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Originally posted by daz__
Originally posted by theresult
reply to post by InfaRedMan
you are a little sure of your-self don't you think..
i would like to dissagree with you on this and say the the opposite..
infact both Jupiter and Saturn both display sun like properties. The reason I say this is that it has been found by probes that both objects give off a proton wind which is exactly what the sun appears to do so this would suggest that both Saturn and Jupiter are Sun's in their own right.. They both give off more energy than they recieve from the sun..
I find it kind of amusing the way people throw around the standard scientific explanations claiming them to be fact and lets hear no more about it thank you..
I mean what do you have to say of the proven scientific fact that jupiter is a dwarf star.. A star that failed to ignite and that comes from the same standard science that you just clobbered the OP with...
As to jupiter just after igniting on the other side of the sun. who knows yet but i guess we will soon find the truth..
peace
daz__
Originally posted by theresult
Im just pointing out this here.. IF it was the case then dont you thing the gravity of "jupiter" would affect earths OWN rotation around the sun
Originally posted by daz__
I mean what do you have to say of the proven scientific fact that jupiter is a dwarf star.. A star that failed to ignite and that comes from the same standard science that you just clobbered the OP with...
As to jupiter just after igniting on the other side of the sun. who knows yet but i guess we will soon find the truth..
Originally posted by questioningall
Okay,
first everyone is posting these attack type posts.........
that is NOT THE POINT of THIS thread!!!
First, as I said......... I had NEVER EVEN HEARD of a theory like that before of "Jupiter Igniting".
OKay? so that is the FIRST base of this thread!!
Where does that "theory" of possiblity come from?
NOW - second................... WHY am I seeing in various websites.......... the thought that IT HAS OCCURED - while it has been on the other side of the sun right now?
I don't just want post of "What a stupid theory" - I WANT TO KNOW
WHERE that Theory comes from and WHY!???
What is the BASIS of the "theory"!?
[edit on 15-2-2009 by questioningall]
Originally posted by Thill
Well March is in 2 weeks so I guess we wont have to wait long to see if the theory was right or not ;]
While Jupiter is mostly hydrogen, it's the wrong kind. Remember isotopes; atoms with different number of neutrons? Hydrogen has them too. A hydrogen nucleus at its simplest is just a lone proton. Deuterium (D2) is hydrogen with a neutron and a proton, and tritium (T3) is a proton with two neutrons. Fusion bombs need the neutron-added isotopes. Regular old hydrogen won't do it. Simply taking a sample of hydrogen gas and compressing it won't make it fuse; you need a fuel enriched with D2 and T3. Finding these materials isn't all that easy, and a randomly selected pocket of Jupiter's gas is unlikely in the extreme to have them in sufficient quantities to explode
Originally posted by Now_Then
reply to post by theresult
OK... Why would Jupiter's mass change just because it became a sun? You can't suddenly increase mass with out adding more material! And conversely you cannot loose mass without loosing material.
Oh and I'm pretty sure that if all the forces in the solar system were to reach equilibrium everything would be stationary and in one big lump! We are not in a state of equilibrium, although everything is constantly trying to reach that end (in classical physics) we wont get there for billions of years... Read up a little on your thermodynamics.
[edit on 15/2/2009 by Now_Then]
Cassini is carrying 1.5 times the amount of plutonium dioxide (72 lbs) that Galileo was carrying (48 lbs) and Saturn's mass is 30% of Jupiter's mass. 48 is to 3.333 as 72 is to 1 translates into around 5 times the effective plutonium when the planet's masses are figured in.
The plutonium pellets aboard are protected against unexpected pressures (not Saturn's atmospheric pressures though). The upper crust of Saturn's atmosphere is gaseous hydrogen and helium for about 500 miles in, followed by a more liquid substance of the two, and much further in (about half the radius), a more metallic version (so it is guessed). Cassini would go from 1/2 bar to 5 bars in just a few seconds upon entry into Saturn and then explode and burn up at which point its RTG's, containing the Pu cylinders, will continue on. Eventually the RTG casings will deteriorate but the plutonium pellets will continue on, each having their own little heat shield of iridium and graphite, and start dramatically slowing down as the higher density atmosphere is encountered. It may take several days for the pellets to reach the point at which they implode. All that is required for fission from implosion to occur is for the final collapse of one of the graphite/iridium shells around one plutonium capsule to happen suddenly enough to prevent a fizzle, (a fizzle is a reaction that turns it into a dud). Since there are 216 separate cylinders, there are many chances to achieve a proper implosion and if one proper implosion occurs, it will act as a catalyst for others by showering them with neutrons as all of the cylinders will likely stay within 10's of miles of each other. Each cylinder by itself will eventually reach the pressure point within Saturn to go critical if they are not spoiled somehow by then. The fuel cylinders would travel deep into Saturn, much more than the rest of the craft because they are designed to withstand extremely intense heat and pressure. They were designed this way in order to keep them intact in case of an accident upon launch and subsequent earth-atmosphere re-entry (also Cassini did a couple of Earth swing-bys for acceleration).
Some members of the various agencies involved with Galileo and Cassini surely have considered the potential of a plutonium ignition and there is also evidence to suggest that a reaction is what is secretly hoped for, at least by a few. It was stated by William Cooper, (former United States Naval Intelligence briefing member in the early 70's) that an elite group known as the “JASON Group”, or certain members of, had been hired full time to work on turning Jupiter into a small star. The “JASON Group” is comprised of the greatest science minds in the world.14 The Richard L. Garwin reports mentioned earlier further prove that the JASON Group does indeed exist.
In summary, most of the cylinders will survive the initial impact with Saturn's upper atmosphere, because they are designed to do that, they have been successfully tested at an impact pressure of 19,600 PSI and higher than that for non-impact pressure.16 Each cylinder has a heat shield that can withstand temperatures in excess of 6400° F. The notion that Pu-238 cannot be fissile is very much in error, at least when talking about Saturn/Jupiter conditions. I will use Jacco van der Worp's analysis and also remind the reader of the declassified 1962 test mentioned earlier. Pu-238 has a normalized reactivity of 1.1 and a spontaneous fission rate of 3440 neutrons per gram per second. This results in critical mass under normal conditions at 200 grams (this is why the cylinders are kept at 151 grams or 1/3 lb to avoid critical in Cassini). The cylinders will keep falling and may wander apart or stay together when the craft burns up - it doesn't matter much because each cylinder will eventually reach critical on its own when the pressure builds enough in the fall into Saturn. Even if the cylinders wander apart, each one that is still intact will be ignited by a shower of neutrons from any cylinder that ignites. Around ¼ of the plutonium may fission because the surrounding Saturn pressure will maximize the results. With 72 lbs (32.7 kg) of plutonium this is equivalent to a 600 kiloton explosion. In comparison, the Nagasaki explosion used 7 kilograms, 1.2kg of which went into fission and caused a 22 kiloton explosion. This Saturn explosion would create temperatures of around 100,000,000° K because of the high density at the point of detonation. Even the sun's interior is not that hot (only 30,000,000° K). This is way above the threshold for fusion to start. Saturn is similar in content to the sun and the same ingredients can produce the same result: ignition of the entire body of dense hydrogen.
Originally posted by theresult
or are you going to argue AGAIN about this??
Originally posted by theresult
just for the record DO YOU THINK ITS HAPPEND OR WILL HAPPEN?