Confessions of a Spiritual Anarchist.

Originally posted by badmedia
Interesting. It's "pride in disconnecting their own beliefs" when others do it, but when you accept "dogmas" of your faith it is not that.

Such hypocrisy.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by badmedia]

There's the fundamental difference badmedia, which I do make clear in the above post - it is my faith in so far as I belong to it, not my faith by my own invention. It is the faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Universal Church.

It's the faith of the "Our" of the Our Father. The faith of the institution established by Christ in the Apostles and persisting in uninterupted continuity since that time in the Spirit.

Originally posted by Supercertari
There's the fundamental difference badmedia, which I do make clear in the above post - it is my faith in so far as I belong to it, not my faith by my own invention. It is the faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Universal Church.

It's the faith of the "Our" of the Our Father. The faith of the institution established by Christ in the Apostles and persisting in uninterupted continuity since that time in the Spirit.

Of course, as you lack a personal relationship with the father, you deny it in others. If it doesn't go along with your own beliefs, then it is by default wrong, just as you laid out in your previous post. If it doesn't go along with your beliefs, then that person must have just "made it up" by their "own invention". Because it is obviously your view that the father is unable to directly speak and show people things.

You deny in others what you lack. You don't know the father, that much is plain. Because if you did know the father, then you wouldn't need a middle man. If you did know the father, you would be full of understanding and wisdom, not dogmas you accepted because some man told you so.

And when someone has the "balls" to say they know the father and speak of the things the father says, you accuse them of pride and such. Because it appears that in your opinion, if you didn't get it from the church, or someone who men think is great(warned against) then it's just their pride and own invention.

But what it comes down to is you want me to take the word of men/church over the word of the father that is within.

Proverbs 8

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

Pretty sure that says wisdom and knowledge. Pretty sure that says these things are plain to him that understands, and right to those who find knowledge. I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about accepting men, accept dogma or serving a master other than the Lord.

You can try to hide your own praise by putting it on the church you follow, but for those with understanding, it is blatantly obvious what you do.

I AM.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by badmedia]

Well thanks for that nice little attack there badmedia. I converse with the Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit on a regular basis, accompanied by the companionships of the Church in all times, my brohters and sisters here on earth and those who already enjoy the delights of heaven, Our Blessed Mother especially.

I also have the assurance that what may be the meanderings of my small mind encumbered by concupiscence has the checks and balances of Christ's Church so I do not stray away from the God in whose image I am made toward a god made in my own image.

See, round here I am one of the rebels, an anarchist denying the tyranny of the subjective.

I am very proud of the faith to which I am graced to belong and humbled to be thus able to keep company with such spiritual giants and accept the guidance of Wisdom manifest in them through the ages. I may lack wisdom myself but I "understand wisdom" when I see it. When dealing with the infinite splendours of God it's really the only "prudent" course of action rather than imagining the "witty inventions" of my own are Truth.

reply to post by Supercertari


All I ever hear from you are hollow words. Dead and hollow words. You can praise the church and be proud of the church and call yourself "humble" all you want, but of course it's still men you praise, it's still the physical your praise, and your master is not the father.

The father is within. Therefore any relationship from the father would in fact appear to be "made up" by the person, or "as his own". It would appear to be exactly what you put down. And again, it's only because you lack such a relationship that you would say such things.

You enter not, and you do not allow others to enter either. You deny it in others, just as Jesus says you will.

You wouldn't recognize Jesus anymore than the people of that time did. Because the moment he didn't push your little church forward, you would deny him just as you deny me.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

You can such hollow words, which make you appear "clean" on the outside, but the dead and hollowness of those words shines through. And this is plain to those with understanding, just as the truth of the father is plain to them.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Appear clean on the outside all you want, praise others like you and pretend you are not praising yourself. I don't care, it's only yourself that you lie to.




[edit on 1-4-2009 by badmedia]

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Swear by the alter, swear by the temple all you want. I swear by heaven and by the father.

Originally posted by badmedia
You can such hollow words, which make you appear "clean" on the outside, but the dead and hollowness of those words shines through. And this is plain to those with understanding, just as the truth of the father is plain to them.

Appear clean on the outside all you want, praise others like you and pretend you are not praising yourself. I don't care, it's only yourself that you lie to.

Nah, see, this is another part of my rebeliousness, I refuse to pretend or acclaim my self, my will, my thoughts, my desires to be the be all and end all.

I don't profess to be "clean" inside or outside, I declare my sinfulness and constant need for forgiveness. The whole point of it is that my singular faith is nothing compared to the faith of the Church in all times and places in which there is liberation from the ego and the near universal attempt to make Truth subjective of our current era.

reply to post by Supercertari


If such was true, then you wouldn't be posting or sharing your opinion with anyone. Actions speak louder than words.

I know when I am in a place, or in a topic where I lack wisdom and understanding, I shut up. Because I do not know. I try to only speak on topics and things that I do have knowledge and understanding of. Otherwise, I would be asking questions(assuming the topic appeals to me).

See, there is a "line" here. To be short of that line is to miss the mark, and to be beyond that line is to miss the mark. To deny what the father has given, or to put yourself down as such is not to be humble, it is to stay short of the mark. To put yourself above others, that is to go beyond the mark.

Or would you have me believe that Jesus wasn't humble? Did Jesus deny anything the father gave him? No. Did he shrink down for the comfort of others? No. Did he praise others so that he may appear humble? No. He hit the line on the mark exactly. What if Jesus had instead of hitting that mark, put himself down for the comfort of others? What if Jesus had instead praised others and only spoke what the pharisees said? Why did he not? Because he actually knew the father.

See, I didn't just "accept" Jesus because someone like you, or some preacher told me to. In fact, I rejected it because of that. It wasn't until after I knew the father for myself that I "accepted" Jesus. I accepted him not because people praise him, not because people worship him, and not because the father told me too(he didn't). I accept what Jesus says is true because I can see the father speaking through him. I see Jesus say the exact same things the father taught me, and I was taught without any bible, without any church. In fact, the father directly told me NOT to do such foolish things, and NOT to make myself into some "leader", as the last thing this world needs is another "God as according to".

The father didn't tell me to go worship Jesus or any other false idols. He told me the opposite. He showed me that it is the path/message that was important, not your silly idols. I was shown exactly HOW and WHY the path of Jesus is the correct path to heaven. I was shown exactly HOW and WHY death is not real and not to be afraid of it. And above all else, it was made known to me that it is by my own choice that I stay here, as I do not have to be here.

So please, tell me why the father says not to make such things of myself, tell me why Jesus says not to make such things of yourself, but yet it is ok for the pope and others to make such things of themselves?

Luke 6:26
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets

[edit on 1-4-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by mrwupy

Freedom has never been the easy path. You must accept what
challenges come your way, responsibility for both your victories and
your failures, and understand that you are in the driver´s seat
of your own life.

Religions don´t allow that. They give you a convenient
scapegoat any time something goes wrong. The devil did it, or the
evil fairies did it or spirits from the dark side made you do it.

Sounds like you understand Dependant Arising and Karma pretty well to me Mr Wuppy.

I am a spiritual Anarchist

Or an unofficial Buddhist?

I need your help to overthrow the
tyranny that is nothing less then the slavery of the human soul.

It certainly usually does, why not just worry about overthrowing a bit more of all of our own self imposed limitations on our "souls" and go for full enlightenment?

Free yourself and then show others how to free themselves, this is the paradox here, no matter how much you want to help another do it you cant, as you said We are in the driving seat.

You cant do it for others, just guide them on how it was for you.

Obviously getting there first.

Buddhism is the only religion I know, maybe some shamanistic practises that don't fit your wonderful eludication of the driving realisation behind many masters, searchers and such likes in human history.

Great Thread thanks

Elf.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

Free yourself and then show others how to free themselves, this is the paradox here, no matter how much you want to help another do it you cant, as you said We are in the driving seat.

Elf.

A brilliant reply and very true.

I can only walk the spiritual path that is my own. I can lead by example and hope others notice. It is not my place to tell another what path they should be walking or what is the ultimate goal of their soul.

I will not be silenced though. As I walk my path I have the right, no the obligation, to share what I have learned with any and all that will listen.

Some will call me a fool, others will simply walk away. That is their right.

I care not if I'm thought a fool. I care not if I'm even ignored.

What is important is I shouted into the forest in the dead of night so perhaps one who is lost may hear my voice, and find a way home. Where ever that home may be.

It's only in the sharing and caring for one another that we as human beings truly grow.

Love and light,

wupy

reply to post by mrwupy

You had me from the first sentence to the third paragraph from the end where you switched canoes in the midstream. Slavery to freedom.....there is no freedom from religion. You may refuse to participate, to take part in any organized religion but that is an illusion. Those who continue to practice religion will consider you a heathen and a sinner and you will have to contend with being obstracized and treated less than fairly. I don't know which would be worse come judgement day....to find out you were wrong, or to find out you were right. If you are not a winner in life i don't see how dying is going to improve your circumstances. We are told to store up our treasures in Heaven.........by implication, if you don't store up enough.....will you have to get a job? How many times a day can you bear for someone to say "God Bless You" to you? I hate sanctimony.

Isn't confession for the redemption of sin? Who exactly would an anarchist confess to and why? I feel that this is a purposeful misnomer to draw the unwary into a brain-twisting torus, the old is it is or is it isn't.

Originally posted by shapeless
Isn't confession for the redemption of sin? Who exactly would an anarchist confess to and why?

Considering I don't believe in religion it would be silly to believe in sin. You have never sinned against God and neither have I. Being alive is AWESOME and yet religions want you to believe your being punished and are unworthy and should feel guilty.

Sorry, not buying it.

reply to post by mrwupy

Okay, let me see if i got this straight, there is a God you and I "have not sinned against", so you are not against the "concept" of "God." Right?
You appear to lump all religions into a single bunch, tarring all of them with the same brush. You appear to suffer from fear of dominion over your freedom of choice by purported dispensers of Divine Law. Church is not a fan club nor a democracy, you don't get a vote. I think this is a sticking point in your spiritual nature. When you really think about it, living in a Theocracy where God is the Law, where sinners cannot exist in His Divine Presence. This might mean that if you were within the kill radius of the Aura of God and you had a sinful thought, your otherwise immortal soul would automatically be destroyed. Someone has to wonder about this stuff. Taking all the sinful parts out of a person sounds a lot like a lobotomy. Might look the same but take away half of their nature and what do you get? A zombie. These are things we strive for, aren't they?