Were you born "dirty" or created in the image of God?

page: 1
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:06 PM
link   
I receive a monthly email "Marshmallow Message" - quotes from Kryon's books. I know some people might not receive "channeled" messages very well, but this one I received made me ponder the question once more (after so many times actually). Here's the message:


Don't you find it interesting that most of the religions on the planet see you as being born dirty? It's an odd posturing, is it not, for a creature of divine creation? Does it even sound reasonable that you would be born into a spiritual system where you didn't have a chance when you arrived because of something that happened eons before you got here? Does this really sound like being "made in the image of God?"

~ Kryon, Book 10, page 234 ~

Indeed. Channeled messages may be a part of a scam, but they do hit upon truths from time to time.

According to Christianity, you do not have a chance before you were even born. Before anybody is even born, he or she is doomed to an eternity in hell.

Another good point here is that we were "made in the image of God". How can we, in the images of God, be doomed to hell?

Therein lies the conspiracy of religion - we are made to feel dirty and guilty of our existence and made to depend on external help to make us feel better - i.e., through priests, salvation, reading the bible, etc.

They do not want us to realize the truth and empower ourselves and realize our true power and selves.




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:15 PM
link   
G-d made us in His image.
After the Fall, we were corrupted.
Children are sinless,
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
It doesn't take long for a teenager to realize that something is different,
Sin has entered their lives, what will they do about it?
It's a virus that affects EVERYONE.
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of G-d."

G-d sent His Son a sacrifice for those sins, so that G-d sees through His blood, when He looks at our lives. The Life is in the Blood, the payment made.
No more killing bulls or rams for humans! Not even Cattle mutilations, that's for the government!



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Clearskies
 


For arguments sake. Does this mean that god can become corrupted as well?

Personally, I don't think in his image means what some people think it does.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Clearskies
 




Sin has entered their lives, what will they do about it? It's a virus that affects EVERYONE. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of G-d."


Let's say that you inherited a disease from your parents. Is it your fault that you have the disease? Do you deserve the punishment?

One may say that you were created in the original image of God, i.e., you are without blame at birth.

This is an age old argument, but still as valid as it was 2000 years ago.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:34 PM
link   
reply to post by badmedia
 




For arguments sake. Does this mean that god can become corrupted as well?


Exactly.There is a bad logic in there somewhere.



Personally, I don't think in his image means what some people think it does.


It could mean many things. It could be spiritual.

Whatever it was meant to be conveyed, the message has been corrupted as a mean to control the masses.

The truth here is that we were never born "dirty"... we were made to think we are dirty.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:34 PM
link   
reply to post by badmedia
 





Does this mean that god can become corrupted as well?



Of course he is corrupt...look at him passing Adam a phatty...








posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:35 PM
link   
reply to post by chapter29
 


LOL good one




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 06:04 PM
link   
Nobody wants to reply to my thread?

I think this is very important and the "beginning" of Christianity theology.

If you were born "dirty", then why is it your responsibility? Why is it your fault?

If you were created in God's image, then why are you full of sin at birth, even though you haven't done anything yet?

This is one of major flaws of Christianity.

In a nutshell, "they" want you to feel guilty of your existence.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:35 AM
link   
I don't see the contradiction.

An image is not a replica.

We are made in the image of God, but we are not God.


Eric



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:46 AM
link   
I actually think our spirit is the only image of God we are ...and we do come out with pure thoughts but then life (learned behaviour and our fleshly desires etc take us over including defileing of the spirit) .....the flesh though we came from earth and will go back to earth and it is certainly born corruptable ...

Over the years we get more and more corrupt literally and spiritually ..and that is why when we get born of the spirit (connecting back with the creator) through his son Jesus..the Holy spirit in us does a washing away of that spiritual corruption and of course we eventually get a grip on our fleshly nature with his help of course ..but just keeping it under subjection enough that we dont get all caught up again in it ...(the fleshly frenzy which leads to the corruption of the spirit) .....

I could be wrong though ...but that is at least what I have experienced ...and what my thoughts are on it all ...


I also believe that we get released from this body somewhat (spiritually now) but completely physically too on that great day when the Lord changes this corruptable body into a incorruptable body ...(yes I do believe that is what is next ) ...........


So it is the body that is born corruptable and it causes the spirit to be corrupted too (which is where the real sins happen) ......





[edit on 6-2-2009 by Simplynoone]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


I think one has to consider that the word "sin" doesnt mean today what it meant back in the time the bible was written.

It used to mean "mistaken."

I dont think we are being punished for anything. I think that being born into this world with the minds we have, causes us to make "mistakes" about the true nature of things. Instead of seeing things as whole, one, and good, as we would if we were seeing through "non-mistaken eyes" we see things as divided, good/evil, life/death, etc.

I think that that is the whole point of the "search" for enlightenment. The enlightened human still has the the "mistake." If they allow themselves they still see the world as dualistic, either/or, good/evil, but I feel the enlightened being learns to see with the "eye" of Consciousness itself as well. (The third eye some traditions speak of)

We are all the "image of god." Nothing we can ever do can change this. But the "mistake" imparted by the way our physical mind works causes us to forget this and feel separate from God. "Hell" to me is simply the state one is in when they forget that they can never be separated from God. When they believe they are all alone and mortal.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:09 AM
link   
Were you born "dirty" or created in the image of God? Well, since this current reality exists in a physical plane, we were born 'dirty' (blood and amniotic goo) with the image of 'G-d' (human form). I don't understand how an immortal such as 'G-d' could be made manifest as a person made of dense matter like flesh and blood. Never mind.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:08 AM
link   
What do you mean “born dirty?”

Do you mean to say that we are born with “sin?” Or born with death? Because while death may be passed on I would argue that sin is not (some roman catholics may disagree). I mean the definition of the word (sin) seems to require a level of cognition that we’re just not born with.

Perhaps you mean our nature is dirty? If that’s so, then I would agree. After all, isn’t kind of weird that no one ever needs to be taught how to lie, steal or hurt. Rather, it’s the other way around isn’t it?

But to the rest of the OP, you said:

"According to Christianity, you do not have a chance before you were even born. Before anybody is even born, he or she is doomed to an eternity in hell."

I think this is a mischaracterization. Hell, if anything, is a choice; a choice that shows over the course of a lifetime and is lovingly and perfectly judged in the end.

Being created in the image of God simply means we bear a likeness to God. It’s probably not a visual likeness but a likeness in capacity. We love, judge, act, reason, sense, imagine..etc, in a grossly inferior way, but somehow in a similar way or “like” God.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:24 AM
link   
Some good posts.

I think some of you got what I think it means in his image. In his image I believe means consciousness/soul/spirit. Or as someone else put it, love, feel and so on, which are the result of those things.

I like that someone pointed out sin means mistake. While we are in the fathers image, we are not the father. I asked before does this mean god can be corrupted, and the answer is no. Because the father knows all. However, while we are in his image, we do not know all, and this is what creates sin/mistakes.

I generally see good and evil in terms of wisdom vs ignorance. We are born ignorant. And so we are born "evil". We do not know the truth, and so we in our ignorance make mistakes and sin/do evil. And of course, over time we learn from these mistakes. An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it, and that pretty much goes with being forgiven and so on. But another topic I suppose.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:35 AM
link   
reality vs theory.

show me one person who has never in his life lied. (not even a little white lie)

- never lost integrity. (never was forced to do soemthing they didnt want to do)
- never got angry without just cause.
- never lost control of himself
- never did something malicious?

you would have a hard time finding one of those qualities in a person, never mind all of them. and you wont find this person. he doesnt exist. because we all make mistakes. we all have made mistakes.

your suggesting that god made us this way. but that illogical. if he did then he could not possibly hold us accountable for those mistakes. not only that, there would be nothing to fix. everything wrong with humanity is exactly the way its suppose to be. now why would god create the earth just to have his creation ruin it?

your argument is based on the fact that you dont think adamic sin is logical. but it doesnt work the other way.

adam sin is passed on to his children just like any other genetic defect. not fair? of course not, that the very reason god sent jesus as a ransom, because its not fair.

we are not perfect. need proof? like real proof that your eyes can see? look around. look for a perfect person. your not going to bother, why? because you know they dont exist.

god did not create humans with sin in mind

[edit on 6-2-2009 by miriam0566]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:45 AM
link   
reply to post by miriam0566
 


Is it possible the perfection you are looking for and what you think is perfect doesn't exist?

I don't think it's all that difficult to live by the commandments. The hardest part is understanding them correctly, which is why Jesus brings understanding of them.

I'd say the hardest 2 are generally lust and gluttony. Lust especially. However, thus far in my life this seems to fade with age. Women on average at least appear to be better equipped for this than men.

Man's law is another story.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:54 AM
link   
What did God actually mean when he created Adam and Eve in his image!
After Adam and Eve sinned. God said!!! see they have become like us.

Adam and Eve was created without sin. A child which is borne to day is also borne without sin. Most children to day will not start to sin before it reaches its teens. It won't start to sin before it learn the knowledge of sin.

Sin has to be thought,seen,experienced and remembered.

If there was no evil in our world these new borne kids would probably not sin by action but in mind.

The first sin we often start with in early age is to lie and steal. And all this has to be thought,seen,experienced and remembered.

If you have a child in kinder garden. Don't you see a change in behavior after a day or two!

I did




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 09:49 AM
link   
Biblically we're born dirty:



it is also the name Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
- Genesis 2:7, Genesis 3:19

God ain't made from dirt nor is dirty. He made the dirt though and He made us with characteristics like His.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 09:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Let's say that you inherited a disease from your parents. Is it your fault that you have the disease? Do you deserve the punishment?


"...for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," - Exodus 20:5

Apparently there's something in our nature that makes us like our parents. Hope still exists however:

"'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers—their treachery against me and their hostility toward me, which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land." - Leviticus 26:40-42


Originally posted by Deaf Alien
One may say that you were created in the original image of God, i.e., you are without blame at birth.


You're making the assumption that 'image of God' means 'without defect' or 'without sin' which is not the case per Clearskies' quote.


Originally posted by Deaf Alien
This is an age old argument, but still as valid as it was 2000 years ago.


On this we agree.

Simplynoone has some good things to say as well. I'm not sure what the point of the post is though, we're all in need of saving. Is this intended to justify that some of us don't? That some of us are more 'special' and 'elite' over the person next to us?

[edit on 6-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:34 AM
link   
No, we were not born dirty.
Adam and Eve not literal story.
God's image...Love.
The dirt....freewill choices not to Love.
Children understand better than adults because they don't try to over think it, don't try to cram their personal belief system into a Natural law system that doesn't comport, or is "inconsistent" ie: Old Testament God vs. New.....Thou Shalt not Kill vs "Well not the same as murder, it must mean no killing innocent people since we have to be able to kill bad people" Christian's believing they are going to heaven vs. God's chosen being left out unless they become Jews for Jesus.

Children have a better chance of understanding God then adults because...the secular world sucks us in and tucks us away from God.

...Do you know why lawyers are forbidden, (in the U.S.) from invoking the "Golden Rule" during a trial? Because it is too persuasive, it is too good of an argument.....Not my opinion, this is a fact.

We are not born dirty but we sure get filthy the older we get.

How do you get clean? Don't by into rituals or needing to be born again or changing your religion, or give up being agnostic or atheist even. Some of that is just symbolic of wanting to be clean perhaps.

This is the Oxy-Clean for your soul and life.
1) remove hate whenever you can, you must forgive to do this, you can't intellectualize that you have done it either, it has to be real.
2) realize that almost every single decision you make on a daily basis is either "cleaning" or "getting dirty"
3) If you have never read the Bible....don't start now until you can feel the difference between "cleaner" and "not clean" When you feel cleaner it is a good time to strike up a conversation with God, when you're dirty it is more of a leave a message at the beep thing.
4) If you are an agnostic or atheist I almost envy the head start you have towards being clean enough to realize..."Hey, I like this" Hardcore Christians are so blinded by their dogmas and doctrines that they give lip service to anything that is important. ie. Gay people..."its a sin"...so lets jam another personal ideology into the ol' Natural Law God is Love thing.....got it...."hate the sin...love the sinner" (hand slap to the forhead)
...does a child think like that?
5) Once you get to the point where you can walk around in your daily life and actually feel the evils of the world trying to welcome you back and you start thinking...damn, maybe there is some real evil force working in the world....then you can look into this Jesus Christ guys teachings and life using your "childlike" innocence to appreciate the guy.
----------
some people call it the "walk" some refer to it as joining the "battle"
It is alot of work though, and I am just sitting on the sidelines because I'm not willing or ready to get back in. I never earned it when I was there because God did all the work and he did it in an instant, lasted a good 3 months but the secular world has me now, I just "know" how things should be and could be for me if I wasn't so lazy....

But the concept is sooooo simple....Love. Thats it. Allow no contradictions.....make no excuses.....no justifications....

You were not born dirty.





 
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join