President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by jBrereton

 

Sorry but I still stand by my point and my opinion that the American bail out money my tax payer money should stay in America.

Yes, that's lovely and simple for you, but Europe contributes a great deal to the US economy and vice versa. A tarriff war caused by what is supposed to be a bailout package to help the economy is going to end in less jobs in the US as trade falls with Europe. Short-sightedness in policy making is something that needs be avoided.

reply to post by marg6043


It seems that the most honest people out there usually get # on the most. Now imagine the politic scene.

Just today I saw a car filled with Obama bumper stickers. The funny thing is that while many of them said anti war, ALONG WITH THE LICENSE PLATE, Obama supports it. Not trying to generalize, but I found it funny how ignorant such a person could be. Unless of course their definition of Anti-War is something different then mine.

Obama has just passed a law limiting CEO's who accept bailout money to have a salary larger then 500,000k. What I fail to see how this is going to do anything but just give the messiah better publicity. How about fixing all the tax loop holes for ALL companies?

From start to now of Obamas campaign, I just feel like most of his moves have been "morale" ones, but in the end they are going to do nothing for the economy.

Easy money is only easy for the people receiving.

I really wish there was a hell that only accepted corrupt/idiotic government officials. Even though the people vote you in, they have no liberty in denying the trust we gave them and going haywire with decisions that feed the elite.

With all of that said, I would love for Obama to be our savior. I just doubt it will happen. Call me pessimistic, but at least I am always "trying" to make things better rather then accepting it for how it is.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by jBrereton

 

Sorry but I still stand by my point and my opinion that the American bail out money my tax payer money should stay in America.

The only solution is to change the monetary system, that for the long run. And bailouts dont help, they only postpone the fall of the system. Bailouts are a waste of money and make the deficit larger then it allready is. And i feel sorry for everyone on this planet who is affected by this scam.. Offcourse we all voted for our governments so we are all to blame.. In a way that is..

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I never seen Obama as a "Saviour" but compare to other presidents at least he is telling the nation what they want to hear when it comes to the economic crisis.

I made no illusions about the nations economical status as I was one of the first ones in this boards that screamed that the American economy was nothing than an illusion of prosperity backed by manipulation of interest rates and credit, I also claim that our nation could not survive as nation of consumers alone.

This was during the time that our own president was claiming that Americas economy was solid and prosperous.

In this board it was many like me that told the truth and saw the deception behind the numbers.

So right now we have been pushed this stimulus package just like the last one that is nothing more that a scam and like I said many times it will never work as long as the real roots of our economic problems are fix.

So with that all said I rest my case and I give this nation lest that one more year to collapse.

reply to post by Pazzzzz

Or we could just wait for this crap to play itself out.

reply to post by Pazzzzz


No, no American patriot will allow that in this nation with that said I know what is going on in my neck of the woods.

You go to any gun selling place and ask how the sells of guns are going lately and they will tell you that the American people are getting armed and ready for something.

Either to protect themselves in the coming times of emergency or else.

I don't know but I can smell in the air that something is not right and that people around are fed up.

America the complacent will stop to cease very soon.

If the economy doesn't get fix I believe that we will be facing some angry mob and in that angry mob many will be citizens with their right to bear arms and will take that constitutional right to their harts.

I hope it never happen.

But you are right this trillion dollar bail out will be the beginning of trillions of yearly budget that America can not afford anymore.

If the power behind this conspiracy of luring the population to accept a new currency think that collapsing the dollar is the best way to do it.

I got one for them coming, I will tell them that this the biggest mistake they will ever make as Americans will never give up that willingly.

I will be sure that at least I be able to protect my property when the opportunist starts to take advantage of the times to come.

reply to post by jBrereton

Yes, that's lovely and simple for you, but Europe contributes a great deal to the US economy and vice versa. A tarriff war caused by what is supposed to be a bailout package to help the economy is going to end in less jobs in the US as trade falls with Europe. Short-sightedness in policy making is something that needs be avoided.

No one is imposing any tariffs on imported good to the US because of the language in this bill. Very simply put this particular block of money was to be spent in the US only, it would not kep you from selling any goods here competitively with ours for the normal GDP.
I don't see why all the uproar over this from Europe you will still be selling your goods over here for any business you would normally get, again no one is imposing any tariffs on your imports because of this bill!

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

And you wonder why the world hates America, when there are people like you in it with attitudes like that.

You seem to be baiting me why? People like me with attitudes like I have? Feeling resentful that the rest of the world keeps trying use the USA as an excuse as to why they let the system fail also? The American average citizen had nothing to do with it.

I have always felt a kinship to the land of OZ not only because during times when America stood you stood with us. Mainly though because your people were frontiersman also.

We are not bad people, personally I really try and do the right thing. I make mistakes I am but a man. I make mistakes as so do all of us. We are not the enemy, the enemy is as usual the world central banking system. They are the root of all wars because they profit so highly from them.

We need to stop pointing the finger at each other and point it where it belongs. The people that have enslaved us with debt and used the human instinct of wanting a better life to the end.

Originally posted by jBrereton

Originally posted by Kryties
EVERY war that Australia has been a part of has been to help out America.

What about the Great War? You were a bit more punctual than the Yanks that time. Cheers and all.

But the Americans turned the tide didn't we. Did you forget that it was a horrible stalemate until we upset the balance?

Did we have any stake in that war we died in? If the USA is attacked would your people come to our aid? Wasn't Australia part of the UK empire? They HAD to go...we didn't and that is the difference.

Myth: This will ignite a trade war and deepen the depression.
Fact: Total two-way U.S. trade in goods and services amounted to approximately $4 trillion in 2007. In comparison, the economic recovery bill is projected to include approximately $90 billion for infrastructure projects. Ensuring that some of the $90 billion used to rebuild American infrastructure is spent on American materials is a tiny fraction of the $2 trillion in goods that the U.S. purchased from the rest of the world in 2007. [U.S. Census Bureau data.]

It will also create 250,000 estimated jobs.
This would be great here,especially after losing 800,000 last year alone.I wouldn't want to see it though if it meant throwing our brothers or sisters from other countries under the bus.

I personally believe our economies are past the point of return.Do you honestly think the ones in control worked so many years Globalizing our economies so we all could prosper.It's in place now.They can pull the plug whenever they like.

We are gonna be humble here in America,that's for sure.We've lived pretty well up to this point.This is only the begging though.People here are buying guns to protect their family and food against people stealing it.The ones with the me first attitudes,only caring about themselves.

Ask and I'll share,come to take or harm,another story.

reply to post by marg6043


Consumer markets can be replaced... It's not as if the world is obliged to prop up the American economy forever. At the first opportunity the international community gets there will be no hesitation to extricate themselves from their current subordinate relationship with the U.S. International consumer markets are growing rapidly. In very little time, when American taxpayers will be spending all of their time and money providing health care and other related services for a very old and very large population, young and vibrant countries such as India and China will have overtaken the greater proportion of consumerism in the world. It is a very likely scenario that American hegemony ends within the next half century.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by cognoscente

Consumer markets can be replaced... It's not as if the world is obliged to prop up the American economy forever. At the first opportunity the international community gets there will be hesitation to extricate themselves from their current supply dependent relationship with the U.S. International consumer markets are growing rapidly.

Do it now. Cut us off now. Dont threaten, just do it. Because yes, it will be rough, but we will figure something out. And anything is better than having to listen to pompous self righteous hypocrites winge on about "America did this...America did that...."

We have natural resources. If the whole world just cuts us off, we will figure out a way to feed our people. We may not have much excess junk, but you know what? I think it will be a character building experience.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I will generally assume people are rational beings. If there is an easier way to maintain a high standard of living, they will choose that option over any other. I'm thinking the option you just described would constitute as inferior. It's easier to retain a good standard of living while cooperating on the international level. Unfortunately, many people, such as yourself, are reluctant to think in the long run. You seem to value employment one week from now at a much higher level than employment one year down the road.

The reality is, it will be near impossible for America to develop their own industrial base. There just isn't enough time. It could take a decade or more. Depression would surely hit first. At the moment, Americans would rather purchase foreign goods. Conversely, the rest of the world will find it extremely difficult to produce their own consumer markets, because their own goods would be much too expensive to produce for a local consumption base.

The point is any attempt to become self sufficient would be cut short by rapid economic devastation. Sure, if one could harness all the natural resources in the country, all the human capital in the form of education and ingenuity, and encapsulate all the risk and innovation of our richest entrepreneurs, then perhaps you might have a shot. Unfortunately, that doesn't work so smoothly in a highly decentralized liberal democracy. Maybe in Mussolini's Italy, but definitely not in America. It would just take too long to be effective in any way.

It was only three years after enacting the Hawley-Smooth Tariff Act that the national unemployment rate soared to 21% from 7% directly after the initial crash. Given today's highly interconnected economy I wouldn't expect the delay to last more than 6 months. Americans would benefit for a short while due to an artificial increase in employment. But that's all it would be. Steel prices would skyrocket, and all further infrastructure development proposed in the stimulus package would come to a grinding halt because select corporations will choose to raise prices considerably. The jobs created would virtually disappear overnight. So much for sovereignty...

[edit on 4-2-2009 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by marg6043

You go to any gun selling place and ask how the sells of guns are going lately and they will tell you that the American people are getting armed and ready for something.

Yup, and the second you close your doors or the USD crashes, I have a feeling many of those guns will be used on US citizens, i.e. your going to turn inward and start killing each other in a scrap for food and other basic necessities. This is probably why the FEMA camps are being prepared.

The way it works is, the guy next door buys a gun because he knows you have a gun. Then the guy that lives over the road from him buys a gun because he's scared you and your neighbor have guns... and so on, and so on. That kind of fear is not healthy. Talk about nervous fingers on the trigger!

I find it hard to see how US citizens are going to join together when you appear so fearful of one another. I read about this fear on the forum here all the time from US citizens so this isn't my point of view as much as it is an observation.

IRM

reply to post by cognoscente


I am not saying we would "try" to do it that way. I think if we had an option, we would try to go along with everyone else and find a way to pull out of this mess.

What I AM saying is, that if the rest of the world feels America is such a boil on its rear end, cut us off right now. Stop whining about us, stop sniping at us, just do what you say the world wants to do, sever ties with us, and get it the hell over with.

Because I have faith that we can figure something out. Regardless what you say about us, we have some of the worlds most creative minds, and some of the worlds hardest working people. And I mean that literally, compare the average hours worked by Americans with any other industrialized nation.

Most of us come from families that had it rough. Most of us are not the descendants of wealthy world travelers, we are the mutts of the world. Most of us have either some personal experience of great hardship, or a parent or grandparent who has, and we CAN make it work if the rest of the world should decide it was in their best interests to just dump us.

Dont underestimate the ability of mutts to survive when times are tough. We may not live in the high style to which some of us have become accustomed, but ALL Americans have never had that high style anyway. Thats a myth. We WILL figure out a way to feed our people and keep them alive for whatever time it takes to get some kind of economy up and running.

So dont threaten us. Most of us have already had some familial experience of getting the boot from Europe and Britain. It wont be anything we havent dealt with in the past. We did it once, and we CAN do it again.



[edit on 4-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by cognoscente

It was only three years after enacting the Hawley-Smooth Tariff Act that the national unemployment rate soared to 21% from 7% directly after the initial crash.

I already addressed that in another series of posts. Correlation does not equal causation. Not every economist agrees that that caused the great depression, and protectionism sure as hell didnt cause this one. We are trading as freely as $10 hookers right now. The modern economists that think that it was the cause are the same morons that didnt see this one coming. Coincidence? I think not. I think it is because they are totally misreading the cause and effect relationship.

It is just as plausible that protectionism was a reaction to something that the people saw coming, which would have happened whether or not they went down that road, as it is that it was the cause of a crash. Just because the economists didnt see it coming doesnt mean the guy on the street didnt. It takes a while for whats going on in the street to filter up into ivory towers.

I would argue that the same factor caused both crashes and the popular economists cant see it because they dont WANT to see it. It messes up the theory they want to be true.

en.wikipedia.org...

Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped.

You cant undermine the purchasing power of your own people by shifting wealth into the hands of some few and letting it aggregate and expect your economy to purr along endlessly. The same conditions this economist feels caused the great depression are the same conditions that preceded this one. Coincidence, maybe, but I would argue that this is a far more likely theory than the "protectionist" model.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

The way it works is, the guy next door buys a gun because he knows you have a gun. Then the guy that lives over the road from him buys a gun because he's scared you and your neighbor have guns... and so on, and so on. That kind of fear is not healthy. Talk about nervous fingers on the trigger!

I find it hard to see how US citizens are going to join together when you appear so fearful of one another. I read about this fear on the forum here all the time from US citizens so this isn't my point of view as much as it is an observation.

IRM

This is a perfect example of how people from other countries do not understand the American people at all. This fear you speak of is created by our media. What you fail to understand and if you talk to anyone that has been here and lived with us for a time is we are very friendly and welcoming. We are this way with each other. We fear the unknown and this is usually a race related issue. It may be untrue but deep down everyone here understands this on a basic level. We also understand on this basic level that it is a creation to divide us.

Our guns are not going to be used against each other. I am very open with people and can get them to tell me what they really feel. Almost everyone is ready for a revolution. They are ready to take down not just the Government but the elite that have taken our jobs and sent them overseas.

We are going to be YOUR saving grace (in the long run) when we take this bunch of greedy bastards down.

You do not understand us and only see us through our media. This is not main street America. We are a beautiful, loving, caring people that are tough as nails deep down inside.

You also dont seem to understand how industrious we are. Without these greedy thugs running the show we will rebuild our factories within months after the revolt. We did not take over most of this planets culture, economy and way of life and go to the moon and back because we are divided, stupid and weak.

We did it because WE ARE AMERICANS! We have a can do attitude and ingenuity that tamed this land hundreds of years ago and is still alive but slumbering.

We will awaken this sleeping giant, and save the damn world to boot. We have to save ourselves first though. You can run with us or you can get the hell out of the way.

reply to post by HolydarknessVA


What are they going to do? Stop buying our exports?...What exports? NAFTA pretty much took care of that for them.

Personally I think "Buy American" should be the unwritten rule and should be the first rule. There are things you can't come out and say because it will upset your friends and empower your enemies. If we start a trade war (not like the UK exports anything other than music) we will be the loser. Look at how much stuff we import from around the world?

I'm done with this thread. You American's go about your 'Protectionist' ways, start a trade war and spiral the world economy even further out of control. Next will come the massive riots, followed by revolutions - enter the armies of the world, blood, guts, tears, billions and billions of dead.

I'm sorry, but that's the way it will go down, no matter whether you like it or not. Being protectionist, in this global environment, is basically opening the door for the end of the human race as we know it.

But go for it America!! You've come this far in destroying the world....why not finish the job eh

Cheerio.