Political Correctness and Free Speech

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
seems a little simple

In ESSENCE, with the way it has gotten: yes, political correctness is social coddling. Simple or not. There's no reason to force political correctness on anyone. If I want to speak a certain, I have the right to do so. Again: we're only talking about words here.

People need to stop complaining so much just because someone uses the word "retarded" or "black" or any of those things. Have you noticed that most of the time, the people complaining about the use of these words aren't even people that these words apply to?

A word is just a word, there's nothing there that can hurt you.

I'm not going to give up my free speech just because people are being ridiculous enough to try and force people to say such things as: Visually Challenged instead of "blind".

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

You are the one that came in here complaining...

lol

did not realize I wasn't welcome

also did not realize I was complaining

If you want to talk about political correctness or free speech, please respond to a comment that actually applies.

I just did - my response was to ask you what any of this has to do with political correctness or free speech - beyond your being free to treat people as badly as you believe they deserve to be treated

because - there is a little more to it than that

However; there should be no legislation requiring everyone to speak politically correct. There should be no laws limiting what words I say in public.

love the emphasis on I as opposed to we

so, on that note - how do we decide what is permissible - and what isn't? We just don't? There are no limitations? None?

no more deciding - ever again? no more thinking?

now - that's freedom

There should be no such thing so ridiculous as a "hate crime".

truer words were never spoken

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

I'm not going to give up my free speech just because people are being ridiculous enough to try and force people to say such things as: Visually Challenged instead of "blind".

and who are these people - the ones forcing you to say "visually challenged" instead of blind?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I never said you weren't welcome. And I never placed emphasis on the word "I". You did that. Everyone should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want and however they want to say it.

Everyone.

Words are NOT offensive things. You shouldn't have any limitations on what you say. The strongest restrictions: like screaming fire or bomb in a public place...are all the restriction needed.

There should be no limitation on anyone's opinion.

There's no reason to classify some crimes as "hate crimes". If someone commits a crime, the penalty shouldn't be stronger JUST because the victim was of a different skin color.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


They're not around yet, but it's getting worse and worse all the time. Soon "blind" will be an "offensive word" and they won't like it when people use it. And they're not forcing anyone yet, but there are people that want to push legislation for this.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

They're not around yet, but it's getting worse and worse all the time. Soon "blind" will be an "offensive word" and they won't like it when people use it. And they're not forcing anyone yet, but there are people that want to push legislation for this.

so, you have no faith in the system then?

and you see people's questioning what words mean, whether or not they have influence - whether or not damage can be done with only words - all of it a waste of time?

and a direct threat to your right to say whatever you want whenever you want to in whatever manner you choose?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
so, you have no faith in the system then?

and you see people's questioning what words mean, whether or not they have influence - whether or not damage can be done with only words - all of it a waste of time?

and a direct threat to your right to say whatever you want whenever you want to in whatever manner you choose?

I never said I had no faith in the system. I don't have a faith in society. People aren't questioning what words mean, they're attaching offense because people are told to feel sorry for people that are different.

Damage can NOT be done with words, trying to figure out if it can or not IS a waste of time because words are not painful.

And political correctness IS a direct threat to my right to my own opinion. It's a form of controlling what people say. Especially when people try and legislate it.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

I never said I had no faith in the system. I don't have a faith in society.

society is the system - whether you choose to see it or not

it isn't perfect - but what is?

People aren't questioning what words mean...

but they are - this is exactly what they're doing

they're attaching offense because people are told to feel sorry for people that are different.

your perception - no doubt - of a complex situation - a series of societal trends and events that are attempting to right some wrongs and bring about some balance

if we lay it on a little thick at times - well...

I think there are worse crimes against humanity than this - but, maybe that's just my opinion

Damage can NOT be done with words, trying to figure out if it can or not IS a waste of time because words are not painful.

now - here's my question for you - please try not to dodge it:

is this only true for you - or is this true for all people?

and - is this something you - or anyone - can prove (or disprove - for that matter)?

And political correctness IS a direct threat to my right to my own opinion. It's a form of controlling what people say. Especially when people try and legislate it.

so - back to the subject of political correctness and freedom of speech

you are right - there are definite threats that exist to our freedom of speech

there always have been - from day one - there always will be

or, at least until that stage in human development where we've evolved into brilliant, marvelous creatures without any flaws - and possibly the ability to walk through walls - or on water even

in some of these threads - what I've seen is not so much peoples genuine fear about losing their right to freedom of speech - so much as a kind of laziness and self indulgence

whatever rights we have - and whatever the system in place to protect those rights - it never rests

if it rests it dies

we do not get to decide on a rule, go home - and quit thinking

merely saying that words can't harm you because you think questioning that somehow is going to degrade your rights - is childish - at best

however - what we're doing right now - in this thread - and in editorials - and picket lines - and protest marches - and voting booths - this is what it's all about

it's never going to end - there will never be a final decision

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
now - here's my question for you - please try not to dodge it:

is this only true for you - or is this true for all people?

and - is this something you - or anyone - can prove (or disprove - for that matter)?

My statements that words do not hurt applies to ALL people. A word will never leave a scar or a bruise on you, it will never make you bleed, it will never endanger your life. It will never to any of these things to anyone.

And here's the proof: A word is a sound and nothing more. Whether we yell it, or whisper it or speak it calmly; whether we hesitate to say it or mess up the pronunciation. It's a sound. These sounds do not attack, you hear them, but they can't actually harm you. You will never end up in the ICU because of a sound that someone made.

Hearing does not hurt, seeing does not hurt, therefore words can't hurt because they are only something that you see or hear.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


sorry - that was still dodging - and simplistic

but it looks like you're either not going to take it seriously - or you really don't understand what I'm going for

let me make it a little clearer by asking - peoples minds and emotions can never be hurt by words?

or is it that peoples minds and emotions matter to you not at all - you place no value on these things - the only way anyone can ever be hurt is physically?

it will never endanger your life...

you sure about that one?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Now you're getting ridiculous, I directly answered your question and you tell me I'm dodging you. The fact of the matter will always be that sounds do not hurt someone. If a person wants to attach unnecessary offense to a mere sound, that's their own issue. But a word, by itself, will never hurt someone.

And yes, I am absolutely sure that you will never lose your life over a word.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

The fact of the matter will always be that sounds do not hurt someone. If a person wants to attach unnecessary offense to a mere sound, that's their own issue. But a word, by itself, will never hurt someone.

then the absence of sounds will never hurt someone

And yes, I am absolutely sure that you will never lose your life over a word.

you will never lose your life over a word...

if words are so inconsequential - why all the fuss?

how dangerous could it really be to lose the right to use something that has absolutely no meaning - no influence - no impact whatsoever?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Because everyone has the right to express their own opinion. No one's opinion is going to hurt anyone else. It's just an opinion. There shouldn't be any laws telling anyone what opinions they can and can not have.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick

Because everyone has the right to express their own opinion. No one's opinion is going to hurt anyone else. It's just an opinion. There shouldn't be any laws telling anyone what opinions they can and can not have.

we are in complete agreement on this - and if you had actually read anything I've been saying - you'd know that this is not the bone I'm picking

it still doesn't answer most of my questions

so, are we done - or, do you want to go back and answer them?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I have no idea what questions you are talking about, even when I answer your questions directly you accuse me of dodging them. So, it really doesn't matter now does it?

More BS and propaganda i see....

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick

People tell you to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

Sucks for you.... and i thought you had free speech over there??
but yeah...that is BS...a rumour, we had similar here with"winterville"... ti=urns out it was a rumour released just to cause more tension

Or "oriental"

News to me... again, where is your wonderfull free speech?

Or "black"

ahhh...this is where the propaganda and BS come into play.
any sources for this?
Or ya just making it up?

They don't like the word "gay"

Again... really?
Sounds like your usual...er.... misunderstandings to me.
usually when someone starts a thread, they use sources and information to back up what they're saying?
Do you have any?

Or "retarded"

And yeah.... for obvious reasons.
like spastic, or other derogatory words...

reply to post by blupblup


We do have free speech, we can currently say all of those things whenever we want. My point is that legislating that people MUST be politically correct at all times would be a breech of that free speech. There are no derogatory words. A word is nothing more than a sound.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


it matters to me - I'd like to hear your answers

but answering them is up to you

peoples minds and emotions can never be hurt by words?

or is it that peoples minds and emotions matter to you not at all - you place no value on these things - the only way anyone can ever be hurt is physically?

and also:

if words are so inconsequential - why all the fuss? how dangerous could it really be to lose the right to use something that has absolutely no meaning - no influence - no impact whatsoever?

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


Not getting into it again....as you "ran away" on the last one... (see how silly that sounds )

But do you have sources or info backing up your propaganda?
where are the sources backing up your "christmas" one for example, or your "black" one...?

Oh that's right... you have none!!




Your whole argument is that "words don't hurt"

I absolutely proved they do?

But you still say it's subjective and people should grow up??
THAT is your logic??

What is the point in even discussing it.... your minds made up and that's it?
Not gonna change because words are just words.....

[edit on 1/2/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup


I didn't run away from the last thread. In fact, I have the last post in that thread.

As far as the "happy holidays" thing goes. Here's a story from the state I live in: Happy Holidays

Here is another link from USATODAY.

You never absolutely proved anything. It is subjective, you can't be hurt by a sound. Maybe you'd like to read some other opinions that have placed here where other people say that words are only hurtful if you want to attach something to them that isn't there.

Spiramirabilis:

It's already been said more than once that words are only hurtful to those to blind to remember that sounds can't hurt you.

Again: The fuss is about the fact that everyone has the right to voice their opinion. Restricting that is a step towards Marxism.