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The Abundance Paradigm: By Amaterasu; Now Online!!!

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posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry for not filling my post with quotes, i don't think you can say that i ignored your points however i have tried to present a structured and clear argument which takes in and on as many of your points as possible. Where as you just ignored quiet a few of mine, namely the 'lizard hearted' being fiendish anti-utopia criminals who i presume deserve death, or #reprogramming# -you'll brainwash them into thinking that your system is the best. This is what went wrong with communism, at first they assumed they could all have everything if they worked together but it never happened, even working fairly together they still couldn't manage to live in opulence like they wanted. Stalin was sure that the 'lizard hearted' were to blame and before you know it millions of people were dead, starving and enslaved.

I #did# read the bit about communism as it goes, to be honest i find it a bit vain that you think i could only grasp your great work in all it's glory if i pored over each and every word -most of it was fairly predictable and the interesting bits i'd read about from all those science fiction authors you listed earlier -but still whatever, ignore the point i was making..

We don't have the resources or the power to give everyone everything they want. oil for example makes plastic, rubber, food additives, road surfacing and a dozern other things beside gasoline. We could use ethonol but then if everyone used as much fuel as the average american we would need a few more planets worth of food growing. This is not a moot point, the 6billion people at the moment can't all have a car to drive every day, they could barely have enough food -certainly not the same amount of food as the average american.


To create robots, flying zen gardens and all the other things you want we will need a large investment in infrastructure, this must be taken from the maximum human potential doing power minus the power needed to survive -the current state of the world isn't great, we're hoping for a technology which will lower the cost of survival because soon we won't be able to afford to pay it. This will most likely be robots, however we will need to be able to implement the solution before we get the benefits -this, as we see during the early industrial revolution (Dickins Hard Times) this can be very painful indeed.

So, we reach an point at which we either manage to create robots and start a robot based system OR one in which we fail while trying and collapse society. While in the very long term abundance is inevitable as the other poster says, however only if we survive long enough to reach it -robots is only an early step, electronics and mechanics came before and space based industry, atomic level mass manufacture will come shortly after but at any time we could be reset back to square one, thats why we need to move one step at a time and make each move count.

So as i said, you book is too distant in the future for it's implication to affect us, why don't you try making some positive difference such as learning about robots and being the person to perfect a AI for a garden maintenance robot, learning about how to get off grid and generate your own power, show people that having a well paying job and working all hours of the day isn't vital to having a good life and maybe they would enjoy life more if they worked less and spent some time sorting out their own projects which require less money but more time.

You book basically suggests Greed as the answer, you'll say i didn't read it i just know you will or tell me that its to do with scarcity and yes it is - at the moment the most likely think to knock us off the perch and ruin society,the economy and with it our chances of installing robots, decreasing the cost of living and spreading fairness and abundance is GREED. Look at the depression, it's caused by greed -stupid greed.

We can not have everything we want, not yet, maybe soon if we pull together and work to make an effective society -however maybe food shortages and riots will tare the world to bits throwing us back the the iron age and it'll be another five thousand years before we get this close to the robot revolution again. So please, stop telling people to be greedy and to want everything, flying zen gardens and teleporting water fountains -if you want to spread the route to this world it's pragmatism not greed.




posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry for not filling my post with quotes, i don't think you can say that i ignored your points however i have tried to present a structured and clear argument which takes in and on as many of your points as possible.


Here is my issue. In a debate, questions are asked of one another, often specific questions that need specific answers. I ask questions of you, and except for the question of special sand, you have addressed not one directly.

Rather, you yank words I used out of my text, mocking them as you bring them up, and never addressing the context, the logic in which they fit. This is bluster, at best.

Meanwhile, I do believe I covered every question you brought up.

Attack my logic and stop playing word games and I will continue in debate. In fact, go back over my posts on page 4 only and directly answer the questions I asked of you, and I will continue.

Because right now, it's a draw, game over, and I would move on.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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So, ok. I've finally decided to give this post a go anyway.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Where as you just ignored quiet a few of mine, namely the 'lizard hearted' being fiendish anti-utopia criminals who i presume deserve death, or #reprogramming# -you'll brainwash them into thinking that your system is the best.


Excuse me, but I did answer to your questions, individually and specifically. The Lizard Hearted do not need to be "brainwashed" - a great many of them are toadies too. All I am doing is pointing out how much better ALL of us, Human or Lizard Hearted, would be if toadiness was abandoned. If we took the same goal of abundance, if we take control of our planet's resources, everyone would benefit.


This is what went wrong with communism, at first they assumed they could all have everything if they worked together but it never happened, even working fairly together they still couldn't manage to live in opulence like they wanted. Stalin was sure that the 'lizard hearted' were to blame and before you know it millions of people were dead, starving and enslaved.


Except... In the efforts to make Communism work thus far, "everyone" did not work together. (Regardless of the ideal of that happening.) Most placed their faith in the leaders and let the leaders steer things. That the leaders were selfish, cronyish, and otherwise less interested in the people that they should have been, is of a vital nature in assessing why the system failed.

In my offered solution, everyone with internet access has the opportunity to work on the problem. If you know of resources, you can report them. If you know about the free energy devices, you can disclose them. If you are good at organization, you can organize. And so on.

The efforts will be fully transparent, with anyone able to see the efforts being made. Not like agreements made in back rooms somewhere on the "behalf" of the people. This would be the people themselves working for the goal.

So the best thing that can happen to the idea is to spread it, and if we can get most willing this in all they do, we can succeed.


I #did# read the bit about communism as it goes, to be honest i find it a bit vain that you think i could only grasp your great work in all it's glory if i pored over each and every word -most of it was fairly predictable and the interesting bits i'd read about from all those science fiction authors you listed earlier -but still whatever, ignore the point i was making..


I came to my assessment of your grasp based on your comments and how they did not reflect the concepts I presented. I guess it's vain to use that as my indicator...


We don't have the resources or the power to give everyone everything they want.


Well... Yes we do. It's just VERY BADLY MANAGED. (Again I say this!)


oil for example makes plastic, rubber, food additives, road surfacing and a dozern other things beside gasoline. We could use ethonol but then if everyone used as much fuel as the average american we would need a few more planets worth of food growing.


It IS moot, IF we can get to the energy in the plenum on a full scale. If we planted intelligently and fully our fields, and got distribution down, each one of us would have ten times what they could eat. You are aware that many farmers farm nothing, getting paid to NOT farm, aren't you?

Add to that the fact that efficient, organic, robotic farming could produce well more per acre than they are currently producing, and this world would overflow with abundance.


This is not a moot point, the 6billion people at the moment can't all have a car to drive every day, they could barely have enough food -certainly not the same amount of food as the average american.


This is true in this badly managed setup we currently have. But if we shifted to abundance, there is no reason all of us could not have a car (or antigrav vehicle, or whatever). So, yes. AT THE MOMENT, we are still badly managed, but that is not to say that we could not better handle the resources with today's tech to reach abundance.


To create robots, flying zen gardens and all the other things you want we will need a large investment in infrastructure, this must be taken from the maximum human potential doing power minus the power needed to survive -the current state of the world isn't great, we're hoping for a technology which will lower the cost of survival because soon we won't be able to afford to pay it. This will most likely be robots, however we will need to be able to implement the solution before we get the benefits -this, as we see during the early industrial revolution (Dickins Hard Times) this can be very painful indeed.


This is why I suggest using our "bailout" dollars to profoundly increase efforts to solve specifically the tech issues in creating our robots. If all of us are working towards the same goals, we can work wonders.


So, we reach an point at which we either manage to create robots and start a robot based system OR one in which we fail while trying and collapse society.


I don't know if you've noticed, but it's too late to save what the Lizard Hearted have done to this system, and society is on its way to collapse ANYWAY. Best that we get the word out that if we each do our part, we can have so much more. Start working for this, because in the end if we don't, society collapses, and if we do, society may collapse, but it may get phenominally better.


While in the very long term abundance is inevitable as the other poster says, however only if we survive long enough to reach it -robots is only an early step, electronics and mechanics came before and space based industry, atomic level mass manufacture will come shortly after but at any time we could be reset back to square one, thats why we need to move one step at a time and make each move count.


I think you blinder yourself to only the mainstream perspective. There is plenty of evidence peeking out from the curtains that we are far more advanced in Black Ops than you are crediting. In fact, you are clearly poo-pooing the energy of the plenum, as if it does not exist. It does, and we have drawn from it.

You are piecing together your views based on old or incomplete data.


So as i said, you book is too distant in the future for it's implication to affect us,


Only if you discount the energy in the plenum, the antigrav and other tech advances sitting in Black Ops. Did you watch Gary McKinnon's interview? Why do you have no faith in what we can do if mobilized? I agree that with no spread of the idea that we can live abundantly, it won't happen.

So like I said in the book, we have a choice. Either work together for abundance, or expect the Lizard Hearted to take out 6.5ish billion of us.

And there isn't a whole lot of time to do this in.


why don't you try making some positive difference such as learning about robots and being the person to perfect a AI for a garden maintenance robot, learning about how to get off grid and generate your own power, show people that having a well paying job and working all hours of the day isn't vital to having a good life and maybe they would enjoy life more if they worked less and spent some time sorting out their own projects which require less money but more time.


Because my forte is analying data, developing perspective solutions and writing about what I see. It is not in robotics or programming (I am retarded when it comes to math), it is not in building things, nor in anything that would relate to the rest of this paragraph.


You book basically suggests Greed as the answer, you'll say i didn't read it i just know you will or tell me that its to do with scarcity and yes it is - at the moment the most likely think to knock us off the perch and ruin society,the economy and with it our chances of installing robots, decreasing the cost of living and spreading fairness and abundance is GREED. Look at the depression, it's caused by greed -stupid greed.


Ok. I have been over this and over this. In abundance, GREED has no meaning.

How you can claim that I am claiming that greed is an answer, I am clueless.

And the depression came from a scarcity paradigm.


We can not have everything we want, not yet, maybe soon if we pull together and work to make an effective society -however maybe food shortages and riots will tare the world to bits throwing us back the the iron age and it'll be another five thousand years before we get this close to the robot revolution again.


Yes, the answer is working together. And if we had all the world working on ways to bring forth abundance, I believe we will see far more progress that you might credit us creative species with. I think that we would see innovation and solutions all over the place.


So please, stop telling people to be greedy and to want everything, flying zen gardens and teleporting water fountains -if you want to spread the route to this world it's pragmatism not greed.


WTF. See, this is why I really should just leave this as a draw and ignore your posts. I am not saying ANYTHING to anyone about choosing greed. I'm saying that if we work together, there will be no such thing as greed. Yet here you are, telling me to stop doing something, as if that is what I am doing. The things I described in my book are goals for EVERYONE. So greed is not the issue at all.

I mean... How does greed work in a world where everyone can have as much as they want?

[edit on 3/6/2009 by Amaterasu]



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Open Letter to Nature Boy

Dear Nature Boy,

I want to thank you for the opportunity to meet you, head to head. I suspect that you are not "thou," I must say, and I base this on the characteristics of your posts. I guess it really doesn't matter, as the point to a forum to begin with is to meet, head to head, and therein lies the challenge.

And the number of heads aiming at the same goal(s) is irrelevant to the value of the goal itself in terms of its ethics.

That in my book I suggest that it is the most ethical thing to do to raise ALL humans to the level of choice in life that our current Elite enjoy, and we can do just that because of where we're at on our tech now, and I gave you my sources (well, surely not ALL of them, but the crucial ones), and you ignored my sources and never took on the question of the energy in the plenum all around us (and indeed within us), getting more and more flip and accusatory while trying to look polite...

Well, it leads me to conclude that "you" might be "more than one of you" desperate to keep this status quo. (I mean, the odds are that if you're working for the status quo, which surely looks ugly in its direction, there's more than one of you playing the game here in webland.)

You are claiming that because each benefits personally, such a choice would be made out of greed. But come on, dude, what you're implying by that is that it's OK that billions suffer death by hunger in the near years to come, because you would eschew such luxury. WTF?

No one would come to that conclusion if they looked at it ethically. No one would so readily throw up their hands and insist on not addressing information and attacking, unless the status quo was their goal. They would be trying to actually look at the data and doing research.

So I wonder muchly what YOU (all of you) consider ethical, or if you consider ethics at all. I might even conclude that you are either paid by (and indoctrinated by) the Lizard Hearted, or you are, yourselves Lizard Hearted.

Please...note my speculation. If I am wrong in my evaluations, please show me where, and I will retract any or all of what I say here, upon evidence.

Thank you for hearing my perspective.

Amaterasu



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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I finally crested that soft-gray world of half-sleep, stretching my every sinew under the luxury of silk satin. With eyes parted slightly, I looked around my terrace-garden room, breathing in the scent of lilacs and orchids and rich loam, listening to the song of the larks that made the zen-jungle of my house their home.

Barbie! Barbie awakes!

Sorry, I couldn't read any further.



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


hehe i knew it wasn't just me


in fairness she does make some good points about our coming techno utopia even if it is wrapped in a awfully mawkish west coast buddism mush. You didn't miss out on much though it's all been covered in star trek already.



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 



ok, you want wall of text, you can have wall of text - personally i don't like it, but meh.



xcuse me, but I did answer to your questions, individually and specifically.

??? looking back you can't maybe see any #gaps# in your wall of text? anything you might have glossed over maybe? oh well.




The Lizard Hearted do not need to be "brainwashed" - a great many of them are toadies too. All I am doing is pointing out how much better ALL of us, Human or Lizard Hearted, would be if toadiness was abandoned. If we took the same goal of abundance, if we take control of our planet's resources, everyone would benefit.


oh dear, why don't they need to be brainwashed, what will make them (e.g. Islam, Christianity, Neo-Cons, Me) accept your new world order? Which i hasten to add is what you want.



Except... In the efforts to make Communism work thus far, "everyone" did not work together. (Regardless of the ideal of that happening.) Most placed their faith in the leaders and let the leaders steer things. That the leaders were selfish, cronyish, and otherwise less interested in the people that they should have been, is of a vital nature in assessing why the system failed.


Ok, did you ever read communist manifest or are you just guessing that the soviet state capitalist system was exactly what people like Marx and Engels talked about?
#hint# It wasn't.

They more or less describe your system, in a much more practical way of course and with less psudo-zen
History shows us that is causes many problems when you try to implement a system like this, i.e. not everyone can agree on the priority of things and we can't have everything at once (no matter how hard you wish we could)



In my offered solution, everyone with internet access has the opportunity to work on the problem. If you know of resources, you can report them. If you know about the free energy devices, you can disclose them. If you are good at organization, you can organize. And so on.


ok, you have an internet - point to the free energy, oh right yeah those .pdf's all over my ebook folder - no, none of them work, mostly due to thermodynamics. So now we have a free market system, with no incentive for anyone to do anything other than boredom - with no money, people needn't work, thus the many, many things we need don't get done -everyone does easy things like sit around and plan for the future or make lists of things for other people to do.




The efforts will be fully transparent, with anyone able to see the efforts being made. Not like agreements made in back rooms somewhere on the "behalf" of the people. This would be the people themselves working for the goal.

So the best thing that can happen to the idea is to spread it, and if we can get most willing this in all they do, we can succeed.


I 100% support the idea of total transparency in most areas of government and commerce, however people guard their privacy very closely and in an open world those who #do# plot in secret have a massive advantage, thus they quickly take power and ruin the system (as stalin did)



I came to my assessment of your grasp based on your comments and how they did not reflect the concepts I presented. I guess it's vain to use that as my indicator...

but yet you will insult my reading comprehension skills while failing to debate the actual issues - you haven't said how you will get the system installed without the need for some form of 'brainwashing', 'reeducation' or the more traditional genoside.



energy in the plenum

You are aware that many farmers farm nothing, getting paid to NOT farm, aren't you?


You failed to cover a single one of the things i said about a man I've been a great fan of my entire life, i have read many technical descriptions and workings and heard many great people speak about him - yet you still claim with no evidence that you know something about Tesla that i don't - lol, and to think i called you vain!

also did you know that NOT letting fields grow fallow caused the dust bowl of the 30's? Yes, over farming kills soil! ZOMG! We most likely first learnt that at gobeki tepe when we over farmed and created a ecological disaster which ended our first farming nation. Now we #could# trap nitrogen from the air and over fertalize the land, this would cause all sorts of long term problems, ruin eco systems and wipe out many bird and animal species which are vital to our geosphere.




if we shifted to abundance

how?



using our "bailout" dollars to profoundly increase efforts to solve specifically the tech issues in creating our robots

ok im not going to start debating economics here too, yes we need robots, no we can't have them yet -the process takes time, we need to build one then upgrade then build a better one and upgrade - thats how science works!



I think you blinder yourself to only the mainstream perspective.

lol, really? most people think i'm a kook because i think wildly outside the box -still, i suppose if i don't buy your exact brand of social engeneering then i must be a reptile or some closed minded fool, no logical and open minded person could ever disagree with you could they? hehe what was i thinking when i called you vain? what an idiot i was....



sitting in Black Ops.

hmmm.... the anti-grav? remind me which nation is doing so well at the moment they can afford to keep a tech as awesome as anti-grav under the table?

but seriously, i actually live in a village which was built around a r&d lab in the cold war, my grandfather worked in 'black ops' and many of my friends parents did too, now i'm older i know a few people who work in 'black ops' -a few that have REALLY high security. Ok, well being a science loving geek i used to go with my grandad to lectures (nothing secret) and now i talk to my friends about work (secret), so i have a fairly good idea of how the R&D arm of the military industrial complex works - they are spending billions on working out things using conventional means, they really want to be able to crack certain barriers which if they had anti-grav or uber-energy would be pointless -i just don't believe they have anything really special under the table (apart from china which has some crazy lazers but thats another thread...)

so again, you whole dream rests on a fantasy - we don't have unending resources or power.



Either work together for abundance, or expect the Lizard Hearted to take out 6.5ish billion of us.

Because my forte is analying data, developing perspective solutions and writing about what I see. It is not in robotics or programming (I am retarded when it comes to math), it is not in building things, nor in anything that would relate to the rest of this paragraph.


which i why they all started with the words 'LEARN TO' but no, you'll just write your little story and hope other people, more science minded types who understand thermodynamics like me will come along and do it all for you, well maybe if you listen to what science is telling you - we can't go on using this many resources, we need to scale back and live with in our means or it'll be the planet killing 6.5bill of us not the lizard hearts



How you can claim that I am claiming that greed is an answer, I am clueless.

yes, yes you are. WE - DO - NOT - HAVE - ENOUGH - OF - EVERYTHING - TO - LIVE - IN - ABUNDANCE!!!!! Ok, get that? that is why i am saying your message is greed, no if we had a billion every things then yes you could take what you want and no one would care, we don't and never will if people keep being greedy and keep taking more than they should. -i suppose you deny global warming and peek oil too or don't we need oil with the 'black op' tech

[edit on 10-3-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
I never mentioned "banning" anything. This is the second time I have seen this in this thread already. No, I don't think this is an offense that warrants a ban, just a slap on the wrist.

I'm sure the book is good. The problem comes in asking for donations, and then having the follow-up post coming from a newbie giving a MORE THAN GENEROUS review of the OP.
Good lord, I guess I will take my cynicism elsewhere!


Please do, and try not to "type words in the OP's post". The OP NEVER requested donations...

Lets see..


I now offer this book gratis to any and all who want to read it. Though money would be VERY nice in my life right now, I would rather usher in abundance and not have to worry about money.


Nope, don't see a request for donations there. I do see however, a brief explanation as to WHY SHE'S NOT asking for donations.

Here, I'll quote the relevant part again:


Though money would be VERY nice in my life right now, I would rather usher in abundance and not have to worry about money.


So, to me, this tells me the OP believes in her own paradigm enough to, wait for it... wait for it... that's right, PRACTICE WHAT SHE PREACHES.

To you though, it's said "gimme money". This tells us as much about you as it does about her.

[edit on 3/10/2009 by Unit541]



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

I finally crested that soft-gray world of half-sleep, stretching my every sinew under the luxury of silk satin. With eyes parted slightly, I looked around my terrace-garden room, breathing in the scent of lilacs and orchids and rich loam, listening to the song of the larks that made the zen-jungle of my house their home.

Barbie! Barbie awakes!

Sorry, I couldn't read any further.


Mind firmly closed, indeed.

Off with you then. If you cannot endure until the full message has been delivered... Heh. [shrug] Says less of me than you.



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 


Just so you know I am not ignoring this post, I have to go very soon and right now cannot address it...

But I do want to point out that a "wall o' text" refers to a single, long, unbroken paragraph.

"Unbroken" is the key word. So the fact that my replies and now your effort cannot be considered "wall o' text." They are frequently broken with quotes in between replies.

And yes, I appreciate that you chose to do it this way for a number of reasons which include that it is easier to see what I said specifically that you are responding to specifically.

Be back later with a response.



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 



Dear Nature Boy,

I want to thank you for the opportunity to meet you, head to head. I suspect that you are not "thou,"

i'm rather confused, isn't thou used to indicate the one being addressed -your letter was to me thus i am 'thou' -or are you saying i'm not a thousand? errr... no i'm not.


I must say, and I base this on the characteristics of your posts. I guess it really doesn't matter, as the point to a forum to begin with is to meet, head to head, and therein lies the challenge.



And the number of heads aiming at the same goal(s) is irrelevant to the value of the goal itself in terms of its ethics.

but you said we ALL need to work together, thus it is relevant surely?



plenum

sorry, did you miss the time i wrote a HUGE essay about this for you?



Well, it leads me to conclude that "you" might be "more than one of you" desperate to keep this status quo. (I mean, the odds are that if you're working for the status quo, which surely looks ugly in its direction, there's more than one of you playing the game here in webland.)

wow, you are good - i HAVE worked for the status quo. i hung their lighting rig at the corn exchange (true story) how did you know? Also yes they do look ugly now, crazy! Also wow, 'the game' i just lost it.

joking asside, because i don't agree with you i am an 'agent' haha oh if i had a pound for every person that called me an agent of ATS (i would have about 4 quid) - I am a rational human being, in fact the last person to have a go at me online was doing so because i spoke out AGAINST the status quo,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

crazy, but you know i get paid from diffrent agencies - NWO pay me to post in one thread, Lixards pay to post in another, then the evangelicals WOW they pay good.



You are claiming that because each benefits personally, such a choice would be made out of greed. But come on, dude, what you're implying by that is that it's OK that billions suffer death by hunger in the near years to come, because you would eschew such luxury. WTF?

Like Duuuuuude you idea is like tottaly radical and skim but like i never said it was ok that anyone suffers, I was all like 'dude - this greedy mentality of have as much of everything as you can take just isn't possible on this little rock we call home, in fact certain areas of the world already consume far too much and need to cut back so we can live within out means, carry on doing proper science and living healthy so that the whole world can work together to attain the future which only hard work and strife will bring us; then you like totally blew me out the water as were all like 'nu-uhhh i like totally saw this youtube video with this one guy who claimed tesla found dark energy and skim, we could like totaly tap into the cosmos and i could fly in my zen garden and iike everything would be awesome dood!'

So no, i don't think anyone should suffer - which is why i don't like GREED, or concepts which promote GREED such as 'use as much of everything as you like because i'm sure it will never run out -despite already pointed out the rate of use combined with the earths volume alone proves that to be impossible as a long term solution, however that is MOOT because i say it is.' sort of mentality.



No one would come to that conclusion if they looked at it ethically. No one would so readily throw up their hands and insist on not addressing information and attacking, unless the status quo was their goal. They would be trying to actually look at the data and doing research.

er... hello? I am the one that looked at the data, what did i not look at (apart from certainly over wordy and painfully dull sections of your prose)? I have explained why we don't have enough power to power your dreams, have covered teslas work -here's a recap we did manage to reinvent tesla's machine to send electrisity through the air -it's call radio -no the cosmos won't give us free energy, thermodynamics still applies. Robots will be great when we get them to work, not yet - resources will remain a problem for a long time yet. We need to change the status quo, we need rich wasteful and egotistical nations like mine and yours to stop wasting so many of the worlds resources. We need to live modestly and work on attaining higher scientific understanding and developing more awesome tech which will solve all the world problems one step at a time. Greed will see us consume all our resources and knock us down a peg or two, delay our quest for knowledge and cause more people to suffer.

Interesting little fact, in north wales due to lucky conditions the stone age settlers managed to develop a society which used bronze long before it's time, well the carried on doing this and developed a massive kingdom (maybe even the camalot ledgend) which then fell down to basically nothing when the rivers dried up of tin. it wasn't until much later in cornwall that britan was to again enter the bronze age. Fascinating hu? Well maybe one day they'll tell the story of how man got SO close to a world of abundance that he got super greedy and ruined it, falling back to near roman levels of society not to return to the dawn of a robotic breakthrough for another thousand years.



So I wonder muchly what YOU (all of you) consider ethical, or if you consider ethics at all. I might even conclude that you are either paid by (and indoctrinated by) the Lizard Hearted, or you are, yourselves Lizard Hearted.

i was quiet clear when i said i was a mammal, however my heart was invented by evolution along with the cardiovascular system BEFORE i was a mammal, however it's undergone a fair few changes -it does now pump warm blood. If you know any Lizards willing to pay me to speak out against greed then please have them U2U me ASAP because i don't want to be living like a peasent when the elite will pay big bucks! Anyway do you at least see how it could be considered a little egotistical or vain to think that TPTB are paying me to not like your book, maybe someone really doesn't like it.



Please...note my speculation. If I am wrong in my evaluations, please show me where, and I will retract any or all of what I say here, upon evidence.

Well, i'm not a lizard or an evildoer, infact i'm quiet a nice guy who works a physical job because i want to be fit without paying for a jim and I believe in actually earning the things i get -such as food, power, computers, clothes - however i try to reuse and repair most things and try not to but from immoral companies such as those who employ sweatshop tactics, etc. I believe in open source software and run Linux, doing what i can to help the community, although i don't program i can still be of some assistance in little ways, however my main thing is alternative power sources. I preach that to stop the big fat cats destroying our planet we need to all move to a position where we can look after ourselves, this means using less power and generating it near by, this stops corporate bodies having too much power and also uses the 'not in my back yard' effect to ensure that the world is kept nice, people will choose the safest and lest polluting power source if it's going to affect them directly. As i mentioned i am researching a writing an ebook about alternative power sources (yes i looked into tesla) which can be made and used away from 'the man' -- Ok, now you don't need to guess about my motives, please stop it's diverting the debate away from the issues. The issues is not am i a bad person, it's will your 'take what you want' mentality make things get better or considerably worse?



Thank you for hearing my perspective.

Thank you also for spending the time to read and reply to my perspective.



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


wow the forums i post on call it a wall of text when you post a brick of op then a brick of reply then a brick of op until the whole page is full of an impassable wall of nonsense and drivel, isn't the internet crazy. I suspect i'll find out some people don't use lol as 'lots of love' /hehe joke

oh and YOU may like the quote stacking but I HATE it, sorta reminds me of the big porn covered battle ship playing pitchshifted gabba at 230db point i raised about your utopia - Forcing people to do things YOUR way isn't fair, impinging on their 'space' isn't fair, if you think that just 'wanting' me to use a system you prefer will work well you're wrong. I'm going back to the other system. It's much more natural, who ever quotes someone in normal speach? when to lawyers in court break down the other guys statement point by point, it's only done in political speech analisis or a litery debate about a poem or something, Still it doesn't matter, however much i hate the system you use i'm more than happy to adapt and deal with it, you prefer it so you use it.

Which is maybe my whole point, you maybe are picking a greedy way of looking at it 'i want him to talk MY way' where as i am accepting the state of things and adapting my solution to deal with it, same as how you think we can all have everything, i think we need to accept our boundries and coexist with the world fairly.

Anyway, i gotta go to bed too so take your time and write me a good one
sleep well, dream sweet dreams of plenty for tomorrow you must awake to the reality of a harsh (but very exciting and super cool) world.


--oh and i'm not just being a meany about the quote wall, it took me twice as long to write the reply and i kept having to reread everything i wrote and everything you wrote because i wanted a cohesive order to my text and i kept getting lost, i guess i just write in standard flat prose because it's what i'm used to writing -hehe unless you want a poem
I read your post think about it, see how it affects my opinions then reread it bearing in mind my formulated response then i write it all down, scan read it for glaring errors (notice i never catch all og them
) and hit post, if i have to mess around with quote tags and things i lose concentration and my place.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Nature Boy,
we meet again. You might like these:
en.wikipedia.org...
ezinearticles.com...

Amesartuooo,
I like your book and the idea. New ideas are desparately needed nowadays. We should be gently talking about the difficulties involved in adopting the ideas instead of knee-jerk slamming things....

Peace



[edit on 093f20092pmTue, 10 Mar 2009 22:09:28 -050028 by HiAliens]



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
Mind firmly closed, indeed.

To bad writing, always. I'm afraid it's been an lifelong prejudice with me.

Think on this, my dear: anyone who reads a book is paying the writer the great favour of their attention. To repay them in the coin of tedium and squirming embarrassment - on your behalf, incidentally - is not merely to waste their time; it is an insult.


Off with you then. If you cannot endure until the full message has been delivered... Heh. [shrug] Says less of me than you.

You expect me to 'endure' being bored to tears?

Ma'am, I work in the words business. Stuff like your 'book' never gets past the slush pile. It's such a bad-writing cliché it actually has a name in the trade. It's called a Mary-Sue.

Let Gene Wolfe, one of the greatest living American authors, explain:


Another proverbial beginner's story is the "Mary-Sue," so named because a woman with that name wrote novel-length Mary-Sues and sent them to every house in the business. The princess (or queen) has a lovely and fantastic name: "Goldenshower of the Stormless Isle." You know. She is the hereditary ruler of Everything. She is also the universe's leading scientist and as brilliant as she is beautiful. Everyone is in awe of her. But we never see why. Her brilliance, wisdom, leadership etc. are only talked about. Never shown. This is, of course, female fantasy packaged as fiction.

An Interview with Gene Wolfe, Clarkesworld Magazine, August 2008

Your Goldenshower, or Izzy Miz Lizzy or whatever you want to call her may not be a hereditary ruler, but she sure has all the perks.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by Astyanax]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
You expect me to 'endure' being bored to tears?


One paragraph and you're bored. Like I said, off with you.

The point has little to do with readability, really, and I make no apologies for my novicehood as a writer. I am not trying to sell this work. I am promoting it as a vehicle to impart a perspective on the ills of this world.

For a better idea of why I wrote this book, please read my initial post here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway, I place no expectations on you. If you want to put your thumb down based on an initial paragraph, that's yours to choose.

But it's rude to come into this thread and make snide comments with no grasp of the full content.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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I am going to address the items you brought up mainly in the thread I wanted to post into yesterday... (As far as choosing to not quote me in addressing what I propose... Meh. Do as you will. But there is much you don't bother to address which I think is salient.)


Originally posted by NatureBoy


The Lizard Hearted do not need to be "brainwashed" - a great many of them are toadies too. All I am doing is pointing out how much better ALL of us, Human or Lizard Hearted, would be if toadiness was abandoned. If we took the same goal of abundance, if we take control of our planet's resources, everyone would benefit.


oh dear, why don't they need to be brainwashed, what will make them (e.g. Islam, Christianity, Neo-Cons, Me) accept your new world order? Which i hasten to add is what you want.


There is a VERY big difference between "brainwashing" and motivation. The Lizard Hearted are not Islam or Christianity. They are the ones who established these churches to divide us (so as to keep us conquered). As far as a "New World Order..." If one takes it at face value, yes - any major change would be a "new world order". BUT...

The "New World Order" that is spoken of here and elsewhere is a specific group which is dedicated to the goal of irradicating us. They are the Slave Masters. They are the ones who establish religions in opposition to one another and otherwise keep us ununited. So if you would, please...

Make a keen distinction between the New World Order and an abundance paradigm.



Except... In the efforts to make Communism work thus far, "everyone" did not work together. ... Most placed their faith in the leaders and let the leaders steer things. That the leaders were selfish, cronyish, and otherwise less interested in the people that they should have been, is of a vital nature in assessing why the system failed.


Ok, did you ever read communist manifest or are you just guessing that the soviet state capitalist system was exactly what people like Marx and Engels talked about?
#hint# It wasn't.

They more or less describe your system, in a much more practical way of course and with less psudo-zen History shows us that is causes many problems when you try to implement a system like this, i.e. not everyone can agree on the priority of things and we can't have everything at once (no matter how hard you wish we could)


What if... What if the abundance paradigm spread to the tipping point? What if everyone was motivated in that same direction? What if lots of money was spent in developing robots, bringing together the various places where development is currently taking place so that problems do not have to be worked on over and over? What if we did not have to worry so much about "priority" because people worked on all aspects as they had the ability to do so? Do you not think Linux is a good example of what people can accomplish, unpaid and openly, towards a common goal? Do you think if most were thinking in terms of making it happen that it would not happen?

As for Communism, which is still a scarcity paradigm, I have covered one difference between past attempts and today - that of placing action in the hands of "leaders" with no direct input into the actual process, as well as the inability to see what was actually happening. A second difference is in the application (or lack thereof because of a lower state) of technology to the problems.

But, again, abundance is not Communism.


ok, you have an internet - point to the free energy, oh right yeah those .pdf's all over my ebook folder - no, none of them work, mostly due to thermodynamics. So now we have a free market system, with no incentive for anyone to do anything other than boredom - with no money, people needn't work, thus the many, many things we need don't get done -everyone does easy things like sit around and plan for the future or make lists of things for other people to do.


Well, you have not touched Gary McKinnon... There's the Joe Cell that seems to work if properly set up... And of course, most of the stuff has vanished in the suppression efforts.

As for "a free market system, with no incentive for anyone to do anything other than boredom..." Hahaha! If you look at the people who have all the money they can use, they are not sitting around bored. They are skiing in Aspen or the Alps. They are throwing soirees. They are studying...whatever they're interested in. By your comment, I would presume they would just be bored.

That is foolish to suppose that if you could do what pleased you (and I covered this in my book - did you skip this part?), you would NOT be "unmotivated." You would NOT lack "incentive."

The only reason you might assume that there would be bordom in abundance is because you are taking a scarcity paradigm and stripping it of toil and not then allowing for the plethora of choice an individual has. In scarcity, when stripped of toil, people have few if any choices - no money to go scuba diving in Barbados, or whatever. No money to create a film, or whatever. No money to go do what it is one would rather be doing.

And, AGAIN, my book covers the "things that need to be done" issue. First, for nearly everything that needs to be done, there is someone who loves to do whatever it is...and robots can handle the stuff no one wants to do.


I 100% support the idea of total transparency in most areas of government and commerce, however people guard their privacy very closely and in an open world those who #do# plot in secret have a massive advantage, thus they quickly take power and ruin the system (as stalin did)


Sure, people guard their privacy. But there's a difference in guarding one's privacy and opening up about what one knows in regards to what could help bring about abundance for all.


but yet you will insult my reading comprehension skills while failing to debate the actual issues - you haven't said how you will get the system installed without the need for some form of 'brainwashing', 'reeducation' or the more traditional genoside.


Heh. Um... How about informing people, showing what it would look like, and doing all I can to impart the vision such that it reaches the tipping point. Once the tipping point is reached, it will come to life.


You failed to cover a single one of the things i said about a man I've been a great fan of my entire life, i have read many technical descriptions and workings and heard many great people speak about him - yet you still claim with no evidence that you know something about Tesla that i don't


Tesla tried to convince Westinghouse to go with his plan for Wardencliff (sp?), which was to draw energy and send it wirelessly. Westinghouse wanted to know how it would be metered so that he could charge for the energy. Getting no viable solution, that's when he pulled his support.

On top of that, one might wonder why the Feds scooped up everything of his and "lost" it, upon Tesla's death.

Tesla was but one. I mentioned Wilhelm Reich. Viktor Schauberger. Royal Rife. And there are more who have worked with the enrgy in the plenum. It is you who are overlooking my data.


also did you know that NOT letting fields grow fallow caused the dust bowl of the 30's? ... Now we #could# trap nitrogen from the air and over fertalize the land, this would cause all sorts of long term problems, ruin eco systems and wipe out many bird and animal species which are vital to our geosphere.


Yes, I knew that. But if we took all the land that could be farmed on this planet and rotated it, leaving it fallow as best suits the environment, farm it organically with robots that can weed and remove bugs, as well as the tilling, planting, watering and harvest... We would have at least 10 times the amount of food we need to feed everyone.

No, we don't want to artificially "fertilize." We sould be aiming for 100% organic.



if we shifted to abundance


how?


Tipping point. (See above.)


they are spending billions on working out things using conventional means, they really want to be able to crack certain barriers which if they had anti-grav or uber-energy would be pointless -i just don't believe they have anything really special under the table (apart from china which has some crazy lazers but thats another thread...)

so again, you whole dream rests on a fantasy - we don't have unending resources or power.


You really don't think they let us struggle to develop our own tech? You don't think they have suppressed anything that DOES work? Darlin', I think you are not as in the loop as you think you are. Again, Gary McKinnon will tell you you are flat wrong.

We have far more than you dream of, it would seem.

Continued...



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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...continued.


...who understand thermodynamics like me


Ah! Then you know that fully half of the equations in our modern thermodynamics were very early discarded, n'est pas? Do you understand what those discarded equations suggest? Do you know why they were discarded? How much do you really know about thermodynamics?



How you can claim that I am claiming that greed is an answer, I am clueless.


yes, yes you are. WE - DO - NOT - HAVE - ENOUGH - OF - EVERYTHING - TO - LIVE - IN - ABUNDANCE!!!!! ... that is why i am saying your message is greed, no if we had a billion every things then yes you could take what you want and no one would care, we don't and never will if people keep being greedy and keep taking more than they should. -i suppose you deny global warming and peek oil too or don't we need oil with the 'black op' tech


No matter how many capital letters and dashes you blow up my nether regions, you are wrong. We have been through the Australia illustration. We have been through the Grand Canyon illustration. Think of all the resources that are now used only for the purposes of making money - Manhattan comes to mind... There are so many resources that could be put to better uses if they were not tied up in the money system.

With all that is out there - and there is a great deal more than you suggest - we could easily have abundance. But we have to get the idea to the tipping point. And THAT is where the difficulty is.

You seem to equate working towards abundance with greed, and that is absurd. Efforts would perhaps take some from the community - but then our governments have gazillions that they have accumulated with budget accounting (as opposed to actual accounting). So there is monet available somewhere.

And please... Since you seem to know... How much is "more than they should?" Who gets to decide whether someone is taking "more than they should?" Do we include the Bill Gateses and the Rothschilds in that?

As long as we cling to a money system, we are enslaved. As long as we have people thinking in terms of scarcity and not abundance, we will remain slaves within the money system.

Clearly they have sold the scarcity paradigm very well to you.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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The moneyless resource society is the only possible way to live that ends slavery and poverty for all people, and makes the kind of futuristic civilized cooperative societies that ets live in possible to develop here. We really dont know just how much hidden, clean technoology is available, if we removed the veil and the cartel. We may have to work our our way into it. It would be worth it in the end.


Psi development is also critical for us to be protected, and to protect future generations from the MC and control of others.

I think there is a lot more technology than what is published or disclosed available. We certainly wouldnt be going back to primitive conditions with this model, in any case.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy

wow, you are good - i HAVE worked for the status quo. i hung their lighting rig at the corn exchange (true story) how did you know? Also yes they do look ugly now, crazy! Also wow, 'the game' i just lost it.


You've worked for the mighty Quo? Wow! They are, however, not ugly. They are giants among metal-midgets. The Raiders of the Lost (fourth) Chord. Awesome.


Oh, and thanks, I've now lost "The Game".



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by HiAliens
 


hehe not too sure what you're saying... the first post #is# what OP is doing to me yes....

the second link, are you suggesting i am too wordy? Great Scot! I was badgered into responding in full to every single point she made, and to post her text quoted above my answer - now i get flamed for it!

Is this because you think i'm a demon/lizard/reptile hybrid which needs to be 'extinct'??

sorry.




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