OMG - What is this? - Dirty Energy Light Bulbs?

reply to post by Hobbymat




heat from incandescent bulbs is inefficient.

I wouldn't want to raise the level of concern but CFL's (compact flourescent lamps) are just that IE flourescent lamps. We've had flourescent lamps widely used since the middle of the last century and they all work on the same principle which is UV radiation produced in a mercury vapour filled tube energised to a plasma state by an electrical discharge - the UV causes a toxic powder coating on the inside of the tube to flouresce at a visible wavelength in a variety of colours (mostly variations of white but others are possible).

What I'm getting at is those long tubes you see everywhere (2', 4', 5' long) are all filled with mercury vapour and coated with toxic substances (the same compounds as CFLs) so those risks posed by CFLs have been with us for 50-odd years. A 'blacklight' tube is simply a special version with a coating that allows the UV to escape (certain 'safer' wavelengths of UV that is). I use a specialist type of tube that has no phosphor coating at all and that one is what they call a 'germicidal' tube which allows extremely dangerous shorter wavelength UV to escape (2537 Angstrom from memory) - I use it for erasing UVEPROMs (with a solid cover to protect my eyes). They also are used in hairdresser's sterilising cabinets as that UV fries bacteria too.

Basically, the risks you're worried about have been there longer than a lot of members here have been alive. The only difference I can think of is the electronics in the CFL bases which obviates the need for a starter and ballast. That's what produces the annoying whining sound you only hear when trying to get to sleep (it's the windings in in HF transformer oscillating at the running frequency of the switch mode power supply). If there's an increased risk compared to normal flouro tubes, I put it down to the electrolytic capacitor in them which, in cheaper types, has an alarming habit of exploding with sufficient force to eject the tube itself which will shatter if it hits something solid. Never ever saw a 4' tube explode spontaneously but I've had at least half a dozen CFLs do exactly that (they were all obscure no-name brand types and were extremely cheap so I never go for those any more and I've had no problems with more expensive 'long-life' type from recognised manufacturers). Also avoid the '6400K colour temp' types if you're worried about UV - they're the ones with the intense bluish white output that gives you a headache in a matter of minutes (well they have that affect on me, I hate them).

And just to be complete - those 50W 'downlights' that became very popular (halogen lamps) also produce an alarming level of UV due to the very high filament temperature. Always get the ones that are covered with a UV filter if you're using them in desk lamps or spending a lot of time directly under them at a short distance

I do want to move toward LED lighting. The things you can do with LEDs are pretty cool. Low energy, low heat.

True these things should be filtered for those who are sensitive. It has been known for a while that flourescent lighting doesn't "feel" as good as normal lighting.

But, I don't know of anything personally damaging coming from these bulbs as far as I am concerned. The ones I put in sure didn't last the length of time they should have, though. Cheaply made brand, I guess.

This is like the peanut allergy thing. Not all people seem to be affected negatively by peanuts.

And I don't have a real problem with the radiation from the sun, as far as I can tell. Some people are more sensitive to it though.

I just wish the price would come down on LED technology, so more people could use that.

LED is very efficient, they last a long time. And they are making products now that perform close to traditional lighting.

Troy

[edit on 26-1-2009 by cybertroy]

I have had 3 sinus infections ( one at present ) in the last few months but not 1 before that.

Here in N.Z. they started giving them out about the same time. I wonder if the emissions can srew with maybe the heat buildup in your head and hence allow bacteria to build up. ?

Just a thought.

reply to post by cybertroy


LEDs do seem to meet the criteria from an efficiency point of view but if you look into the principle of operation for a white LED you'll find similar UV problems. White LEDs actually use exactly the same principle (generally) as CFLs to achieve white light IE a high power blue LED engineered to produce intense UV output is coated with a phosphor to produce the white light. At least they get around the mercury vapour problem and achieve super efficiency with incredibly long lifetimes. The problem is the cost at present.

It's a bit difficult to get away from radiation, especially since that big light bulb in the sky puts out so much. I guess it is something that will have to be worked around somehow, for those who are sensitive.

OLEDs are cool as it gets.

www.youtube.com...

How about light emitting fabrics? Crazy!

www.youtube.com...

Troy



[edit on 26-1-2009 by cybertroy]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by cybertroy]

The light bulbs have mercury in them. If you accidently bust them you can never stay in that room anymore you will need to call the hazard cleanup service. Its very dangerous mercury and could be a problem for health.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I claim shenanigans..... can you say psychosomatic? this is all in these poor poor sick people's mind.....and on the slim chance its not....I say natural selection, and survival of the fittest...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, in this case the needs of the earth greatly outweigh the needs of these genetically weak few.....I'm sure there are some people in super super poor African villages that would have adverse reactions to regular lightbulbs or clean air...does that mean we should not give these villages lightbulbs and clean air?...no, the few who are adversely affecting need to for lack of a better phrase, suck it up....sorry guys mommy and daddy prolly shouldn't have raised you under those power lines or smoked cigarettes during pregnancy and fed you all that crystal Pepsi when you were growing up......or forced you to sleep in the microwave, next to the stack of old malfunctioning x-ray machines....

Don’t get those junk light bulbs, any of them. Why when they do go out, They never go out all the way out. These cause an electrical short in the bulb itself and may not trip your breaker. ( My electrical system is new ) It does some strange things in the circuit itself back to the panel. Some insulation melted on my conductors in the wall.

It was hard pinning this down. I Found out it was the bulb itself after tracing the entire circuit. I pulled the lamp off the circuit plugged it in another outlet . The lamp cord was super hot, that is what gave me the clue. Not to mention the bulb still worked normal, somewhat. These bulbs could burn down your house , and they have. Several homes burned to the ground last year because of these blubs, maybe more. I still read a lot of industry electrical news. This is how I found out about them . I also submitted my meter reading to the NEC board, and Consumer protection. I used to be an electrician before the military and still hold my license to do some work now and then on the side. So take it from Pro. Don’t put these in your house. The bulbs made in china are really bad and were found to have burned down 3 of the homes I mentioned above. Bought from that big orange store. Also these bulbs are known to effect hearing aids, they will mess them up if you wear them near these bulbs.

This junk almost burned down my home too. Melted the 12/2 conductors in the wall. I shut down the circuit when I smelled smoke, and traced the problem to this crap bulb. Lucky my walls were open for the remodel. no damage to the home just the conductors. Pulled the cable re-did the run. good as new. Never again will I buy any type of bulbs like these.

I think the drop in LED replacement bulbs now going on the market will end up killing the CF light system because it is not toxic and is even more efficient now in lumens per watts than CF lamp units. No mercury and no strong RF frequencies put off by LED panels and less heat.

I have started slowly replacing all of my energy efficient CF bulbs with LED drop in replacements. The light is great for reading or what ever kind of work you are doing. Speaking of work those big LED work lights have broken the price floor and are down to $20 at Harbor Freight and those include a NiMH battery and both 120v AC and 12v DC charging systems.

I just think the argument against CF replacements is not going to last long with the advent of even more efficient and green LED lamp modules coming out. They save so much in energy and bulb replacement costs that they have a 14 to 16 month pay back period at 12 cents per kWh for the large size replacement lamps for Sodium Vapor or HID industrial lighting systems.

These white LED lamp modules are out to replace everything including the old bulb and the CF and Sodium Vapor and HID lamps. LEDs might wipe them all out and dominate the entire field in the end at the current rate of conversion. Just about all stop signs are now LED up from almost none 10 years ago. LED is even challenging CF and Neon on the strip lighting for signs market with strings of very small and bright surface mount LED modules used for back lighting high efficiency phosphorescent plastic strips that look just like NEON but are injection molded at low temperatures and associated lower unit costs.

All and all if you examine the evidence I think it is clear that the Light Emitting Diode will become the dominant light source in our near future replacing all other types in use today. CF lamp makers and old fashion bulb makers will go the way of the buggy whip makers and the dodo bird.

[edit on 1/26/2009 by UFOTECH]

reply to post by Mynaeris


Take them out of your home. I measured the frequency put out these on my $3500 fluke meter . The readings are strange, not to mention very high a light bulb. Most of these bulb are messed up. They effect hearing aids, lot's of interference. I know I wear hearing aids now. Plasma TV's LCD TV’s ,wireless devices, Thermostats, and lots more items in your home. I have about 27 years as an electrical engineer and electrician experience. Believe when I say take them out of your home. I wired a new home last year and found these to be the problem . After the owners moved in they installed one in every room. Then called me back. I took them out. Problem solved. not to mention the owner also complained of headaches. Never followed up on that though. You’re on to something hear though . His new home is ok now that I removed those bulbs.

SJE98 those CFL's can not make house wiring get that hot, maybe the parts inside though. It takes over 15A at 115Vac to get standard AC cord to get hot enough to melt insulation, did you use a dummy fuse (dead short) or something? Fuses in the fuse box are rated so that never happens.

If everything was to code, that kind of thing would never happen.

On topic OLED's and superbright Luxeon LED's should cost lots less, but its new and shiny so they will milk it for all its worth, but its the way to go.

Most large LCD monitors have long fluorescent lamps in them that also contain mercury as well FYI.

reply to post by UFOTECH


LED is the way to go. if you can afford it. I have LED fixtures in my home. thought I would try them out. They are nice . not to mention saves me big buks on this big house that almost burned down from thoes crap bulbs.
also used for under counter lighting. My wife is like wow ! thoes are cool. now do the living room. bedrooms diining room. etc..

reply to post by XL5



Wanta bet. ! I know this for a fact. I showed these temp and frequency reading to the AHJ. Inspector in charge. he was freaked too. this was my house. and was also being inspected by the electrical inspector. he was also wondering how the conductor melted. yes my house is way above code. he even check my work twice. it was the bulb. 27 years in electrical and the military. It was the bulb.


[edit on 26-1-2009 by SJE98]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by SJE98]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by SJE98]

I don't get it.I have been using them forever and they have never have given me or my family any problems.
I don't even know anyone who has ever said of any problems.
This is the first im hearing about it.
Could it be because these people have a rare skin disorder?
I know the one woman in that video had lupus.That can always cause problems with normally harmless things.
Could it be the people who make the covers for them, wanting people to only buy the non swirly covered ones?So they sell more covers?

yup, I want to bet. We have fuses so that our wires do not melt and if wires DID melt, your wiring was not to code or you used a 25+Amp fuse on wire rated for 15Amp. A 1500Watt load will run on wire rated for 15Amp and the wires will feel very slightly warm, same with a 1700W load. A 1750W load will blow the 15Amp 115V fuse and the wire will be warm but not over 80deg C. The glass of the CFL should have melted before the wire did, these CFL's use 15-20 watts, 1700W should melt the traces/wires in the lamps base or the glass tube before anything else.

What frequency did those CFL's produce?

reply to post by SJE98


XL5 had a valid point there which you'd have to be aware of with your stated experience. The symptoms you described require 2 separate faults, an overload in the lamp itself + a defect in the circuit protection preventing the fuse/circuit breaker keeping the current below the maximum rating of the wiring. Could also be a wiring defect (reduction in csa of one or more conductors for whatever reason).

I agree with the claims of interference they generate. Had all sorts of problems here with IR remote controls for TV/VCR etc after installing one of these lamps and it turned out to be the lamp generating infrared pulses at a supersonic frequency which confused the IR receivers (jamming if you like). I ended up building an IR detector to take samples of the hash the lamp was radiating - it doesn't happen with incandescent globes so I'll have to keep a supply of the old globes for that 1 location that can shine directly into the entertainment system IR receivers.

They can also generate all sorts of parasitic harmonics at frequencies right into the RF ranges and note that these are the only such equipment I've seen (SMPS) that has absolutely no RF shielding which I'd consider to be against US FCC regulations at the very least. You know that clause about not generating appreciable external interference and, at the same time, not being affected by incoming interference (not the exact wording but I'm certain you've seen it a few times).

These bulbs have also a mercury element that isn't talked about. So assuming that they didn't break and you didn't ingest any of this as it explodes. What considerations has there been with the safe disposal of these mercury carriers? Well, of course there hasn't been any mercury specific reference because that would then alert people to their potential lethal element.

Yet another, albeit small part of the GW-'Lets save the earth' scam that we are dragged into.

reply to post by RFBurns


And what kind of result would be gained were the test to be made on a standard lightbulb? Oh yeah, that's right, NO radiation from ANY distance.

As a European I'm disgusted by the issue of these bulbs because they are being FORCED upon us, and the possible detrimental health aspects far outweigh any to be found with normal lightbulbs. Even taking into account that (so far) just a few people are reporting physical effects after using bulbs, that few is MANY more than ever reported reactions to standard bulbs.

It astounds me that in Europe we live in a society seemingly obsessed by Health and Safety regulations, often to the most pedantically stupid degree, but the government is forcing these toxic bulbs onto us. Seems double standards are fine in certain cases.

Originally posted by Pilgrum

XL5 had a valid point there which you'd have to be aware of with your stated experience. The symptoms you described require 2 separate faults, an overload in the lamp itself + a defect in the circuit protection

at 50 or 60Hz i'd agree withou you, high frequencies might still fail to trigger the fuze. it's really the only explanation.

reactive power is a curious thing because it won't do squat at the terminals and still melt your cables if totally out of whack. why do you think people are trying to sell you 'power factor corrected' power supplies? why are utility companies going to great lengths to keep lambda close to 1? because the alternative is the equivalent of congestion.

Originally posted by ANNED

Never use a vacuum cleaner to remove pieces as this will fill the air with poisons that go through the machine and into the air. (To remove from carpet they suggest using wide tape - maybe the same duck tape they wanted us to seal off our doors in-case of a terrorist attack?)

Any vacuum with a HEPA filter can be used to vacuum up the mercury safely.

mercury is not particulate, it's vapor and will pass through any such filter just like air.

[edit on 2009.1.26 by Long Lance]