mexico open border

The problem is... the cost of a visa, let alone being able to afford the trip in a manner consistant with highway regulations. The peso is not worth near as much as a dollar and with jobs there being a premium, it would be seem to be insane to try and save up and go rather than take a chance of getting arrested and hopping the border. Had the Mexican Gov't,Commerce, and Financial Institutions taken a thorough look, they would find a lack of Industry. If Mexico was Industrialzed a lot more than it is then the issue won't be as dramatic. How would one go about setting up markets and plants in Mexico and who would pay for them, that is where the root of the problem lies. I still maintain my postion of a heavily regulated border that is not necessarily closed but well guarded and requires certain credientials of the individual in order to cross.

All true and valid points, when I went to high school in El Paso I remember it was the "hardcore" narrow minded mexicans that scared me the most (gang bangers that are also common on the mexican side and generally all of the most stereotypical mexican you can imagine) that can't quite grasp the notion that they are living in a different place and that they should at least adhere to the culture, rules and regulations of the place they are living in; I sympatize with you TCN cause stuff like that has happened to me...and I'm Mexican!
Yeah NAFTA was bad I agree and I think that to get a work visa you must actually be employed (and they don't apply to minimum wage jobs) and have sponsorship by your company. The only way you can get any other type of visa or residency is if a relative lives in the US and applies for you; but I think you could also get a "cross and go back" visa and try to find work so you could get sponsored. But still, most companies ask for residency or citizenship so that's kind of the only option feasible, to cross illegally.
I also think that a lack of education of those wanting to cross adds greatly to the equation; if the Mexican government only warned them of what awaits them and how hard it is to make it (to just make the daily bread) as an illegal immigrant, because I think most see it as an opportunity. Which of course, it's not and just makes it worse for everybody.

EDIT: Crysstaafur, yep you got it right on. I would add to that EDUCATION - Mexico may have a high academic achievement, but it amounts to # when there's no job market or opportunities to make it in other ways than a doctor.

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by drbriefs]

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by drbriefs]

They dont have the money to get a visa?

Then how do they manage to pay smugglers hundreds, if not thousands of dolalrs to smuggle em over the border?

I have known many legal Mexican immigrants in the US with Valid greencards who were employed in very low paying/minimum wage jobs.

I believe we have some special immigration deal with Mexico, so I still cant understand why any decent person would sneak in.

People in poorer countries than Mexico manage to come here legally every year.

It also takes years before one gets a response from INS (it has a new name I think), then once you go and do the whole shebang, more years to get a yes or a no. Of course, illegals choose not to do all that and try to make a run for it. I know these are not logical reasons, but for them they are, and that's why many legals are pissed at illegals; not jealousy, just the fact that they choose the easiest (also dangerous and of course, illegal) way.

When you are dealing with the wonderful and colorful world of smuggling do you really think it has to paid in money? ohh I am sure you take a few guesses at what alternatives would exist for those who can't afford it, as they are quite graphic. It could be possilble that they may have an internal job as an underground corieur (a smuggler being smuggled carrying contraband). I wonder if they made *hundreds* just to hop the border illegally they why would they take an expensive route, unless it does have to do with Education, then perhaps so, though that would reflect a lack of common sense than education on the person being smuggled.

Goddess forbid, someone agrees to be smuggled into the U.S. with a bomb strapped to them to destroy a target instead of paying (or doing whatever with) the smuggler.

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by Crysstaafur]

Phoenix: The mexican government is going to remain less than enthusiastic about improving life for its lower class citizens as long as the U.S. serves as a ready solution to its socio-economic problems.

That's silly. The U.S. doesn't serve as a ready solution to Mexico's socio-economic problems. Even with the illegal immigration, Mexico's domestic population is growing and is already over 100 million. Mexico's problems persist for its resident population regardless of the fact that some Mexicans head north to quickly resolve their financial problems.

Also, the idea that any country would neglect its own progress just because they have a rich neighbor is just dumb.

Never leading to a solution in the home country where there seems to be a very large gap between the haves and the have nots.

This is a problem in Mexico (and many countries worldwide!), but it's not going to be solved by shutting down the border. Perhaps it'll help Americans live in suburbia and close their eyes to the reality of the world, but shutting the border is not going to automatically fix the large gap between the haves and have-nots in Mexico.

Crysstaafur: Until we can influence Mexico to increase it's standard of living, we will continue to be a ready-made solution.

Again, silliness. You think that Mexico doesn't want to increase its standard of living? You think they just need to be motivated or "influenced" to do better? Heck, we ought to influence the entire world then.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf: Alot of the illegals were criminals.

A lot of citizens and legal aliens are criminals, too. What's your point?

Illegal immigrants can carry a number of illnesses... Several times, we had outbreaks of heptitis a, meningitis, typhoid, TB, in our schools because all the illegal kids, who were not checked, treated, ect, crossing the border and bringing them to the US.

That's just racist crap. Anyone can carry a number of illnesses. It's not like the population of Mexico is down hear dying of these diseases. Last I checked Mexico had a lower rate of AIDS, for example. And the "outbreaks" you mentioned could have just as easily been acquired by those people while they were in the U.S. as in Mexico. Was it a bunch of illegals that were sick? Well, maybe because they hang around with each other. Doesn't mean they're all a bunch of sickly people, just that someone got it and it spread to the people they spend time with. Same thing would have happened if an American got it and spread it around his social group.

I remeber the strawberry scare, when strawberries were infected by heptits a, from illegal farm workers who, unchecked and not documented, bore the iullness with them.

Without migrant workers picking the crops, you probably wouldn't even have strawberries. Or they'd be way too expensive.

I cant possibly understand why they must resort to illegally slipping the border, when with little effort they could simply get a work visa, get screened, and come over LEGALLY. And getting a legal work Visa from Mexico to the US is VERY easy.

A little effort? It's not that easy nor is it a matter of effort. It's time. And the ones that are normally slipping through illegally won't even be granted a turist visa let alone a work visa. Even educated Mexicans with college degrees have to get on a waiting list that is years long before even being considered to get a work visa.

If they come over LEGALLY, then everything is fine. But if they are ehre with no paperwork, no documentation, then its time to send them back.

Let me be clear that I agree with this 100%. I'm American, my wife is Mexican, and we'll probably someday move back to the U.S. Of course, she will do so legally. I'm 100% in favor of stopping illegal immigration and deporting those that are caught.

What irks me is when I see people simply acting on xenophobic motives and throwing around a lot of BS that they attribute to illegals as if they were sick, stupid, and leeches. They are breaking immigration laws, that's all you need to justify their deportation. But, quite frankly, a lot of the comments made regarding illegals is just scaremongering and lying. Or they are observations made against the illegals that could also be leveled against groups of American citizens, it's just that the American citizens are less visible. And that kind of hate-mongering bugs the hell out of me.

TexasConspiracyNut: They come here and get free medical care by the hundreds of thousands and it is payed for by my local taxes.

I suspect that's a load of dung. You're saying there are hundreds of thousands of illegals that are actively getting free medical care in Houston? Can I see some links to back that up?

BTW--In Mexico, medical care is free for Mexican workers.

Originally posted by Kaiser617
I bet that each one of your ancestors came from a European country so what gives you the right to tell people that they cant come into the land that gave your desecndants a chance to start over and to overcome their difficulties.

My ancestors came here in 1632. That aside, the issue isn't immigrants - but ILLEGAL immigrants. There IS a BIG difference. Follow the rules and the welcome mat is put out - sneak into the house and the reception is quite different.

If you had any facts upon which to base your opinions I'd be impressed.

As it is, I'm not.

The Mexican Government has a Minister of Citizens Living Abroad (code for the US). This is a top level position in the Fox Administration.

The only mission of this ministry is to assist Mexican Nationals living in the United States

"The White Race is dying! WE ARE THE FUTURE"
Art Torres, Hispanic & Chairman of the California Democratic Party

That's a direct quote folks - and I can't find anything more racist anywhere.

Turn your opinions to www.aztlan.net...

Hate? Racism? Read it for yourselves. And wake up.

www.azconservative.org...

Read through the above link and archives - all factual and all documented facts.

It hurts me that people of this country has forgotten that our humble beginings were of inmigrants, that everybody in this country is of inmigrant decendants must of them were also criminals excaping executions on their countries of origin I blame the education systems that have failed on educating this country of historical facts. This country was not even ours when the first inmigrant came to its shores.

Originally posted by letxa2000

TexasConspiracyNut: They come here and get free medical care by the hundreds of thousands and it is payed for by my local taxes.

I suspect that's a load of dung. You're saying there are hundreds of thousands of illegals that are actively getting free medical care in Houston? Can I see some links to back that up?

BTW--In Mexico, medical care is free for Mexican workers.

I'm running a little low on ISP time. I'm on the 150 hour plan. I'll get back with this when I get more time. I'm going to unlimited access on the 20th. It cost one dollar an hour over the 150.

Perhaps The Border Guy or someone else will have the time to look up a link for you proving my point.

It is true. The Hospital system is ran by the County of Harris. It includes Houston, Pasadena, and many other small cities around Houston and some unincorperated areas. The land area is quite large. There are about five million total county residents. There are also hundreds of thousands of illegals here.

The INS (what's the new name?) doesn't deport illegals in the county if they are not a criminals. The city police don't get involved because they don't want the illegal population to be afraid to call in case they need the police.

I agree with you that it would sound like a load of dung to someone who is not a resident here. It's one of those things you really have to see the believe. I can take you to parts of town that is nothing but illegal Mexicans mostly for miles. There are at least a quarter million of them here and for the most part the only way they get care is through the hospital district and by overcrowding the emergency rooms so it takes everyone 8 or 10 hours just to get seen. I guess they figure why pay for medical care when they didn't have to at home?

well this is certainly a complicated subject, but i have heard no one expressign the point of view of the green industries. landscaping and lawn maintenance, plant growers, fisheries in south central texas(althought not a green industry), numerous others. if you were to ask the owners of such companies the cheap labor that works hard for these low wages are the only way that they are able to stay in business. if they want to work for these wages then they should be allowed to.

i am not denying that there problems, but migrant workers are a valuable necessity in many businesses. we are talking about productivity and bankruptcy!

many communities have suffered horrendously due the the tightening of the texas mexican border on the mexican side after 9-11. there are entire communities that survived almost entirely on american tourist paying for boat rides to the other side at non- official crossing points. well this was just a really cool texas/ mexico experience that is no longer possible, because serious legal consequences could befall the texan that tried what he had done for so many years without event.

don't get me wrong i understand why this happened and am in agreeance with strengthening the security of our homeland for the safety of my family and friends at the cost of and extinct vacation event.

Sure they can come in to the USA to find work.. Once they learn English and go through immigration legally!

Just like any other nation, there are rules regarding immigration here in the U.S.A. Follow them or don't be suprised if you get shot up by a citizen militiaman down on that southern border.

It's not my job to take care of illegal aliens, legal aliens yes I will help because they respect the laws of the country and ultimately respected the citzens.

Border Guy: The Mexican Government has a Minister of Citizens Living Abroad (code for the US). This is a top level position in the Fox Administration. The only mission of this ministry is to assist Mexican Nationals living in the United States

That ministry was setup after Fox's election in 2000 and it was a political move to win future votes. They are especially interested in setting up a system whereby Mexicans in the U.S. can vote in Mexican elections, the thought being that if the PAN party (to which Fox belongs) sets up such a system they will be able to score votes in the next election from Mexicans living aborad. There is very little Mexico can do to interfere with internal affairs of the U.S. and they know it. They're just looking for votes for future Mexican elections, that is all.

Turn your opinions to www.aztlan.net... Hate? Racism? Read it for yourselves. And wake up.

See my previous message. No-one in Mexico even knows about the racist idiots of Aztlan. It's a fringe movement in the United States, much like the KKK. Unless you plan on judging the white race by the actions and declarations of the KKK I don't see why you should hold the views of Aztlan against Mexicans in general.

The Truth is out there somewhere ...

Keep on looking, it seems you haven't found it yet.

TexasConspiracyNut: agree with you that it would sound like a load of dung to someone who is not a resident here.

Let's put it this way... I'm 100% sure that hundreds of thousands of illegals didn't move to Houston in search of free health care. They went there in search of a better life and, well, yes, they do get sick and need medical care from time to time. But you'll find that most of them are paying income taxes under false SSNs and never asking for a refund which is extra money in the federal coffers--many actually have income tax withheld at 35% with no chance for refund. They're paying sales tax just like everyone else and if they have property they're paying property tax too. If they have a car, they're paying license & registration just like everyone else. So I'm not sure where you conclude they are looking for "free" anything.

Again, I'll stress that I agree that illegal immigration is wrong, should be stopped, and illegal immigrants should be deported for the simple reason that they are violating immigration laws which exist for a reason. But that's it... Attributing a laundry list of evils to illegal immigrants is just racist and hateful BS. And it's extremely obvious who has a real understanding of the issues by looking at their arguments. As soon as people start accusing illegals of somehow being "sicker" or more "diseased" than Americans, or whipping out links to Aztlan as a reason to be firm on immigration you know it's based on hate, fear, and misunderstanding and not anything rational.

Reality is much less alarming than the fiction some people create.