H.R.45

What do we know about kids and gun accidents and suicides?
When researchers studied the 30,000 accidental gun deaths of Americans of all ages that occurred between 1979-1997, they found that preschoolers aged 0-4 were 17 times more likely to die from a gun accident in the 4 states with the most guns versus the 4 states with the least guns. Likewise, school kids aged 5-14 were over 13 times more at risk of accidental firearm death in the states with high gun ownership rates. The findings indicate that gun availability is associated with accidental death by shooting [4].

Guns are bad. There is absolutely no reason to own one.

Originally posted by Beaux

I don't know about their crime statistics but crimes involving the use of guns in the U.K. has fallen over recent years.

Sure it has, they just go to the cutlery section now.
Knife crime in UK
knife crime in UK

People that want to kill will always find a way.



BAN CUTLERY IMMEDIATELY!

[edit on 26-1-2009 by hotrodturbo7]

reply to post by 420prajna


You need a link to post "facts"

2nd line

All of my firearms are "off the record". Keep in ming - that doesn't mean that they're illegal.

If you think I'll volunteer any information that could one day enable them to disarm me, you're crazy. What they don't know, won't hurt them. And in this case you can take that saying in every sense of the words.

reply to post by n1zzzn



Exactly. Moving to a "better neighborhood" or "better country" may increase the chance of victimization?

A possibility that bears consideration.

reply to post by hotrodturbo7


[url=http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm]

Satisfied? I dont care, if you want to have a gun lying around your house go for it

Originally posted by Beaux

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
Do you think that felons are buying guns legally?

I agree, Darryl. But where are they getting them? Aren't most of them stolen from legitimate gun owners? Logic would dictate that if there were fewer owned, fewer would be stolen.

Briton has had a 40+% increase in crime since they outlawed firearms.

I don't know about their crime statistics but crimes involving the use of guns in the U.K. has fallen over recent years.

I believe that most of these guns are bought from black market sources but that is only an opinion.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason the gun related crime rate has fallen and at the same time crime has risen is because that a lot of people are prosecuted for defending themselves? If the criminal knows you do not have the means to defend yourself, a knife would suffice wouldn't it, none the less dead is dead and unprotected is unprotected. It only stands to reason that gun related crime would fall because self defense is quite often prosecuted via way of declaring excessive force and prosecuting the person defending themselves. Who is to say what force is excessive? If someone is trying to kill you, I don't care if their using a baseball bat, the best defense is to have the capacity to kill them in your own defense. A lot of people get prosecuted because they shoot someone who came at them with a knife or some other weapon. The governments position is excessive force was used, hey I am sorry I didn't have a knife with me so what was I suppose to do, hold out my wrists?

reply to post by 420prajna



I will dig through these sources and digest info, but suffice to say as I stated to Beaux, I never leave guns lying around. If you do you are asking for it.

reply to post by 420prajna


That is the responsibility of the parents, pure and simple.

Just remember, as long as people are free there will be always be choices that are made that will result in the loss or degredation of life.

If you take everything away that can keep people from making poor choices you just made them locked up in a soft walled room chained to a bed for the rest of their life where they are completely immobile.

Why is "owning a gun" equal to "civil right and freedom" to you americans? Its like cowboy land over there...

Do you feel safer or more free to be able to say "yall come to mah houz' and I'll put a cap in yo a$$, btch!"...

or is one of those things "if this turns into a civil war I want my gun to protect myself"...

because the first one is stupid... you DONT need a gun. Here in europe less than 5% of the population use, own or have a license to guns. We dont need it... and we dont feel ourselves less free for that. Actually we're free of pretty much 90% of homicidal maniacs getting access to guns and shooting high-schools, hospitals, restaurants, etc. Just to give you and example I am a part of those 5% who "own" a gun... its not really mine, it was my grandfather's, its not loaded, I dont own any ammo... and to be honest, I dont even know where the gun is... somewhere in my house thats for sure, come to think about it I dont see it for 15 years - I do have a special thing for my swords though..

in the second case, if something happens ok, we'll get guns... but... in a civil war situation the gun doesnt really need to be legal so... if we need it, we'll get it.

I dont understand the thing in your cowboy minds that says you're not free unless you own a gun and thats part of your civil rights and yadda yadda when all europe has no access to guns (not your easy access anyway) and we think its fine... cause either way, if we really need one we get one... its not like we use guns for "legal" things anyway, so it doesnt really have to be a "legal" weapon

But do explain to me that obsession with guns and how guns represent your freedom as human beings... its like you need something as a gun to run your normal " cowboy-like john wayne" / "bruce willy's yipeeka-yay mf" everyday...

One other thing on guns... if you had some real control over who owns a gun and you didnt sell all the kinds of weapons to everyone, maybe... just maybe... you wouldnt have so many of those "Columbine" events.

reply to post by hotrodturbo7


Ok fair enough...I wonder, I cant find any reliable stats out there about where firearms were successfully used in self defense. Personally I would rather someone steal my TV or my car than killing them and having that on my concious the rest of my life...

reply to post by 420prajna


No one can control bad parenting. Maybe we should take all the guns away and force children everywhere to always where a helmet and pading so they don't fall and get hurt.
Last time I checked, we have a whole batch of kids raised this way and they come out of school with a "Entitlement" problem. Which is another socialist view......

reply to post by MilitieTempliSalmo


Your arguments are logical, it really isn't logical to have a gun...us Americans do have masculinity issued that we compensate for with the tough guy or 'cowboy' complex.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by 420prajna]

Ask and ye shall receive

Reference from pulpless
ATS Self Defense
2603098

Gun defenses since January 1, 2008.
Date and Time Now: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:04:42 PM

[edit on 26-1-2009 by n1zzzn]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by n1zzzn]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by n1zzzn]

reply to post by j2000


I dont think protecting children from accidents instills a sense of entitlement...buying them brand new SUVs for their sixteenth birthday does though.

Originally posted by 420prajna
Personally I would rather someone steal my TV or my car than killing them and having that on my concious the rest of my life...

People that break into your home are not always looking to steal your TV. One of them might be looking to steal the virginity of your 8 year old daughter.

"I'll beat them down if they try that."

OK< maybe it's not one of them, but five of them that come to take your Mom's life?


[edit on 1/26/09 by NoPhobos]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by 420prajna
reply to post by hotrodturbo7

 

Ok fair enough...I wonder, I cant find any reliable stats out there about where firearms were successfully used in self defense. Personally I would rather someone steal my TV or my car than killing them and having that on my concious the rest of my life...

Try this thread. I'm sure some of the links will prove "reliable".

self defense thread

reply to post by j2000


Whats recently happened in Great Britain is a very good resource for us to learn from though.

Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
reply to post by Beaux

 

The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. - George Washington

Go on and deny the intent Beaux. The Bill of Rights grants nothing since the rights are preexisting. Rights cannot be separated from us, they are ours. Rights are like earlobes, they come with the package. Sell your socialist propaganda at the nearest Communist party headquarters.

Rights can and have been revoked. Ask a convict. They are more like hats then earlobes.

Just because someone disagrees with you hardly makes them a socialist or Communist which are actually two totally different things. Anytime somebody uses both in a sentence, they typically know little about either. I'm not "selling anything" but simply offering a difference of opinion. Neither one of us has the answers as shown by multiple posts in this thread.

Washington led a country that had 2.5M citizens that faced a wilderness of the unknown and a British monarchy intent on keeping us a colony. We now have over 300M people, the finest military in the world and the British are our closest allies. Do you honestly think Washington would feel the same way?

But since we are quoting the Father of our country, lets toss a few more out there.

Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government.

The basis of our political system is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government.
-George Washington

"Alter their constitutions"? More a hat than an earlobe to GW too, it seems.