ECON: Working women almost certainly caused the credit crunch, page 23

reply to post by orangetom1999

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gee, my mom was a lutheran bartender, my dad was a anlglican taxi driving, and well, the only private school in our town was catholic.....
ya, I went to public schools back in the 60'S and 70's, sorry if you feel this is beneath you, but what can I say.....
by the was some of those catholic kids were acting, I don't think I missed much!!

and well, we weren't talking about american girls, here, we were talking about mexican and islamic immigrants....and mainly I was talking about the islamic.

and well, the in at least some of these countries these islamic girls are coming from, the behavior you are describing would more than likely lead to a death sentence!

by the way, as far as peace in the home goes....
the only thing that would bring more peace where the women is raised according to the hardline christian teachings that are taught in a few of the american churches would be that good ole islamic teaching that is going on in some of these countries, where women are married off early, and clerics are preaching that it's perfectly okay to starve them a few days if the make you unhappy!!!
where hubby is king and is not to be challenged.....






[edit on 17-5-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by Rockpuck

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I thought I was going to get all ticked off when I read the title, however after reading the post, I have said this for 25 years give or take. Really. I could have written this post...lol.

reply to post by dawnstar

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Dawnstar,

Yes..you were talking about foreign women. But this thread and the credit crunch mostly applies to women here in the more economically affluent social structures.

I am not in the habit of telling others how to run their countries.

Oh..by the way..in the book by Amary de Reincourt titled

"Sex and Power in History ...there is a little talked about facet of history where the intelligences of this world, in Russia after their 1917 revolution, passed a law stating that women don't have to sleep with their husbands if they don't want to.

Our intelligences here are just as stupid and willing to pass such a law if it will get them votes to remain in power.

What happened in Russia ...is that the men began leaving their families in droves. It caused such economic chaos it was repealed/removed.

But they are not that smart here..especially when the lure/allure of votes and power are at stake. Just watch closely what is going to happen with the illegal aliens..for votes and power.

But nonetheless I don't tell other countries how to arrange their affairs.

But I will tell a woman what I think and know when they try such nonsense to raise their value in the marketplace to me by such ham handed strategies as "oil shortage mentality."

I don't have alot of use or respect for a woman whose main tool in her tool bag is sex/sexuality. I require much more from a woman than sex/sexuality.


As to this Dawnstar...

my kids are now adult, two are still at home, and guess what....
I still blow a good portion of my weekend going up and down stair feeding washer and dryer......
I do this because all the guys in the house think that I am obligated to do it....and well....if I didn't I've probably have them staying home instead of going to their jobs because....they don't have clean clothes to wear!!!

Pardon my crudeness here..but this is Bravo Sierra..BS. It doesn't even make good nonsense.

I have told this to women as well. I have also told this to males/men.
A woman is not doing their kids any favors by not teaching them to take care of themselves. Nor is a man.

Children should learn early the steps necessary to get off the Breast.

Don't misunderstand me here Dawnstar..I love the Breast as much as any man..but I know I cannot stay there forever. Nor would a "good" woman want me there ...forever.

Once again ..pardon the crudity but were I a man with children like this at home..I would tell my children that they cannot come home and be sixteen again. They cannot use my home as a "pit stop."
Nor would they be working my woman to death. Instead as adults they should be lightening my woman's load to where she has more leisure time/options and not depend on her...she has raised her children..and so have I.

I hate the pit stop mentality of entitlement. My home is not a pit stop for ignorant children who don't want to grow up.

One of the problems I see with children coming home as adults is that once their basics are taken care of at little expense to themselves...their focus quickly turns to the pit stop mentality and all the goodies needed to get back out on the race track. Usually at the expense of someone else. This is no different than what many out here on the government dole are doing...entitlement mentality.

A good man should be able to see this and back his woman up ..even if he must alienate his children. In other words..he should have enough balls to stand up for his woman. Not burden her further.
Children need to grow up..not make themselves "Optional." That is BS Dawnstar. They are High maintenance. And so is a man who does not see this for his woman.

A woman who has raised children does not need to be raising them twice.

Oh..and this is worse when the children come back home and bring grandchildren with them. A man and woman need to see this as well..and understand it through the natural tendency of their children to want to be sixteen again and Pit Stop and all that it means or will imply.
Children need to grow up..even when they come home and bring grandchildren. It is not a license to be sixteen again and grow up twice at someone else's expense.

I am not arguing here that a woman or man do not love their children Dawnstar. I am saying that even in telling/making their children grow up and even in telling them "No" that they are in fact loving their children.
For these will always be their beloved children.
A proper parent looks for and works towards the day when they see/know the evidences that their children grow up and can stand on their own..not go from one breast to another. For a woman or man who can take care of themselves..is a person who can come to another for "love" only and not for the ability to continue "pit stopping" at someone else's expense.

Women often have a difficult time cutting the chord. I do not fault them for this but a good man helps her to do this..not raise children twice..and then grand children as well.

Having raised your children you do not need to be coming in second, third, or fourth, place in a home for which you have worked with first place labors. I find that to be a bunch of BS Dawnstar..and a good man should see this and make corrections to back up his woman.

Pardon me again Dawnstar...this is one reason I don't watch sports. For many men it just justifies more male stupid. To much testosterone and not enough thinking going on.

Ok...Dawnstar..I am off my soapbox now.

That stuff just torques my jaws.

Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999

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I know some of those kids that mom and dad have told to grow up and move out, ya know what, from what I've seen, they aren't growing up!! they are finding little party hotspots around town, and going from place to place and crashing for the night!!

as far as the breast bit....well, sorry, but it's been pretty much tradition since the beginning of time, ya know, marry them off at an early age, so they have a new breast/wallet to replace the original ones....
only now, the seem to be bypassing the marriage part....

and well, as far as the "entitlement" bit....
we have a houseful of guys living across the street from us, by the language they speak and the music they play, I would venture to guess that they are hispanic (legal or illegal). well, 6 or 7 men, along with a few women, all living in a house the size of ours......I see some of them heading for work every morning, by the tools that they carry out to the truck, I would guess that they are in some kind of construction job. those jobs used to pay decent wages, I am old enough to remember that...but well, employers felt "ENTITLED" to cheaper wages, went and had a talk with our representivies who well, were more than happy to turn a blind eye to all those people crossing the border illegally, so they could feel ENTITLED" to those campaign contributions and votes so they could stay in the office that they felt "ENTITLED" to hold forever!! It costs alot less individually to run a household when there are 6 or 7 wage earners than it is to run 6 or 7 households!! so, these guys can send a nice portion of thier income back home to help the family that they left behind!!
then you got all those one welfare, who the government says they need to get a job, any job, really, but they need to have a job. well, these people don't need to have to sit down do the math and make sure that they can run a household on what they are making since, well....
they are "ENTITLED" to a share of my sons' income to help them with that!!
these are the people my sons are competing with for jobs!!! they don't have to worry about making enough to live on, and will undercut everyone else in the job market, drive down the wages for all of us!
then you have the parents of all these kids, reaching retirement age, thinking that they are "ENTITLED" to a portion of the earnings my kids are making so they can enjoy their golden years!!!
then you have the big gamblers on wall street, who after losing their bets and crashing the economy, went running to our gov't, because they felt they were "ENTITLED" to those big bonuses and pay since they worked so hard and did such a great job crashing the economy!! and of course the polywogs in washington, well, they went along with it....feeling "ENTITLED" to more campaign donations and votes!!
don't preach to me about my kids feeling entitled, or needing to learn responsiblity....they are taking on more responsibiltiy than many of those kids who's parents have forced out of the nest, more than the girls those kids then proceeded to get pregnant, more than the polywogs in washington who are running the show, more than the big bankers who were just too big to fail!!
AND THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WILL BE PAYING FOR IT EVERYDAY OF THEIR WORKING LIVES.....if we actually manage to hold this mess together that long....
if not, well, we will have four to five guns protected what is ours....
how many will you have protect what is yours?

and the funny thing is.....
my husband, ya know the primary breadwinner of the family, the one who has worked his entire live since being kicked out of his house when he was sixteen.......well......he's spent the most time....out of work!!!
our world has flipped flopped, gotten out of sinc, and well, like it or not....
the extended family just might be making a comeback...
primarily due to neccessity!!

like I said, my kids are showing more responsibility than alot of the 30 year olds out there even, who are still jumping from breast to breast, usually living off of the lady's welfare benefits while working oh, when they want....




[edit on 19-5-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by orangetom1999

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A good woman brings a man Peace..not only Piece

Very well said, Tom.

I must admit however I have on occasion become insecure and emotional when my man has not shown the intrest in me physically that I felt I needed. I don't need it just for the physical reasons, but the emotional ones as well. I do start to feel irraitonal thoughts like he doesn't want me any more, or there is someone else...they are irrational and when I think logically about them I know they are, but..I am prone to being more emotional then a man.

I do not think this is abnormal, it is just the way women are made up. You see it as a type of blackmail, I see it as as part of our biological make up.

reply to post by Rockpuck

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Interesting article and one that should not be dismissed so easily, I can pretty much agree with to some point that increasing work force could cause increase in personal debt.

Then when the work is gone you are still stuck with all that debt so what you do . . . you default.

reply to post by Merigold

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Merigold,

I do not think this is abnormal, it is just the way women are made up. You see it as a type of blackmail, I see it as as part of our biological make up.

I dont see it as blackmail..because it does not work on me. I see it as a type of weakness trying to pass off as the moral ethical high ground when it is nothing of the kind. A type of insult..yet no one is supposed to put light on it...right??
Most of these women are accustomed to using this kind of entitlement psuedo moral ethical high ground to replace my reasoning with theirs concering sex, sexuality, and assign it a value in the marketplace or with me. One for which it does not hold. Peace verses Piece.

Peace requires alot more work and commitment from a woman than does Piece. It also requires alot of work and commitment from a man in like manner.

I do know several women for whom Piece has been their major stock in trade ..for most of their adult lives. They are going to be in big trouble when the biology runs out and it gets to midnight Cinderella. They have invested in nothing else. They have no other skills other than their maintenance costs. Alot of these women today become what is called Cougars...getting young inexperienced unknowlegable men to pick up the slack. It is becoming quite popular today. Is this part of the biological make up too??? No one sees what we do??? No one takes polls on it??
I know a number of these women who are also growing olde alone.

Women are and tend indeed to be more emotional. Many women see and think that their emotions are what is just, right, and correct. That they can justify anything and everything because they "feel." I dont happen to agree with this philosophy. Many effeminate men today are doing the same. It doesnt take long to see who or what was the dominant influence in the lives of many of them.

What many women also do not recognize in men... while attempting to default through on their emotional feelings...is that many men must discipline or stow their emotions in order to get tasks accomplished and come home in one piece. Not just for them but with their co workers as well. In otherwords...male socialzation does not lend itself to emotional drama verses female socialization beliefs.
Many women do not particularly care as long as the men bring home the bacon when needed and relieve them of the more difficult tasks of running a home. As long as it works for them. They dont really want to know how it is done as long as it is done.

So male socialization does not easily lend itself to such emotional drama.

Yet many women take this for granted..that they can be emotional. One has to have a tremendous security blanket put there at the RISK of many others to reinforce this type belief system.....as NORMAL!!!

This means women in the economically affluent west cannot be a downtrodden...abused...brutalized victimized group of peoples. Because women in the non economically affluent nations cannot afford to cater to such emotional levels and keep a family alive. They cannot take this for granted or work off of such emotional defaults..entitlement beliefs.

The differnce here is that men must learn to stow their emotions verses women who believe their emotions are entitled. This is not equality...or even equity.

A woman who understands this about my thinking ..verses only her's is a woman who can bring me Peace..verses only Piece.

Let me illustrate this in a different manner by way of my friend across the river.

After his wife died...he went back on the marketplace and began seeing different women.

He told me when I visited him..."one thing I have discovered about many of these women...is that they come over here looking at what they can get for themselves and their children. They are not looking at what they need to bring me..what is really missing from my life...and the need for them to understand and fill this for me. But they are looking at the goodies to which they can get access to for themselves and their children.

They think the route to this is food and sex. The keys to the kingdom if you like.

You see Meriigold..he had figured it out..from a different angle but figured it out nonetheless. He would never get Peace from these women..only Piece...and all the drama which goes on the other end of it by entitlement.

Hope this helps,


Dawnstar,

I am not particularly speaking of the guys living across the street..but your children.

Now you run your house according to how you deem correct...or work this out with your man. No problem by me ..that is your decision...or decisions.

But it does not do for you to imply "Victimization" and facillitate it..because the men "Expect" it to be so." I dont buy it and would not expect my woman to do so to grown men.

I do know that many women do not feel that they are doing womanly/female things unless they are picking up or cooking or such. My own mother tries to do this when I come over..fall back into olde roles. At her age it makes me feel bad to think I cause this when she should be taking it easy. I sometimes bring over some food...rather than have her go or attempt the olde rituals which she thinks are important. And they may be to her.
I just dont think she needs to be struggling with her bad hip.

I just dont think you need to be raising your kids twice or be wiping their noses and cleaning their backsides..when they can most certainly do this for themselves...even in your house. They can be more help..not more maintenance.

And I also dont think much of a man who would aid and abet such behavior as normal at the ages of your two boys at home. You need to be having options at your age and with your weekends ..not more responsibilities.

But that is just me.

You run your house as you deem necessary ..and reap the benefits.



Thanks,
Orangetom





[edit on 19-5-2010 by orangetom1999]

reply to post by orangetom1999

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I agree with everything you said!

I was only trying to explain that not all women use a piece to get what they want. To show you from a woman's point of view, that the physical side of a relationship is not a way to get something we want, or to control someone it's simply that, the act of love, and procreation, there isn't always an agenda.
I realize the in our society today there is a premium placed on a woman's ability/ to attract a man. Sadly not much value is placed on a woman keeping a man, piece vs. peace!

I post in a lot of threads about this subject as I know women like me are often looked up on as victims. I embrace my womanhood and the place nature has give me. I embrace the fact that my man is the provider and I am the nurturer. I understand that evolution has moulded a place for me, I am perfectly "made" to fulfil my role, and too often today we teach young girls that the role that has been shaped by hundreds of thousands of years of evolution is wrong.

But I'm not perfect, and I've had 30 odd years to soak up the propaganda which is spewed out in the media, education, and popular culture about what it means to be a woman.

I'm lucky, my partner feels the same way about being a man as I feel about being a woman, he embraces the roll that nature intended.


As I've stated earlier in this thread I do believe that society made an error when we left the path which is natural, I don't think it's a coincidence that our society really started to disconnect when women entered the workplace on mass.

I have no children, but should I one day have them, I will take my rightful place as the keeper of the hearth, and I will be damn proud of it. My man will take his rightful place as the protector of the hearth. In the meantime, I try and live my life in tandem with my partner and give him the peace he strives so hard to give me.

Edit to add: I do not think that it is a woman's place to cook, clean and look after a man, I choose to cook a meal for my man, but he can cook it as well as I can! ( well...maybe). I cook for him because I love him, and it is a way to show him with an act that I do. On the other hand he shows love to me by doing chores I CAN do but frankly don't want to.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by Merigold]

reply to post by Merigold

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Merigold,

You are correct. Not all women use Piece to get what they want or that to which they think themselves entitled. I agree. However..they are becoming more and more scarce.

And you are correct again..in your statement that

I realize the in our society today there is a premium placed on a woman's ability/ to attract a man. Sadly not much value is placed on a woman keeping a man, piece vs. peace!

I know a few women for whom as soon as the men in their lives got laid off...they got rid of them. Very telling.

I embrace my womanhood and the place nature has give me.

I don't have a problem with a woman embracing their womanhood. Nor a man embracing his manhood...but don't except today's ersatz values/thinking as the cats meow.

To many ersatz Cosmo Girls out here with only the fast food lane values. Males as well.
Goodness me..I get sick of males sitting around talking about the gods of sports...and cheerleaders.

Edit to add: I do not think that it is a woman's place to cook, clean and look after a man, I choose to cook a meal for my man, but he can cook it as well as I can! ( well...maybe). I cook for him because I love him, and it is a way to show him with an act that I do. On the other hand he shows love to me by doing chores I CAN do but frankly don't want to.

I don't think much of a man who cannot cook, clean, and look after himself. I call this type of man "High Maintenance and I have known a number of them. Never thought much of them.
I don't come to a woman for these things but it is very nice to have a woman who can do them. I do enjoy a good meal prepared by a woman who cares. Delightful and Relaxing!!

I am grateful to my mother and father who taught me several basics of how to take care of myself when I left the nest so to speak.

The problem I have with the woman's movement is that they expected more of men. That men should share in traditional woman's work ..to lighten their burdens. The women's movement is not interested in lightening the traditional burdens of men. In short...the men sensed that the women and woman's movement expected more of them..but did not deliver the men more. But somehow men were guilty of some horrible trespass or immorality if they did not cede to this new expectation.
I find much of this template I am describing to still be true today.

Oh..and on the topic of Peace verses Piece..I am going to provide this link to a post I made back on or about.. 15/5/2010 to someone called Ladyinwaiting.
It shows the textbook predictability of many women or females in the Piece line of thinking verses understanding Peace.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I thought you might find the response I got back to be interesting.

I responded to Ladyinwaiting here....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 20-5-2010 by orangetom1999]

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