The Abundance Paradigm: By Amaterasu; Now Online!!!, page 5

reply to post by Amaterasu

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well i just got back from work and i need some sleep so this'll be super short...

The NWO you speak of aren't exactly #proven# to be trying to kill 80% of us...I know, i know Alex said so..... Look the world is complex, very complex and it doesn't have easy answers -the nwo if they exist probably know that a mass cull wouldn't be a very good idea, for a start who would do all the work? But let's just assume that they don't kill 80% of us, after all anything #MIGHT# wipe us out any second - a star going super emits a beam of gamma radiation powerful enough to end ALL life on earth -the first we would know about it would be when we fell to the floor, the only future we'll see is one in which we live, so lets assume we don't die for a second...

Time will pass and society will develop, slowly we'll get better tech and spread it around, the stronger tech will displace the weaker tech -like how VHS was pushed aside to make room for DVDR or TiVo. This slow march of progress will go on after we leave the planet and start to fill up the solar system, it will go on as we journey to other starts and maybe even into other dimensions and times - The slow battle and tide of development will march on through our entire history, no matter what anyone tries to do in the mean time, they might delay progress or speed it up but all in all everything will maintain a slow march onward. Not just science, philosophy also and morals. politics, social systems, etc, etc, etc - This development has been going on since before our little rock was even slime covered and it will continue most likely even after it's burnt up into dust.

This is the process of nature, we aren't sitting here with perfect working hands, color vision, stereo audio and complex brains because someone thought it was a good idea -it just happened, the lung fish didn't think i know i'll invent a lung so one day i can spawn humans, better ideas beat poor ideas -thus the battle gets more complex and the bar is raised.

By the time humans were sitting around debating the finer points of 'cogito ergo sum' the bar was pretty high. Through countless ups and downs we have ended up where we are today, now consider what it was like when you left home and had to manage in the real world - pretty mind blowing hu? Well humanity is in that sort of place now, we're at a real point of becoming more than just a child like species, we have the power to destroy the whole world, not just through letting off bombs but our factories, farms and even over breeding could put the final nail in out coffin.

The forces of nature which got us here aren't kind, over 99% of all species ever to evolve got exterminated - if the world hadn't been so hard then we probably wouldn't be here. If we go on as we are blindly doing whatever we feel like then just like a billion other times she will wipe us out just like that.

Yes, we do need a new world order, a fair and stable system which is pragmatic and sensible - Yes, the current capitalist system is insane and it gives evil people an advantage - Yes, if we all worked together everyone could all be fed (i don't think anyone could eat cow more than once a month or something, i'm vegitarian so i wouldn't care but i know that the land area needed to grow food to feed an animal for slaughter is huge)

However, if we were going to do this then it would mean cutting the waste out of our society - cutting back some of the greed and stupidity which rules us. Driving 2 hours to work and back each day can't carry on happening, Throwing away an oz of formed plastic every time you buy ANYTHING can't carry on happening. Sending massive ships all the way to NZ to get butter because it's cheaper can't keep happening.

We live in a society convinced it can have whatever it wants whenever it wants it, people are so greedy and vain that they act like the whole world revolves around them.

Until we face up to the fact that we can't have it all and an extra scoop we are driving headlong into doooom. So, i say reconsider the moral to your book - Yes it is a great vision for the distant future, however we need to know that the ONLY way we will ever get close to a system like that is by working hard and being sensible.

You may have noticed my username is NatureBoy - it's because i respect nature, not just the cute animals but the awesome truth and justice of nature, we must respect and live in harmony with the true nature of the world - not deny it or hide from it, like it or not only the strong survive.


-----ok, you might notice i didn't respond to many of your points, i just went off on a wild tangent -thats mainly because i think the debate is getting clouded in mucky issues and i just wanted to explain my point clearly.

I'm sure i remember explaining that Tesla actually DID send projects he was working on out of america to the governments of hostile nations - this makes him a traitor and a spy as far as the law is concerned. Not only this but he also had made plans to have his project shipped out of the country after his death, thus the american government stepped in to stop it happening. Just because they wanted to check he didn't have anything worthwhile in his notebooks / designs doesn't mean he actually had something worth while - if the police want to search a car for drugs does it mean the boot is full of drugs? if the un want to look for WMD does that mean the nation has WMDs? of course not, the government was making sure they didn't give the secret of the bomb or lazers or force fields to the enemy -in fact as i said they did later use his work transmitting power through the atmosphere to create a wireless telegraph system called Radio.

I'm going to skip your other points, sorry but i just can't even get started about ol' Gary, i'll be here all night....

And please... Since you seem to know... How much is "more than they should?" Who gets to decide whether someone is taking "more than they should?" Do we include the Bill Gateses and the Rothschilds in that?

hehe, no i was thinking more of the great power of nature, that mighty force which ruined Gobeki Tepe, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome and a million other empires who got too egotistical and thought they could have it all. Still, it doesn't really matter anymore, this debate is somewhat of a moot point -we're having it a little too late, i was reading some stratfor, blomberg and FT earlier and oh gosh this depression is going to bite hard from the look of it. So if it makes you feel better then pretend you can have it all, i doubt very much you'll be able to keep the dream alive as our society crumbles.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by Amaterasu

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The NWO you speak of aren't exactly #proven# to be trying to kill 80% of us...I know, i know Alex said so.....

Alex, Icke, and many others...as well as the blatent signs: fluoride in the water, "medicines" that damage and kill, "vaccines" that injure and kill, the stripping of food value through petro-fertilizer and GMO in the fields (not to mention pesticides and herbacides), the battle against organics, HAARP, "accidents" with live flu virii, the Codex Alimentaruis (which at one time was touted as killing 3 billion if implemented fully...), and so much more.

But believe as you wish. [shrug]

Look the world is complex, very complex and it doesn't have easy answers -the nwo if they exist probably know that a mass cull wouldn't be a very good idea, for a start who would do all the work?

Lessee... There are not billions of THEM, so they don't need all of us slaves. They have underground facilities tended by Grays, and keep humans and experiments captive, and robotics. What do they need the bulk of us for? Work can easily be done by a few of us, Grays, and robots. Not so tough to figure out.

But let's just assume that they don't kill 80% of us, ... so lets assume we don't die for a second...

Time will pass and society will develop, slowly we'll get better tech and spread it around, the stronger tech will displace the weaker tech -like how VHS was pushed aside to make room for DVDR or TiVo.

Why are you so sure of "slowly" developing tech? If the tech curve, plotted in the '90's through our 5,000 year history, is correct and can be projected successfully, the tech level should max to infinite in 2012.

That curve is exponential in its progression:

www.androidtech.com...

altweb.jhsph.edu...

We can expect instead of "slowly" developing tech, a faster and faster developent. Infinite tech? I guess that's what we will have in 2012, if the curve is correct (and even if it is merely close - we STILL can expect this).

This development has been going on since before our little rock was even slime covered and it will continue most likely even after it's burnt up into dust.

And accelerating exponentially...

Until we face up to the fact that we can't have it all and an extra scoop we are driving headlong into doooom.

This (facing the "facts" you mentioned) is only a requirement if we:

Don't progress further technologically (VERY unlikely)

Don't manage what we have better (again... It all is VERY badly managed)

Don't extract the energy from the plenum (Dark Energy)

So, i say reconsider the moral to your book - Yes it is a great vision for the distant future, however we need to know that the ONLY way we will ever get close to a system like that is by working hard and being sensible.

Not so distant as you would persist in espousing. There is MUCH hidden and suppressed tech. And yes. In order for this to work, we have to mostly be on the same page, and each do whatever part is within their grasp to do.

But I contend that it is possible NOW - IF we can spread the word. I have given you a plethora of data (which by and large you have ignored) showing that your "we can do it in billions of years" approach is wrong.

We can extract the Dark Energy, we are progressing technologically in an exponential fashion, and we have the Internet (a vital piece).

I'm sure i remember explaining that Tesla actually DID send projects he was working on out of america to the governments of hostile nations - this makes him a traitor and a spy as far as the law is concerned. Not only this but he also had made plans to have his project shipped out of the country after his death, thus the american government stepped in to stop it happening. Just because they wanted to check he didn't have anything worthwhile in his notebooks / designs doesn't mean he actually had something worth while - if the police want to search a car for drugs does it mean the boot is full of drugs?

When a vehicle has been cleared of issues...it is returned. So where is all of Tesla's work if there was nothing there to hide? It has "disappeared." Many efforts have been made to retrieve it, but to no avail.

I guess it was filed with the Ark of the Covenent (Raiders of the Lost Ark...), eh?

I'm going to skip your other points, sorry but i just can't even get started about ol' Gary, i'll be here all night....

Interesting. One of my pivotal points...and you won't go into it. What could possibly take "all night" to discuss??? I might persume you just don't have anything to refute his discoveries.

Still, it doesn't really matter anymore, this debate is somewhat of a moot point -we're having it a little too late, i was reading some stratfor, blomberg and FT earlier and oh gosh this depression is going to bite hard from the look of it. So if it makes you feel better then pretend you can have it all, i doubt very much you'll be able to keep the dream alive as our society crumbles.

I keep saying... Time is short and this needs to blossom in the infosphere to the tipping point, and that is why I bring it up often here on ATS.

And I pretend nothing.

[edit on 3/12/2009 by Amaterasu]

reply to post by Amaterasu

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And hey. If you had READ the work, I would be more than happy to deal with you.

'The work'?



And your excuse for your treatment of NatureBoy, who actually did read it, is..?

It is the height of arrogance, rudeness and rectal-orificeness to "review" based on a single paragraph.

I'm sure you think that's true; most amateurs feel that way. Yet, I fear, that is exactly how both the publishing industry and experienced readers evaluate books. Art is not for hippy-dippy Pollyanna types, my dear; it's a hard, brutal, competitive world. Why? Because it is the real one, not some Princess Britney fantasy.

But my point is made, I think. No need to belabour it further. Toodle-oo, pip-pip and good luck with changing the world.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Astyanax

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Thank you for your exit from this thread.

reply to post by Amaterasu

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ok thats it i can't take it anymore, sure the world is all about 'lizard hearted' people and david icke is right - Tesla managed to discover a way of making endless energy and the PTB just had all those wars over resources and energy which dominated the last century to keep us suppressed - 80% of us will be killed by the elite who will replace us with robots - the remaining people will have flying zen gardens.

Have your little excuse, write your (terrible) e-books and try and convince everyone to be as greedy as you - when the world is choking in methane and sulfa just remember with your last few breaths -if everyone had just been a bit more receptive to the very obvious and very clear problems society faces maybe we could have avoided this terrible end.

I don't think i even care anymore, goodbye humanity - so long violent ego and savage greed, so long blinkered narcissim and divergent strains of memetic tyranny. The universe won't miss mankinds vile hand, the earth won't miss our cancerous growth nor life our hungry destruction of everything we touch.

The globe may once again team with life or maybe it will die forever, it doesn't matter - sometime life will start again, sometime some being will awaken - someday out of the billion failed tries a species will understand, really understand their place in the world - they won't be the arbiter of their own destruction, they won't lie to themselves or look away from a tricky issue -their species will spread over the universe and see all the wonders of space...

.....then no doubt they too will die out, atrophy will chill the universe or the quantum bubble will burst - in the end nothing matters, we can only make the best of what we have.

So with this i leave you my star-eyed friend, be as greedy and egotistical as you like, pretend with all your heart that you can fly your zen garden in the grand canyon and teleport fountains made by people with nothing better to do than make you stuff and covert your (awful) ebooks. It doesn't matter, we are doomed whatever happens -we might as well fade away smiling.

As for me, I'm going to enjoy the chaos of a crumbling world - if anyone calls me immoral or pulls me up on my actions i'll just tell them that 'it's ok i know the truth and it's fine for me to do anything i want because this video i saw on youtube explained fairly convincingly that i don't need to worry about it, in fact I am trying to help everyone because i #just know# the world could be perfect as long as I do what it is that i just happen to like doing'

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by Amaterasu

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ok thats it i can't take it anymore, sure the world is all about 'lizard hearted' people and david icke is right - Tesla managed to discover a way of making endless energy and the PTB just had all those wars over resources and energy which dominated the last century to keep us suppressed - 80% of us will be killed by the elite who will replace us with robots - the remaining people will have flying zen gardens.

I find this quite interesting. Rather than show me where I am wrong, you give up (which suggests that you have no refutation, in turn suggesting I am right). I am very disappointed in you.

Have your little excuse, write your (terrible)

In your opinion (you're good at stating your opinion as fact). I have received a couple dozen U2U's extolling its quality for every one of the detractors. So I begin to suspect that the fault is in your vision and not what I offer - especially when I give you data and rather than refute it, you "give up." [shrug]

In fact, at the beginning of this thread you may have noted a glowing review (and subsequent accusation that *I* posted that). In fact, that poster U2Ued me a message that showed that they fully grasped what I was saying, and also took The Terra Papers seriously (another set of data you never addressed).

I wrote back saying I wished I could copy and paste the U2U to the thread, but that ATS frowns on such behavior. I mentioned that they could do the posting themselves. And that led to what was written in that first post after the OP.

e-books and try and convince everyone to be as greedy as you -

This is ad hom, love. If you want to ensure it is not, own it. As in "In my opinion, you are greedy." In fact, I am not, but I am sure you need this term to assassinate my character.

when the world is choking in methane and sulfa

Whatever would create THAT!?! Oil? We don't need no stinking oil.

just remember with your last few breaths -if everyone had just been a bit more receptive to the very obvious and very clear problems society faces maybe we could have avoided this terrible end.

Yeah! Um, all the more reason to pursue a different path. Soon. Time is running out.

I don't think i even care anymore, goodbye humanity

Mmmmm. I am guessing they have indoctrinated you into the concept that we humans aren't worth caring about. They point to all the bad we do, claiming it is in our "nature." They WANT us to believe this. They don't point out that our poor choices are made out of the desperation created from a money economy.

And you seem hell bent on retaining the money system (in my opinion), as if we could not rid ourselves of it. Why is that?

So with this i leave you my star-eyed friend, be as greedy and egotistical as you like, pretend with all your heart that you can fly your zen garden in the grand canyon and teleport fountains made by people with nothing better to do than make you stuff and covert your (awful) ebooks. It doesn't matter, we are doomed whatever happens -we might as well fade away smiling.

Hahahahaha! The fountains will not be made by people "with nothing better to do" - in the derisive way you are using the phrase. They will be created by those who LOVE to do the creating. And in fact, we are a HIGHLY creative species, but that our time is filled with slaving for wages and falling to sleep too exhausted to handle anything creative.

And there is no pretense in believing such houses as I describe could be created. Since you refuse to address Gary McKinnon (and many others) who says that we have antigrav, preferring to ignore the data, you will try to paint my vision as pretense. [shrug]

Whatever, dude.

As for me, I'm going to enjoy the chaos of a crumbling world

Remember those words (should I not be successful in my efforts to bring freedom to us all) when you are nutritionally starved and have rickets or worse. I think you are hoping for this collapse. No wonder you fight my vision so.

- if anyone calls me immoral or pulls me up on my actions i'll just tell them that 'it's ok i know the truth and it's fine for me to do anything i want because this video i saw on youtube explained fairly convincingly that i don't need to worry about it, in fact I am trying to help everyone because i #just know# the world could be perfect as long as I do what it is that i just happen to like doing'

Silly person (in my opinion). You are trying to put the cart before the horse. There is a great deal of work and effort to be done before you can do (create) what you wish.

You can't just go out and create as you see fit until EVERYBODY can do so. Otherwise, it is greed, ego and selfcenteredness.

[edit on 3/15/2009 by Amaterasu]

reply to post by Rivyolie

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That tech curve was projected to go infinite in 2012.

Indeed they did pick a famous date to make the 'tech curve...go infinite' - You don't think that maybe they did that because they were just making up nonsense off the top of their head by any chance?

By 'Tech Curve' they mean the rate of technological progress - The theory goes along the lines that when you invent one thing it helps you invent others faster, so while it might take a thousand years to create mathmatics it would only take 500 years to invent the computer because maths helped, the computer would then mean we could invent 'future tech1' in 250years, etc, etc....

If you're paying attention then you would notice that when you keep halving the time taken to discover something it will never reach zero (1 = 0.5 = 0.25, etc) so for a start maths wise it's never going to be truly infinite -- that's not the real problem i have with this statement though...

Being as how it was made by someone who claims to have read a lot of SF i'm sure she's more than aware of some of the awesome things we don't have yet - Force fields, teleportation, cyborgs, AI, time travel, anti-grav. etc. etc -- If the tech curve actually WAS going to 'go infinite' in a few years time then that would mean while obama is still in his first term ALL those things and more would be invented! haha how likely is that?

It does so happen that at the moment we're developing technological innovations much faster than before, no doubt the rate of progress is speeding up - certainly not the first time it's happened, society and science are much more complex than simple models of progress plotted against time though -maybe we just unlocked a door to a level of scientific understanding, we're able to then use that to quickly convert and upgrade all our older tech and make the stuff we've been dreaming about for ages so it seems like we're inventing a thing a second... Most likely this will continue until we are starting to fill out our solar system a bit, then like so many times before it'll relax while we refine and perfect what we have -then at some point a new break through (maybe hyperspace travel) will lead us into a new industrial revolution.

So while the trend of the rate of change may be going up, don't expect us to have finished doing science by 2012 lol, we still got plenty to keep the great grandkids busy (for all of their 500yr life span) - and that's before you even think about the massively complex things we can't even dream of yet.

edit to say oh and the mayans predicted no such thing!

[edit on 6-5-2009 by NatureBoy]

reply to post by NatureBoy

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Ofcourse you are frustrated. I would be too if I were suppressed the last few centuries because of a few greedy, power hungry individuals.

Let´s be all we can be and reject the scarcity model shall we?

T4H

reply to post by Truth4hire

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? reject the scarcity model? ok.

its rejected.

where do i pick up my flying magic super zen garden?

We didn't get where we are in the world on blind hope and ignorance, it took real actual science combined with blood, sweat and tears. Life is hard, very hard but humanity has been working to progress steadily, some of us are helping that progression by working on actual real world problems on a practical level - others meanwhile are stretched out in the sun dreaming about a thousand years from now after everyone else has done the hard bit.

we ALL want to live in the world of plenty, its a common meme in literature spanning the world and history, every society has a utopia of some sort they're heading for. The real question is HOW DO WE GET THERE. That's what we're all working on now, thats why we build computers to help us and microscopes, rocket ships, etc, etc because we want to progress towards this magic free world...

For a bit oil seemed to be the answer, it changed the world but then we realized just how much it was changing the world! So far we don't have a viable solution to our limited resources and the complexity of survival (we need certain things to survive, to get those things we need a large slice of the population devoted to getting and working them, etc the higher the standard of life the more things we need, etc)

Robotics will be important, space mining also, molecular layering machines and high yield power generation - this technology developed in pretty much this order could have the world of 2100 or 2200 looking similar to a utopia but we have to work through each step before we get there.

reply to post by NatureBoy

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Thanks for rejecting the scarcity model. Now to get from a to b please hold, a lot of people (including myself) are working on it.

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