Dutch court orders anti-Islamic lawmaker Geert Wilders prosecuted on hate speech charge

Dutch court orders anti-Islamic lawmaker Geert Wilders prosecuted on hate speech charge

www.newsday.com

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — A right-wing lawmaker should be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred with anti-Islamic statements that include calling the Quran a "fascist book," a Dutch court ruled Wednesday.

Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders made headlines around the world in March 2008 with his film "Fitna," which juxtaposed Quranic verses against a background of violent film clips and images of terrorism by Islamic radicals.

In 2007, Wilders called for a ban on the Quran "the same way we ban 'Mein Kampf.'" He said both Adolf Hitler's work and the Muslim holy book contain passages that contradict Western values.

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This is a scary hate speech case that could set a new standard for the freedom of speech in the netherlands.
I don't agree with any of the points the man stands for but i do respect that he can say the things he does because i respect his freedom of speech.

I dont think he realy broke any dutch freedom of speech related laws from hat i have seen and heard of this man.
He did quite some heavy statements over the time he is in public office, for example comparing the koran with mein kampf written by adolf hitler and some more simular statements.

But as far as i can see there is not much difference between what this man says and the average discussions i see around on internet forums and publications.
If this prosecution is sucsesfull that it could prove to be a serious blow to freedom of speech in the netherlands.


www.newsday.com
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reply to post by jaamaan


It's certainly a dark day for freedom of speech in the Netherlands.

As you say, I don't agree with Wilder's statements. However, again as you say, he's in his right to voice his view - which does not necessarily equate to the incitement of hatred.

IMO it's not unreasonable to conclude that many countries have been heading in this direction for quite some time.

Will it come to the day where we're all prevented - by law - from registering any disapproval or judgement of a belief system, without it being deemed as encouraging hate? IMHO, I think that it's closing in on the horizon.

Not to stir the pot in any way, but it would certainly be interesting to see if voicing similar opinions about another religion would result in comparable outcomes.

[edit on 21/1/09 by lizziejayne]

Funny how those "hate speech" laws are never applied to critics of Christianity.

For the record, I disagree with all those "hate speech" laws. It's just interesting that they selectively enforce it.

Originally posted by lizziejayne
Will it come to the day where we're all prevented - by law - from registering any disapproval or judgement of a belief system, without it being deemed as encouraging hate?

IMHO, I think that it's closing in on the horizon.

Not to stir the pot in any way, but it would certainly be interesting to see if voicing similar opinions about another religion would result in comparable outcomes.

[edit on 21/1/09 by lizziejayne]

It sure looks that any one with a strong "disapproval or judgement of a belief system" can be called an extremist and trailed if this keeps moving in the direction that we are heading for.

In the netherlands there are many people that dropped their cristian religion in the last generations, in this process there have been many critial voices against the cristian fate.
When i grew up it was pretty normal to be very critical of the cristian religion without a problem.

In my opinion we should be able to be critical about anything as long as we dont call for murder etc etc.

Yeah its insane, you want to hear something else.
Geert Wilders was put into a booklet send across primary schools in the Netherlands, where he was projected as extremely rightwinged and dangerous. So the little kids in school are brought up with this idea.

On a sidenote, Wilders is just a shouter. He doesn't have any solid ideas, though it's always fun to hear him speak in our 2nd Chamber.

The multicultural 'experiment' here in Holland has failed, but our left wing media is still trying to perpetuate it .

Same as in Britain.

And frankly I can see many similarities, the call for genoide of anyone, whether its dependant on race or belief, is obviously wrong, and any book (Torah included, Christians) that incorporates it is obviously wrong.

And, I wish they'd get this: YOU CAN'T SCREAM "RACISM" WHEN SOMEONE IS CRITICISING RELIGION, **snip**

ADMIN NOTE: removed unneccesary adjective.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Crakeur]

Originally posted by mortje
Yeah its insane, you want to hear something else.
Geert Wilders was put into a booklet send across primary schools in the Netherlands, where he was projected as extremely rightwinged and dangerous. So the little kids in school are brought up with this idea.

On a sidenote, Wilders is just a shouter. He doesn't have any solid ideas, though it's always fun to hear him speak in our 2nd Chamber.

The multicultural 'experiment' here in Holland has failed, but our left wing media is still trying to perpetuate it

.

That booklet story is pretty disturbing i have to say, got any link for that ?

Personaly i dont think the "multicultural experiment", as you call it, has failed at all, in my dayly live i see many positive things comming from living in a multi cultural country.
But i gues that is the topic that many people, including Wilders, are talking about today.
There can be different opinions on these topics, but i dont think trying to stop people voicing their opinions is going to help a single bit.

reply to post by jaamaan


to be honest i didnt really pay notice to what the Nutter says
he took paragraphs from the Quran and did what most fanatics do, distort them to his political agenda.

i have seen people do it on ATS.

all this does is legitimise his actions and make him more of a martyr to his followers. and give him more air time.

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by jaamaan

 

to be honest i didnt really pay notice to what the Nutter says
he took paragraphs from the Quran and did what most fanatics do, distort them to his political agenda.

i have seen people do it on ATS.

all this does is legitimise his actions and make him more of a martyr to his followers. and give him more air time.

Indeed, but these passages are still actually in the Quran, are they not?

The Muslims aren't the only ones guilty - all the Abrahamic religions are just as bad, and have been used to justify the worst kinds of atrocities.

They all need banning. Religious talk in generally needs banning. Believe in your invisible friend if you like, but don't freaking tell us about it. Weirdo.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

The Muslims aren't the only ones guilty - all the Abrahamic religions are just as bad, and have been used to justify the worst kinds of atrocities.

They all need banning. Religious talk in generally needs banning. Believe in your invisible friend if you like, but don't freaking tell us about it. Weirdo.

I think that is the other side of the debate, ban all religious talk, personaly i find that that goes way over the top.
Every one can believe what ever they want, Wilders, Muslims and all others as long as they dont call for the murder of other groups of people etc.
I know several Jews, Muslims, Cristians and Buddhists and i can live with them side by side with ease and pesonaly find that it enriches my life learning from other walks of life.
But i find it importand that we can voice critical opinions about any of them.

The multicultural experiment failed along time ago in my country, in reality, but the liberal loonies still think they know better then history, so it has become forcibly applied, be tolerant or go to jail, if your white and proud of your nations heritage you are discriminated against in law and media
Muslims can preach as much hate as they like, muslim criminals and rapists get shipped back to their country of origin in the quiet of night
While the white racist bigot nazies stories are pumped out by the media every waking hour
Our equal opportunity commission has even brought in laws to discriminate against white males, to benefit religious and cultural minorities
They call it “positive” discrimination

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


Passages are there but in full context arent as bad as they are made out to be,
thats the main issues i have had.
when people post passages they seem to always take 3 lines out 7 and say
here you go point proven.

reply to post by jaamaan


everyone has their right to critasize others and what they want
but they should always expect what comes with it when they start fabricating things to push their agenda

[edit on 22-1-2009 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

 

Passages are there but in full context arent as bad as they are made out to be,
thats the main issues i have had.
when people post passages they seem to always take 3 lines out 7 and say
here you go point proven.

I'd be very interested to know in what context you find genocide justifiable...those other 4 lines must be very good.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


i would like to know where it justifies genocide, and where you got that conclusion

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

 

i would like to know where it justifies genocide, and where you got that conclusion

I've seen passages quoted that run to the effect of "kill the unbeliever", but I'm not in a position to dig them up, atm, and I'll have probably forgotten about this by the time i get home from work.

The Quran isn't alone in this, the OT does it plenty, too.

Well said bodrul.

Anyway, my take on this is that the man is a nasty piece of work and needs to be reigned in one way or another - if that means bringing him up on a hate speech charge then good. I don't see the objectors defending the rights of extreme Muslim clerics being prosecuted under the same laws. Seems to me that the Islamophobes want to have their cake and eat it too.

reply to post by Goathief


agreed

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


IN ATS we back up what we say
now i ask again where in the Quran does it advocate genocide,
i would like to see the passage.

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

 

IN ATS we back up what we say
now i ask again where in the Quran does it advocate genocide,
i would like to see the passage.

Perhaps you should try speaking for yourself, rather than everyone else?

I have told you, I don't have time to do that now. Remind me next time we cross swords, and I'll be happy to. I'm sure you know the verses I refer to though, I suspect you've encountered them before.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


no i havent
hence why i asked you where you got that assumption
also its is a common curtesy to backup your claims
ask anyone on ats

[edit on 22-1-2009 by bodrul]