Hamas Vows To Rearm

Originally posted by MrPenny
In fact, the greater question is....who does represent the Palestinians? Fatah runs the West Bank--which incidentally, has not been under attack....I suppose because of the lack of indiscriminately lobbed rockets and mortars. So it's Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Fatah in the West Bank....hmmm, who seems to be doing a better job "representing"?
[edit on 20-1-2009 by MrPenny]

Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas had his building destroyed in an Israeli air strike.
If you tell me how to upload it I can show you a pic of whats left...

reply to post by MrPenny


but you must agree if they do the efficient way, we would call it genocide and there would not be support from the UN or US. and the other Muslim countries won't have the luxury to sit and watch they will have their population on their minds. it would be like a bucket of water in the face, for the international community.

and you must agree if they do the efficient way, the war will be over fast.
if the war would be over fast, less profit and power to those people who have it now.

and they have time, Israelis are not making 20 children/family.

ps: i love rhetoric

reply to post by Ridhya


Don't bother, you're still talking about the Gaza Strip...

Of the presidential office overlooking the sea, only a few walls remain. For many Gazans it was a symbol of our statehood, even though President Mahmoud Abbas, who also heads the Fatah movement, hasn't been there since Hamas seized control of the territory in June 2007.Source

Interesting...the reporter in this article refers to the office of the head of Fatah as their "symbol of statehood"....Huh, not Hamas?

reply to post by encoder


No, I don't agree.....your statements "beg the question"...

First, many here are already calling Israel's actions "genocide"....but it's not really, not at this scale. If Israel was attempting to remove all Arabs, in all countries, then we could probably call it "genocide".

Second, Israel does not have the "support" of the UN....hence, Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon's handwringing and rhetoric. And I'm not sure that anyone is confident in what the new U.S. administration's policies will be towards Israel....probably more of the same, but until it's made clear....who knows for sure?

Third, other Muslim countries don't give a rat's ass for the fate of the Palestinians. Those poor people are there as pawns in an ideological struggle that has been ongoing for centuries. While the leadership of Hamas sits comfortably in Damascus, Syria and Iran use the suffering of Palestinians to de-stabilize Israel and force their actions.....knowing full well of the bigotry towards the Jewish faith within some Christian communities. It is the only ideological factoid that they can share and exploit with other cultures. And, it works.

Fourth, what profit and power is to be gained from this conflict?



[edit on 20-1-2009 by MrPenny]

reply to post by MrPenny


yes and hamas took over.
but the most interesting thing is that he doesn't talk about the victims. witch is good in a certain way.
as i observed their crying has become short lived in the past years. like death was something like -dirt on the shoe- common.

food is becoming more and more an issue like in - and, i wonder how the West Bank is doing.

1- u see that is what i am talking about. the masses not ats.

2.
somethin to read

they use US weapons. on the UN part you might be right, i was speculating.

3. that is the point... if the masses are quiet why should the leader care.

4. who built those f16-s. maintenance?; among many

Originally posted by encoder
like death was something like -dirt on the shoe- common.

Worse than common, exploitable. They exploit death to recruit fighters and suicide bombers.....we've all heard those stories. Worse, the culture seems to have little regard for the dignity of one's corpse, and will readily exploit the most pitiable examples of death....recently illustrated in these forums with a photo of a Palestinian man holding aloft the mutilated, burnt corpse of a child, for the photo op. That type of barbarism boggles my mind.

reply to post by MrPenny


agree, but let us not mistake stomach for barbarism. the child is dead. that is an empty shell. barbarism is who made it that way.

they don't have the nerves anymore to treat empty shells with respect.
i wouldn't be mind boggled even if he ate that corpse.

AND YOU CANNOT JUDGE A CULTURE BY THE ACTIONS OF ONE.
they do bury their dead in respect, for the most part.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by encoder
like death was something like -dirt on the shoe- common.

Worse than common, exploitable. They exploit death to recruit fighters and suicide bombers.....we've all heard those stories. Worse, the culture seems to have little regard for the dignity of one's corpse, and will readily exploit the most pitiable examples of death....recently illustrated in these forums with a photo of a Palestinian man holding aloft the mutilated, burnt corpse of a child, for the photo op. That type of barbarism boggles my mind.

They "exploit death" as you say so that people can see what is happening. So that they are exposed to the truth, not lies through propaganda. They say a picture says a thousand words. With the media usually only covering 1 side of the story this is the only way these people can prove the truth of the situation. It is the only way they can show the world without bias.

The reason Israel cannot do the same is because it isn't happening to them.

If the fate of these people is death anyway, a fate history has proved, then recruiting fighters is the only means of resistance. These people are caged between walls they cannot escape. Every single year these people are dying and the whole world is oblivious to it. They live in poverty, they have no food, no clean water, lack medical supplies, have blockades in place which prevent them from getting to hospital amoung many other conditions imposed upon them.

In the same position, seeing children being killed before my eyes and watching my family die, I too would rather die fighting then die without cause.

Originally posted by encoder
4. who built those f16-s. maintenance?; among many

Big deal.....U.S. arms sales to Israel are a pointless argument.

Table 4. Leading Purchasers of U.S. Defense Articles and
Services, Total Values of Near East Agreements Concluded
(in current U.S. dollars, rounded to nearest 10 million or 10th of a billion)

Near East
Agreements
2000-2003
1 U.A.E. $7.1 billion a
a. Includes a $6.432 billion licensed commercial agreement concluded in 2000 for 80 F-16 fighter aircraft.
2 Egypt $5.9 billion
3 Israel $5.0 billion
4 Saudi Arabia $2.7 billion
5 Kuwait $1.7 billion

Near East
Agreements
2004-2007
1 Saudi Arabia $5.2 billion
2 Egypt $4.3 billion
3 Israel $3.3 billion
4 U.A.E. $2.7 billion
5 Iraq $2.0 billion

Near East
Agreements
2007
1 Egypt 1.7 billion
2 U.A.E. $1.7 billion
3 Iraq $1.6 billion
4 Saudi Arabia $1.4 billion
5 Israel $970 million

It's an external source, but I cut and pasted it for formatting....it's in .pdf format, makes a smooth transfer weird. The source is Here

Kinda' throws the ol' "U.S. arms trade with Israel" thing all out of whack? Don't it?

Originally posted by Obliterated
They say a picture says a thousand words. With the media usually only covering 1 side of the story this is the only way these people can prove the truth of the situation. It is the only way they can show the world without bias.

What thousand words do you suppose that particular instance wrote? What lie was uncovered with the display of a mutilated corpse? Who do you suppose is stupid enough to not be aware that children are dying in this conflict?

If the fate of these people is death anyway, a fate history has proved, then recruiting fighters is the only means of resistance.

Careful with the empty rhetoric now.....history hasn't proven anything, other than the fact that a group of people referred to as "Palestinians" is still here. Recruiting fighters is not the "only means of resistance"...it is only a means to hasten their deaths.

reply to post by MrPenny


This is how much for 2007
US defence aid to Israel currently stands at $2.4bn a year
news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by MrPenny

Kinda' throws the ol' "U.S. arms trade with Israel" thing all out of whack? Don't it?

It is "Out of Whack" as you have stated, but it is that way due to the incorrect act of the US not withstanding teh initial insurgence of the Israeli's in the first place.
And just because you have an "Arm's Deal" menu list, you can rest assure that the planes doing most of the damage were US oriented.
Israel will never win an out right confrontation, and Hamas will not be thwarted of their personal analogies of what Israel is to them.

If you get a chance to make down to your local news stand, pick up the newly released "Time" magazine, it's headlines are correct, and with the Israeli's/Zionists/Jewish populations at current state, and doing a bit of a future calculation, "Arab's will out number teh Israeli's by the million's, thus making the Israeli's a minority in their own state."



I had privy to reading the articles of this edition back on the 14-15th of this month, early release issue, tried to get permission to post the find, but the MOD's and the Site Owner's never replied to me for a call of whether or not it would of been construed as plagiarism being's the issue had not been released. No response, but here is the basic cover for the ATSer's to watch for, it is quite the "Insightful" read and ultimate conclusions of this particular "Ethnic Skirmish".

And for the record, "This is an act of genocide in the form of ethnic cleansing, Israel should be put on trial, no sense in shooting unarmed men, women and children. No matter how one looks at it."

reply to post by MrPenny


nice, but mine has a title

"Free Weapons to Israel"

in fact its something like this > the citizen gives the money to the gov. the gov. gives it to israel, israel buys US weapons.

Originally posted by MrPenny


What thousand words do you suppose that particular instance wrote? What lie was uncovered with the display of a mutilated corpse? Who do you suppose is stupid enough to not be aware that children are dying in this conflict?

People deny that chemical weapons are used, the burns on some of these children prove otherwise. Others say that they're used as human shields, yet alot of these kids have died from sniper wounds to the head, which proves that they have been targetted intentionally.

I live in Australia, when people ask my background I say Palestinian/Lebanese. Most people have never heard of Palestine before now. It's a place that's been swept under the rug with little to no coverage up until this point. People haven't even heard of it until this current conflict.

Careful with the empty rhetoric now.....history hasn't proven anything, other than the fact that a group of people referred to as "Palestinians" is still here. Recruiting fighters is not the "only means of resistance"...it is only a means to hasten their deaths.

My grandparents were forced to leave in 1948 and fled with their children who were very young at the time. Palestinians used to make up 80% of the population, now only account for about 20%. This has been going on for 60 years. In another 60 years, this history will be erased. These people will not be known to exist. They are left with 2 options. They can sit back and do nothing while they die, or they fight back, and at least they'll die knowing that they tried.

Originally posted by Obliterated
Others say that they're used as human shields, yet alot of these kids have died from sniper wounds to the head, which proves that they have been targetted intentionally.

What's the distinguishing characteristic of a "sniper" wound to the head, as opposed to any other round or projectile...errant or not?

So, here you are, claiming the "exposure of truth", and you have zero idea if what you just wrote there is factual or not. Show us what "a lot" is....distinguish how a "sniper" wound is different from any other wound....then show how that "proves" they were intentionally targeted.

reply to post by Obliterated


That may have been true last July....being as that is the date on the article. Nonetheless, from the same article....

The BBC's Bethany Bell in Jerusalem says the package is seen as an attempt to allay Israeli concerns over the planned arms deal with Saudi Arabia, reportedly worth $20bn (£9.8bn) over the next decade.

This is not a one-sided thing.....and please stop trying to frame it that way.

reply to post by Obliterated


Again learn your history they were there under united nations mandate as a peacekeeping force so they were under UN control And took there orders from a UN commander.

reply to post by Obliterated

I have a friend that lives in Israel he would not refer to himself as Palestinian since there is no such place but i will tell yo his family has lived in the area a long time still has the property his grandfather grew up on owns several car dealerships and just because hes Palestinian doesn't that mean the Israelis should have taken all that from him? In case you didn't know there is a lot of Palestinians living in Israel and consider themselves Israeli citizens. Ive visited him several times and unlike you Ive been to the area i know what people there think and feel. And even Palestinians in Israel know hamas is terrorists.

[edit on 1/21/09 by dragonridr]