mexico open border

People should be able to live where ever they find it necessary to live. The United States is not some club that you have to be born into.

Bring on the immigrants! May they work hard and displace any lazy, stupid or ignorant American whom they outperform!

Originally posted by _alien
People should be able to live where ever they find it necessary to live. The United States is not some club that you have to be born into.

Bring on the immigrants! May they work hard and displace any lazy, stupid or ignorant American whom they outperform!

Better yet, may they rob and take the job of the stupid, ignorant, lazy posters who have no clue what they are talking about. Oh, and may they ebat the living # out of you too.

Theres plenty of Americans who would gladly take the jobs being occupied by illegals too LAZY to get legit work permits.

Illegal immigrants also get something the rest of America does not get: free education and free healthcare, something WE have to pay for.

My guess is that people like alien are too stupid, lazy, and ignorant to mow thier own lawns, clean thier own houses, or hire normal American workers at human wages, sicne hes probably some cheapskate who pinches pennies.

bring on the illegals indeed.

Bring 'em on.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Better yet, may they rob and take the job of the stupid, ignorant, lazy posters who have no clue what they are talking about. Oh, and may they ebat the living # out of you too.

Beat and rob, eh? What is the point of that?

As for my job, I wish them the best of luck. If they can do my job better for less, that is my fault.

Theres plenty of Americans who would gladly take the jobs being occupied by illegals too LAZY to get legit work permits.

Great, then let those Americans compete for those jobs.

Work permits are dumb. I don't believe the State should have the right to allow only those with a permit to work. People should be free to offer their labor to whomever, wherever. As long as it is the law, however, it is most certainly illegal to work without a permit and those that violate that law should bear the consequences.

Illegal immigrants also get something the rest of America does not get: free education and free healthcare, something WE have to pay for.

Where can I sign up?

Seriously, that's up to the representatives elected by the people in the states where those programs are administered. Perhaps you should work to change those laws. While it does seem unfair that those services have to be paid for by someone else, I believe that keeping people healthy and educated benefits everyone -- not just the people who receive those services.

My guess is that people like alien are too stupid, lazy, and ignorant to mow thier own lawns, clean thier own houses, or hire normal American workers at human wages, sicne hes probably some cheapskate who pinches pennies.

Guess again. Because you seem to enjoy guessing games, my guess is that people like Skadi_the_Evil_Elf say they believe in liberty and free enterprise until a dark-skinned fellow from south of the border comes looking for work, and then they turn into whining protectionists.

I try to understand why so many people are so anti-mexican but as hard as i try i dont see the reason. Mexicans are crosssing the border so many times because this is the land of oppurtunity. Mexico has a very low economy and there are not many chances to get a goo job and The united states seems like a good place to find jobs and send money back to Mexico. Mexicans arnt taking away the jobs of people. i think an open border would be a great idea. An intercontinental union between U.S. Mexico and Canada

Originally posted by _alien
As for my job, I wish them the best of luck. If they can do my job better for less, that is my fault.

Only if you blame yourself for thinking that being literate and sleeping less than 10 people to a room is a good thing.

Know any American construction workers in the southwest? There are jobs which American citizens would be happy to work being taken by illegals simply because they can work cheaper. No taxes paid, no insurance to worry about, no forum to complain at mistreatment, and wages far below minimum. Why is this acceptable to them? Because their acceptable standard of living is far below ours.

They want to come here becaue it sucks so bad there. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, Mexico and the US have been settled for approximately the same amount of time. So the reason it sucks so bad there is...? Let them colonize and you'll just have a slice of crappy Mexico right here in the US. Yay!

Don't paint me with the wrong brush; legal immigration is one of the cornerstones of America. LEGAL Immigration, mind you. Go through the channels, pay your taxes, enjoy the standard of living we've all worked so hard to make. And no, don't even mention bilingual education--if you want education in Spanish, go to a Mexican school! Those who want to chintz the system and go it illegally, do us a favor and stay at home. We have enough welfare-sucking freeloaders and prison cell occupants on our own, thanks.

I'm all for the motion-activated turrets and razor wire, myself. What good is it having a border that means nothing?

Originally posted by Kaiser617
I try to understand why so many people are so anti-mexican but as hard as i try i dont see the reason. Mexicans are crosssing the border so many times because this is the land of oppurtunity. Mexico has a very low economy and there are not many chances to get a goo job and The united states seems like a good place to find jobs and send money back to Mexico. Mexicans arnt taking away the jobs of people. i think an open border would be a great idea. An intercontinental union between U.S. Mexico and Canada

Relax with the racism crap...if they were black, irish, italian...whatever...it'd be the same thing...open borders dont work...and yea...thats what we want...people making tax free money here to send to another country...great...what an economy booster...we are the land of opp...but we have enough people...and should have some restrictions as to who and how many of what group can come...we dont have open ranges and empty cities anymore...

[Edited on 5/13/2004 by BasementAddix]

First of all, you can't 'try to understand" ... this invasion is NOT an abstract to understand. We HAVE they HAVE NOT - it's pretty simple. Take from those who HAVE.

The fault is Mexico's for not providing for its own people. In the past decade over 11% of Mexico's considerable population has moved here.

They are un-skilled, un-educated, and have absolutely no understanding of how our system works.

In fact, if you wish to educate yourselves, talk to a 3rd generation illegal alien living here sometime - they HATE the new illegals - and why? Because everything they left Mexico for is being brought here behind them.

As for racism? You don't know many of these new immigrants do you?? Visit www.aztlan.net... and see for yourself fools. They laugh at the likes of what I've read here.

As for a Union of the Americas? Try getting the benefits WE GIVE to them over there in those countries ... you'll be in a Mexican prison before lunch.

This world can't handle "Regions" and "Globalism" ... in every corner of the planet there is resistance - EXCEPT HERE. Do you really think China is open to a borderless planet? Yeah right.

Only those stupid enough not to learn their history don't see the social disaster coming.

Before you pontificate on the subject, get your hands dirty in it first. There are those speaking who've never encountered an illegal alien in their lives - and there are those of us who've spent many hours on the border and know first hand what these new immigrants are all about.

When our existing social net breaks, these nice new immigrants will be the first ones in the streets rioting - and you will be their first targets.

If youre worried that Mexicans are going to lower the value of the dollar or that they are going to ruin the economy i've got to tell u thats not going to happen. If ur worried about the economy then why arnt u asking urself why are most of the products that are used in the U.S. foriegn made. China makes most of the things that the american people use. If u look at almost everything it says made in CHINA. Walmart makes most of its goods in China because of the cheap labor. The U.S. should try to help Mexico with their economy. And it wasnt the same with the Irish and African Americans and etc. I bet that each one of your ancestors came from a European country so what gives you the right to tell people that they cant come into the land that gave your desecndants a chance to start over and to overcome their difficulties.

First of all mexico used to own must fo the west of this country before driven out by gringos. Then one of the reasons that they come into this country for work is because must of them are farmers and they just like small farmers in US are loosing their farms to big corporations this mexicans are loosing their land to an overwhelming bombarment of cheap american products, What most people does not know is that while we pay high prices for products in this country thirth work countries are bombarded by our products at a cheaper price making small farmers not able to compete. An the US goverment even gave corporations export subsidies or credits to help them dump their food abroad. In other words we the consumers in US pay with taxes for the money this big american corporations loose. And here are some of the names of this corporations. Philip Morris, Conagra foods, pegsico, coca-cola, cargill, archer daniels midland and dole food. Does that sounds familiar? Thanks Reagan, and bush father and son for all this, and lets not forget our secretary of agriculture Ann veneman she has financial atachments with one of the most influentials corporations in US the Gallo family. So dont blame this people that comes to this country looking for work most of them has lost their jobs to america interest and big corporations.

FYI, I'm an American but have lived in Mexico for the last 8 years. And I see a lot of people here that don't seem to have much knowledge about this topic but are very fond of rambling on with their gloom-and-doom xenophobic comments.

(6) That the laws which govern them are those of their home country - not US law. This includes home country criminal penalties too

Bad idea. Sentences in Mexico are generally less than in the U.S. and there is currently a 40 year maximum on any sentence. Even murder. I'll take the U.S. legal sytem and U.S. penalties for punishing crimes, plus you have the benefit of not appearing to condone a racist double standard.

Third, Mexico is NOT the superpower of South America - ever hear of Brazil (among others). They have their own space program - and a solid economy.

Sorry, wrong. Mexico is the superpower of South America and growing quickly. It's also much closer to the world's superpower (US) which makes it that much more important. Brazil's space program tends to explode--I don't think they've got anything into space yet, have they?

Fifth, To achieve parity the United States will have to reduce it's level of education and development DOWN to a point that there isn't such a huge gap between US and Mexico - Does anyone want that???

That's absurd, sir. Mexico will be forced to improve or die off due to inefficiency and lack of education. Believe me, that's what Mexicans are afraid of... not being able to compete with the U.S. in a free market!

They come to take - NOT to contribute

That is so much BS I can smell it from here. I live in Mexico and when I lived in the U.S. I knew many, many illegal aliens. None of them moved to the U.S. to take. They were all hard-working, most working two full-time jobs and paying taxes under false SSNs. They did not take anything, healthwise or benefits wise, because they were afraid of being caught and deported.

They are un-skilled, un-educated, and have absolutely no understanding of how our system works.

Ironically, many of them know more about how our system works than some of our own citizens!

In fact, if you wish to educate yourselves, talk to a 3rd generation illegal alien living here sometime - they HATE the new illegals - and why? Because everything they left Mexico for is being brought here behind them

A 3rd general illegal alien? How many of those are there? And, by the way, they didn't leave Mexico because they didn't like Mexico. They left Mexico because they can make a lot more money in the U.S. even if it means working two jobs to make ends meet. They tend to love their culture and help out other illegals that they run into.

It's the legal immigrants that generally don't like the illegals because, of course, the legal immigrants went through the work and process of doing it right so they are offended by those that take shortcuts.

As for racism? You don't know many of these new immigrants do you?? Visit www.aztlan.net... and see for yourself fools. They laugh at the likes of what I've read here.

That organization is a radical group. It's like calling Americans racist because some miniscule part of our population is a member of the KKK. In Mexico no-one has even heard of Aztlan nor does anyone believe that any part of the U.S. will ever be returned to Mexico. Learn to differentiate a radical fringe movement from the Mexican society as a whole, please.

As for a Union of the Americas? Try getting the benefits WE GIVE to them over there in those countries ... you'll be in a Mexican prison before lunch.

That's absurd. They are so unorganized down here they probably wouldn't even realize it. And you can pretty much get out of any crime as long as it isn't serious (murder, rape, etc.) with what they call an "amparo." It's pretty much a "get out of jail free" card.

Anyway, some of you people clearly need a reality check, need to learn the subject a little more in depth, maybe meet some illegal aliens, and maybe even live in Mexico for awhile. Your view of Mexicans is absolutely wrong as are your conclusions and it is based on xenophobia, ignorance, and fear.



[Edited on 13-5-2004 by letxa2000]

Bravo Letxa 2000, I am spanish and puertorrican and for the last 7 years I had work with migrant workers, first with a law office and then with the education system and what it hurt me the most is when people in this country can be so hateful about this people that most of them come to work in jobs that a regular american will not do, but they have not problem bashing and mistreading them, some of this migrant workers sufer increadible harship.

The mexican government is going to remain less than enthusiastic about improving life for its lower class citizens as long as the U.S. serves as a ready solution to its socio-economic problems.

Supporting illegal immigration = Supporting the status quo

Never leading to a solution in the home country where there seems to be a very large gap between the haves and the have nots.

I actually agree with phoenix, until we can influence Mexico to increase it's standard of living, we will continue to be a ready-made solution. Perhaps we should remove *all* outsourced markets and saturate them in North America entirely. U.S., Mexico, and Canada alike, for 10 years and see what would happen.
Then enhance the numbers of border guard and include incentives if someone wants to cross legitimately, such as refunding their permits once they return to their country of origin. Thus those that stay have payed, those who hop back get their hard-saved money back upon return. just a thunk.

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Crysstaafur]

damn it was a joke, i love mi mexicanos, i just always laughed at that joke for some reason


its all good, just two more years i'll be back in tha hood~~~~~~~~~~!


1ne

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by SniperEye]

Originally posted by SniperEye
*inappropriate joke deleted*

That is in poor taste and downright rude!

Save it for the mud pit, not here!

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Banshee]

Um, I not only have met illegal aliens, I used to live around them. I stand in the same place.

Alot of the illegals were criminals.

Not to mention other problems, like driving.

I was hit on the side of my car while making a left turn by another car. They tried to drive away, but were blocked. they got out. Didnt speak english. I showed them my drivers license and asked them for thiers and thier insurance. INone. i asked me again, pointing to my drivers liscence, for thiers, they didnt have one. They got back in thier car, still speaking spanish and not answering me, then backed out, drove over the curb, and left.

As if our roads arent bad enough. traffic accidents are alot higher down by the border.

Then theres the issue of health. Illegal immigrants can carry a number of illnesses. When they cross the border and get assimilated here, they spread those illnesses. Illnesses that in normal industrialized nations are not even an issue. Several times, we had outbreaks of heptitis a, meningitis, typhoid, TB, in our schools because all the illegal kids, who were not checked, treated, ect, crossing the border and bringing them to the US. With no one to check thier health, they can bring alot of illnesses to the US, and cause many outbreaks. I remeber the strawberry scare, when strawberries were infected by heptits a, from illegal farm workers who, unchecked and not documented, bore the iullness with them.

And washing fruit doesnt kill all bacteria either.

I will say again, ILLEGAL immigration is a grave problem, and the majority of it comes from Mexico. Its a problem that needs to be curtailed quickly.

If they come over LEGALLY, then everything is fine. But if they are ehre with no paperwork, no documentation, then its time to send them back.

Originally posted by _alien
Bring 'em on.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Better yet, may they rob and take the job of the stupid, ignorant, lazy posters who have no clue what they are talking about. Oh, and may they ebat the living # out of you too.

Beat and rob, eh? What is the point of that?

As for my job, I wish them the best of luck. If they can do my job better for less, that is my fault.

Theres plenty of Americans who would gladly take the jobs being occupied by illegals too LAZY to get legit work permits.

Great, then let those Americans compete for those jobs.

Work permits are dumb. I don't believe the State should have the right to allow only those with a permit to work. People should be free to offer their labor to whomever, wherever. As long as it is the law, however, it is most certainly illegal to work without a permit and those that violate that law should bear the consequences.

Illegal immigrants also get something the rest of America does not get: free education and free healthcare, something WE have to pay for.

Where can I sign up?

Seriously, that's up to the representatives elected by the people in the states where those programs are administered. Perhaps you should work to change those laws. While it does seem unfair that those services have to be paid for by someone else, I believe that keeping people healthy and educated benefits everyone -- not just the people who receive those services.

My guess is that people like alien are too stupid, lazy, and ignorant to mow thier own lawns, clean thier own houses, or hire normal American workers at human wages, sicne hes probably some cheapskate who pinches pennies.

Guess again. Because you seem to enjoy guessing games, my guess is that people like Skadi_the_Evil_Elf say they believe in liberty and free enterprise until a dark-skinned fellow from south of the border comes looking for work, and then they turn into whining protectionists.

I believe in protecting our borders from anyone, regardless of skin color, who would sneak across and benefit without contributing.

Americans cant compete with someone who works for 2 dollars an hour. You wanna work for 2 dollars an hour? Then do so. Some of us believe in minimum wage.

You want to sign up for free benefits and stuff? then change your citizenship, then sneak across the border. Youll get it.

Whoa, it's the first time I saw that Aztlan crap and I wish I could apologize on behalf of Mexico. I wish some of you could see the scene here in Ciudad Juarez/El Paso, both cities are really connected and almost work in harmony. Of course the mexican side is less than desirable (you can feel the change when coming and going), and you can see why people want to go to the US by any means possible. And this is a problem for Ciudad Juarez because a lot of illegals get sent back and they are stuck in CJ and most turn to crime (remember all those Sergio Leone films, it's kind of feels like that here except with concrete, cars and different clothing). I also totally agree that the problems illegals have are the cause of the Mexican government, but I've always pondered that the US could help Mexico a bit, I mean there could be another way of working together to help lower the want of illegals to go to the US; don't see it as an obligation, but rather as a helping hand (and yeah I know Mexico owes money to everybody) on at least education, jobs or whatever. This has worked in this region where American companies used to have lots of maquilas here and many lower class Mexicans had jobs, all was good until they moved shop to China. I think I'm rambling now, but the solution would be a joint effort on mainly helping Mexico get out of the rut a bit, call it by charity, good will or whatever. But life isn't simple as that of course.

EDIT: Woops and I totally skimped on the question that started the thread. It would be great if an open border existed between the two, if only Mexico was a little more balanced and those damn drug traffickers went up and exploded.

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by drbriefs]

NAFTA was supposed to help in part the illegal immigration process, but as we can see, it didnt. Sending jobs to Mexico did not improve the quality of life substantially to make staying at home better.

I cant possibly understand why they must resort to illegally slipping the border, when with little effort they could simply get a work visa, get screened, and come over LEGALLY. They could get paid better wages that way and enjoy better protections.

And getting a legal work Visa from Mexico to the US is VERY easy.

So, one must question the motives of such people when they sneak in.

Here's the deal in Houston.

They come here and get free medical care by the hundreds of thousands and it is payed for by my local taxes.

They also account for about 20 percent of the kids in public schools in the city that my taxes are educating. Keep in mind that I think everyone deserves a good education and I'm just stating points here.

If a person in Houston wants to get a job as a cook, in construction, in a buisness such as landscaping, etc... he will likely be overlooked if he is not bilingual do to the fact that he will not be able to communicate on the job site with his co workers creating a saftey hazzard even if he is willing to work cheaper.

They don't for the most part speak English and they drive with no insurance or drivers license. They dont obey the rules of the road.

In my neighborhood that is surrounded by them they put out the heavy trash a day after the truck comes by which only comes by once a month, they park junk cars in the yard three deep. they allow their kids to play unsupervised in the street, they never cut the grass, they play their radio till you call the cops to shut them up, they shoot off guns and fireworks till three in the morning on holidays, they blow their horns in the driveway over and over late at night instead of getting of their rear end and going to the door of the house they're visiting. Do you get the drift?

I cant even go to the station on the corner for gas without almost getting run over by some stupid Mexican that doesn't know you're supposed to yeild to the right. Just tonite I was going to get gas when my truck was almost broadsided. The driver who almost hit me couldn't speak English. The lady who lives down the street was with him. I said "Mrs Perez are you two OK?" She said, "He just came from Mexico." Go figure.