I said it. Oh yeah, and women and credit cards...do I really need to say anything at all????

[edit on 4-3-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow


i sympathize. the court has done a total pendulum swing on the issue of visitation and custody rights. i disagree with that but see, this is what happens when people make really generalized statements and try to fit all people of a certain type into the box they've created. what's the opposite of that reaction? same dang thing, just reversed. the pendulum cares not. marked in bold letters down its length are the words EXTREME PREJUDICE and it will do nothing else but that. one extreme to the other. it just needs to stop. they should rip the thing out and hurl it in the abyss.

i sense this is what the article is attempting to do - marginalize and blame 50 percent of the planet's population (that's an extreme pendulum swing), for something that clearly is more complicated than whether a woman chooses to work or not.




[edit on 4-3-2009 by undo]

For all of those who wish to find, a way to leave their world behind.

The myths that have been perpetrated between the sexes seem to be at the root cause of the continuation of the polarization of the sexes into the groups "Feminist" and "Chauvinist"

I see these misconceptions touted by the Feminist societies, and I see how much of them are largely Lies, or at best, cherry picked information.

Before you presume what "Myths" I am talking about, you should check out this interview with the author of "The Myth of Male Power", Dr. Warren Farrell.

I think he makes his point very competently.

(Link to play list)

www.youtube.com...


-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


stop. that's just more generalization. it's not true that men are victims. it's not true that women are victims. it's true that some men are victims. it's true that some women are victims. can we just dispense with the generalizations, please? that's why women had to fight for the right to have an opinion about anything. and it's why men now have to fight for the right to see their own offspring once they divorce. MORE FLIPPIN' GENERALIZATIONS. what are you trying to do? make the cycle start all over again? !!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-3-2009 by undo]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Sorry. I keep forgetting that the newer dictionaries are leaving out the more archaic uses of some words. When words are limited, thinking also becomes limited.

Using the current definition of chauvinism you provided I have to agree that it doesn't sound appealing.

Women have always been in "the workforce", but now they're getting paid for their work. This seems to have upset quite a few men.

In 1929 when women stayed at home and worked from dawn to dusk for room and board only, we still had an economic depression. Couldn't blame it on illegal immigrants swarming the borders; couldn't blame it on those "feminazis stealing all the men's jobs". Who caught hell for that one? Or for that matter, who was the scapegoat for all the MANY recessions and economic downturns we've had since this country's inception?

My! What powerful beings women are that we can bring the world's economy to it's knees without even trying! Puhleeeze! Men blaming women who are being paid for their labors as the cause for our current financial woes are a perfect example of that victimization mentality OT mentioned earlier.

this guy told me he hated those awful __________ (fill in blank with whatever religion he happens to hate) because of something someone did from that religion, or a few someones.

that's a generalization. when generalizing ... go for broke! why tinker around with paradigms. just go straight for the gender war! if everyone in such and such a belief has to be held responsible for what a few did, then all men can be held responsible for what only a few men did and vice-a-versa. this is what we are now witnessing. women everywhere being held responsible for what a few women have done (and just as many men too! but we aren't going to hear about that part because it's the men's turn at the extreme pendulum game and they want to exact revenge on the many for what the few have done and experienced).

brings this to mind





[edit on 4-3-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Edrick

 

stop. that's just more generalization. it's not true that men are victims. it's not true that women are victims. it's true that some men are victims. it's true that some women are victims. can we just dispense with the generalizations, please? that's why women had to fight for the right to have an opinion about anything. and it's why men now have to fight for the right to see their own offspring once they divorce. MORE FLIPPIN' GENERALIZATIONS. what are you trying to do? make the cycle start all over again? !!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-3-2009 by undo]

Yeah, I knew someone would come along sooner or later that validated what I was saying. I just didn't think it would be so soon. You are the one I'm talking about who looks this danger in the face and chooses to support the women. Did you even listen to the videos the last post suggested. Have YOU been taken to the cleaners by a woman and lost your job to one or had to deal with court rulings and losing your child to them simply because they now have the power through the courts to do it to you? Didn't think so. You, will meet this woman one day because I can clearly see, you will be easy to take to the bank. You're the type I was talking about. It's not generalizations, you see when 2 sides are at war with 2 polar ideologies, someone has to win and someone has to lose. I personally refuse to lose and am going to do my best to help my fellow man regain what was once his and stolen from us by women. I will do this legally and probably the same way they did it. By bringing it to attention! Only I won't be in it for myself and create organizations like the feminists where instead of true equality, there will be a want for it ALL! Yes, I am starting it up again and bringing it! Why, because I am tired of women taking everything I have time and time again....simply because the courts let them and because spoonfed passive people (men) give everything to them at the shake of a hip whether sex is involved or not! In short, I am tired of man selling me and all other men out to beautiful women while we struggle to feed our families.Im tired of women blaming me for women not being successful while Hillary Clinton and Condi Rice and Anne Rand and all manner of women have tons more success than me and still cry about inequality.What did Hillary dowhen she didn't make President? That's right she complained about 'THE MAN' holding her and all womankind down (she collected a panel of feminists to help her out in the media).Then Obama gave her Secretary of State to shut her up.This is only 1 high profile case of something that happens every day in every social level and I am tired of the crying game. It does work, but we men CAN stop it if we stop being so weak. Pick up a book on women and learn their ways, you will then know their akiles heel, and know that they have been manipulating you with images of fake beauty since you were born. Yeah, the makeup, it's there to seduce you with visual imaging. basically an ace card against you.Where does the makeup go when married, hmm? yeah, they only wear it when going out, SO OTHER MEN CAN BE SEDUCED. Just know that their akiles heel is inside of them, emotions. Learn how to seduce them internally and you can manipulate them the same as tey do you. Level the playing field, if you will.Of course it will just be acting, but isn't that what tey do to us? Show up looking all hot and then when you get them home they start taking off prosthetic parts? it's not real and that is how they are seducing us out of everything, they know we are visual.In short, we have to work for it, they just have to put on a short dress, heels and makeup. So either work to get it all back or lose it all like most men in the world are right now. if you don't see a problem, your either a passive (problem) man or a teenager.

sinister,

i'm a woman. you have to stop playing the blame game. it's gonna get worse if you don't. do you have daughters you love? think carefully.

Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

Sorry. I keep forgetting that the newer dictionaries are leaving out the more archaic uses of some words. When words are limited, thinking also becomes limited.

Using the current definition of chauvinism you provided I have to agree that it doesn't sound appealing.

Women have always been in "the workforce", but now they're getting paid for their work. This seems to have upset quite a few men.

In 1929 when women stayed at home and worked from dawn to dusk for room and board only, we still had an economic depression. Couldn't blame it on illegal immigrants swarming the borders; couldn't blame it on those "feminazis stealing all the men's jobs". Who caught hell for that one? Or for that matter, who was the scapegoat for all the MANY recessions and economic downturns we've had since this country's inception?

My! What powerful beings women are that we can bring the world's economy to it's knees without even trying! Puhleeeze! Men blaming women who are being paid for their labors as the cause for our current financial woes are a perfect example of that victimization mentality OT mentioned earlier.

It doesn't take a powerful anything to irresponsibly bring the economy to it's knees. A monkey could do it. It's the LACK of doing anything right that destroys economies, not all powerfulness. Besides, none of this started going wrong until you guys did start in the labor force. Families now have 2 heads of households fighting for supremacy and the children get drafted into that war. You guys just couldn't leave well enough alone, you had to be greedy and have it all. despite what you say, there is overwhelming evidence of this usurpation of mens jobs and the court miscarriage of justices. You guys have manipulated men from the beginning and the power you say we men have always had is a downright lie. One of the biggest fallacies of the truth that ever existed. It only works for you guys because we didn't stop you. You women lie and the public buys. It's all because we men don't go out and cry about the injustices like you women are so willing to do. That's why you can get away with it. Maybe we should start crying and getting everything handed to us on a silver platter.

Originally posted by undo
sinister,

i'm a woman. you have to stop playing the blame game. it's gonna get worse if you don't. do you have daughters you love? think carefully.

I want it to get worse. This topic to me needs a revolution to set it straight. For a revolution to burn in the minds of men throughout history, however unfortunate, needs a fire lit underneath it.

reply to post by undo


Oh, I see, you don't want MEN to blame women for their troubles, but saying crap about the MAN holding down women and oppressing women is all fine and dandy, eh?

Don't like it when the tables are turned, do you?

Look, Feminism was NEVER about equality... Period.

Feminism wants women to have the RIGHT to vote, but not the RESPONSIBILITY to register for the draft to PROTECT that Very right to Vote.

Feminism wants Equality of pay, but says nothing about WHY there are pay inequalities:

For Example, have you ever noticed how the most dangerous, demeaning, and laborious jobs PAY the MOST?

And how these DANGEROUS jobs are primarily MALE DOMINATED?

Mens will to risk their lives is PRECISELY the reason for this "Glass Ceiling" that the feminists are espousing.

Dangerous jobs PAY MORE... Period.

Feminism's entire premise is "Cognitive Dissonance"

-Edrick

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow


but your endgame is irrational. it sounds as if you think the solution will only be possible if there are no women. what purpose do they serve for you if you see them as nothing but a blight on the planet?

reply to post by Edrick


i'm not a feminist. i'm a human being. this is why i can see both sides of the equation and rationalize where the problem is. it's extremes in response. it goes way over here, then it goes way over there, and as it's doing this, people get hurt (kids usually end up in the backlash and that's even worse than having them at daycare when they are little).

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow


I see you're new here to ATS. Welcome. I'll give you some time to grow up a little before engaging you in serious conversations. Enjoy your tantrum. Sounds like you've earned it.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by sinister_scarecrow

 

but your endgame is irrational. it sounds as if you think the solution will only be possible if there are no women. what purpose do they serve for you if you see them as nothing but a blight on the planet?

I'm not trying to say women can't be equal. I am saying I have a problem with them ousting us men. What is happening is not equality, men are getting left behind. Men are the ones being oppressed (in the blue collar world) now days. just who are you anyway, you seem to almost KNOW the people you talk to.Is that just a coincidence? Like you are cold reading or something? I am all for equality, but women are pissing on our backs and telling us it is raining. I ahve daughters, but I teach them to be EQUAL not better than, and certainly not to take the easy way, simply because it is handed to them. If anything, I teach them what SUN TZU taught which is "if anyone gives you a gift, consider them, they are up to something". So when the feminists gives the women everything, it is really just for themselves and they are using womankind to get it. It's a gift to women from feminists because there is power in numbers, the feminists couldn't do it alone so they lie and recruit and get everything they want and more by using women. I hate feminists, let's make that clear, opinionated women make my stomach curl and i would be honored to lead a revolution to unmask them for what they truly are ...devils in womens' skin. My daughters are taught that men and women are equal. How did you know I have daughters anyway? Lucky guess?

sinister,

i'm extremely opinionated, how did YOU know that? but i'm also willing to look at things rationally once i've had some time to think about it. i understand the plight of some men in the courts and on the job scene. not all men, but some men. i also understand the plight of some women in other situations, which i'm sure you're aware of by now. the point being that the extremes are what is at issue. an extreme anything nearly demands an extreme response - action/reaction. but this shouldn't be globally or gender-applied. that's not logical.

Societies by and large, tend to be Self Regulating, pertaining to matters of gender, economics, justice, etc.

The problem with our society NOW is that there is too much intrusive Government regulation.

While it may SEEM well meaning, it actually causes more problems than it fixes.

For an example of the Self regulating nature of a society (Without government regulation)

Q: Do you know what happens to a man in jail if he is a child molester?

A: He gets "Regulated"... *Cough*


-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


now there's a possible answer to the problem. not that women or men are at fault but that special interests (some people) are using the system to get what they want for all people. i don't think the opposite example works either, since we know mob mentality ("read-pure democracy) is probably one of the most dangerous group functions on the planet.