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The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

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posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by s.f.l.d

But all in all... the Book has no tainted words in it..... I'll tell you if I come across them.


2 Timothy 2:16-18: "Have nothing to do with pointless philosophical discussions --they only lead further and further away from true religion.Talk of this kind corrodes like gangrene, as in the case of Hymanaeus and Philetus, the men who have gone astray from the Truth and claim that the resurrection has already taken place. Some people's faith cannot stand up to them."

These passages are a Pharisaical-Satanic contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus that the "resurrection" is the revelation of the memories of previous lives, and the figurative language in the Gospel of Matthew 27:52-53 that, at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus, some of the apostles who were closest to him received that Revelation.

It is the "Pharisaical" faith in the physical raising of a dead body from the grave that cannot "stand up to" the assertion of some that they have received the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

This changes the Bible into a compilation of Revelations and the Pharisaical-Satanic doctrines of Paul.

One of the Biggest Lies in the history of human civilization.

Michael Cecil




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


What are you talking about?

In fact... this is probably the best passage you could have offered me in my own defense against forum talks like this! (lol)

The passage in bold elaborates on two apostates Hymenaeus and Philetus... and the verses you provided teach us not to provide false teachings. These individuals may have believed that resurrection was simply some magical experience one has.... This has nothing to do with what Paul addresses about life after death.

As for Paul... you are referring to 1 Corinthians 15: 12 and on... Paul is tackling the argument just as we tackle it day by day... the issue of life after death. If life after death does not exist, then the Christian faith is useless. Everything Christ had done would have been wasted. He states that our resurrection will be from a perishable body to an imperishable body, just as it was seen in Jesus. These verses Paul states the counterpoints and challenges the people to stand firm in their belief.

In Matthew 27 (Jesus' death) the verses you site are that of holy individuals rising again at the moment of the Lord's death. These aren't memories, and they didn't only pertain to the apostles.

There is no delivery of memories or false imagery. You are addressing completely different topics at different times. These passages are all wonderful helps towards understanding the Word when you look at them all in the big picture.

Laters



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I was just wondering if you were ever going to answer the vast number of questions you have avoided throughout this thread? I thought the point was to prove the bible is the word of God? Am I wrong? You seem to be picking and choosing which arguments you are willing to attempt and which you will ignore. If you know God's perfect wisdom enough to defend his book, I am still curious about that 18,000 species of land animals number as well as some other things.
if that "seems" to be the case then most likely people I have "avoided" are asking me questions. When u have someone ignored you cannot read anything they post, yet they can read what you post. Perhaps it should not be this way, but I didn't set up the forum.


I do not understand. If you can read that, then you could read my question. Not only that, you just quoted me asking it yet again. Is there a reason you refuse to answer it?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I was just wondering if you were ever going to answer the vast number of questions you have avoided throughout this thread? I thought the point was to prove the bible is the word of God? Am I wrong? You seem to be picking and choosing which arguments you are willing to attempt and which you will ignore. If you know God's perfect wisdom enough to defend his book, I am still curious about that 18,000 species of land animals number as well as some other things.
if that "seems" to be the case then most likely people I have "avoided" are asking me questions. When u have someone ignored you cannot read anything they post, yet they can read what you post. Perhaps it should not be this way, but I didn't set up the forum.


I do not understand. If you can read that, then you could read my question. Not only that, you just quoted me asking it yet again. Is there a reason you refuse to answer it?
You said i have avoided a "VAST number of questions throughout this entire thread", if that's NOT the case then excuse me. I simply took you at your word. If there is one question from you that you want answered please ask again, I must have missed it. I have numerous threads on ATS and BTS that I reply in, if I overlook a post here or there don't take offense.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


How bout some topics for you?

Prove to me that the big bang happened.

Prove to me that dark matter exists.

Prove to me how this rock we live on has perfectly existed in a solar system/universe that almost every other celestial body is constantly pummeled with asteroids where no life could exist, and yet this one perfection remains and keeps ticking. Where galaxies intertwine and destroy stars to create new ones. And yet here we are...

The questions you ask religious person are the same type of question scientists cannot answer but science believers still have faith in. I don't understand how people can sleep soundly at night simply believing in theory created by man, especially with teachings and opportunity laid in front of you. There is no reason science & religion can't coexist... but the first step is to remove all the pointless quarreling, which would be rather hard.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You said i have avoided a "VAST number of questions throughout this entire thread", if that's NOT the case then excuse me. I simply took you at your word. If there is one question from you that you want answered please ask again, I must have missed it. I have numerous threads on ATS and BTS that I reply in, if I overlook a post here or there don't take offense.


I thought I would make it easy and just give you one for now. So I asked it again, just two posts back. You know, the one you replied to apologizing for maybe missing something. Do you really want to play this game again or can you just go back and read it since I did take the time to ask it?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


How bout some topics for you?


Sounds like fun.


Prove to me that the big bang happened.


The big bang is actually a really broad term when you break down creation vs. technical aspects of the big bang. Specifically which thing that I have said about the big bang would you like me to start with?


Prove to me that dark matter exists.


That is such a complicated issue but I am certain I can back up all my claims on this. Please cite one you would like to question.


Prove to me how this rock we live on has perfectly existed in a solar system/universe that almost every other celestial body is constantly pummeled with asteroids where no life could exist, and yet this one perfection remains and keeps ticking. Where galaxies intertwine and destroy stars to create new ones. And yet here we are...


That might take a while. Maybe you should refer me to my earlier claims about such so I am not covering old territory?


The questions you ask religious person are the same type of question scientists cannot answer but science believers still have faith in. I don't understand how people can sleep soundly at night simply believing in theory created by man, especially with teachings and opportunity laid in front of you. There is no reason science & religion can't coexist... but the first step is to remove all the pointless quarreling, which would be rather hard.


It sure would when I ask a question about a claim someone else made and you pounce on me like this.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Sorry just eager
hahaha. I just see too many arguments that look the same, and it all boils down to each party asking, well basically, rhetorical questions. Each party has a big explanation for their question that the other will not believe based off personal values...

Crazy times, and I'll stick out of your fun between you two haha.... but if you'd like to debate in the future I'm game. It's always nice to see any view point in the world.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Sorry just eager
hahaha. I just see too many arguments that look the same, and it all boils down to each party asking, well basically, rhetorical questions. Each party has a big explanation for their question that the other will not believe based off personal values...


Well I like to think I am a little more open minded but you have to admit. When you ask a legitimate scientist to explain the big bang, you are going to get a lot of real information, whether you agree with the conclusion or not. If you ask a qualified person about creation, all you get is "God did it." You understand how one might seem more compelling than the other?

Either way, I made no such claims. What I saw was a poster making insane claims about why he believed the story of Noah's Ark was true. So I began asking about them. I never got any real answers. That is really all I have been on about here.


Crazy times, and I'll stick out of your fun between you two haha.... but if you'd like to debate in the future I'm game. It's always nice to see any view point in the world.


No need to butt out. This is an open forum and the more people engaged the better. Besides, it is getting a little stale and over my head with all the talk of who wrote what and when and whether or not Paul died or if when he entered a room in Heaven, people stared "thats that alive guy" and on and on.

If you have something to add, go for it. Do you believe the story of Noah? Do you believe in Giants? Do you believe in all the kooky miracle stories in the bible?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


What are you talking about?


Previously, on one of these threads or another, I mentioned that the reverse speech analysis of the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees included the following statement: "And then when I die, see what".

The forward statement, which resulted in that reversal was: "Now He is God, not of the dead......".

For a complete reverse speech analysis of the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees in the Gospel of Luke 20:27-20 see:

www.hashemstudios-board.com...

Michael Cecil



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


The passage in bold elaborates on two apostates Hymenaeus and Philetus... and the verses you provided teach us not to provide false teachings. These individuals may have believed that resurrection was simply some magical experience one has.... This has nothing to do with what Paul addresses about life after death.


They were not apostates. They believed the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of "resurrection" which is further explained in the Treatise On Resurrection in the Nag Hammadi Codices.

The demonic, Pharisaical doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave is one of the principal doctrines of the Satanic-Pauline (Christian) -anti-Christ religious system.

That doctrine lead to the deification of Jesus, the doctrine of "vicarious atonement', the demonization of "the Jews" as the "Christ-killers" and the slaughter of millions of Jews during the Holocaust.

Jesus specifically repudiates the doctrine of any physical raising of a dead body from the grave in his reply to the Sadducees.

You need to read it more carefully.

Similarly, there are no historical accounts whatsoever of "holy men" coming out of their tombs at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus, or Paul would have used that as evidence of a physical "resurrection". He did not, because he could not. Those who received those memories taught a completely different Doctrine of "resurrection" than he did; which is the reason that Paul murdered--repeat, murdered--the original followers of Jesus.

Michael Cecil



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Previously, on one of these threads or another, I mentioned that the reverse speech analysis of the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees included the following statement: "And then when I die, see what".


Reverse speech analysis on the words of someone from 2000 years ago? That was never faithfully recorded, word for word? (please produce said transcript IF i am mistaken)

WTF are you smoking man? Do you remember the convo in your head?

No really, what on earth are you talking about?




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by harryhaller

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Previously, on one of these threads or another, I mentioned that the reverse speech analysis of the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees included the following statement: "And then when I die, see what".


Reverse speech analysis on the words of someone from 2000 years ago? That was never faithfully recorded, word for word? (please produce said transcript IF i am mistaken)

WTF are you smoking man? Do you remember the convo in your head?

No really, what on earth are you talking about?


I provided the link.

All you have to do is click on it.

I did this as an experiment.

I had no idea whatsoever whether there would be any results at all; especially because the words we have are a translation into English of what Jesus said probably in Aramaic.

I don't know that there is any evidence in reverse speech analysis which in any way suggests that the reversals are maintained even in translation.

I would be very interested in someone fluent in Aramaic to read those words and then do a reverse speech analysis of that reading to see what the Aramaic reversals are.

Would they be the same?

Or would they provide still additional information?

Who knows?

To my knowledge, this has never been done before.

My wife was trained in reverse speech analysis by David John Oates, the originator of reverse speech analysis. So there is no doubt that the reversals are valid.

Michael Cecil



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


I have studied the Genesis chapters for a while. I have learned that genesis chapter 1 can be explained scientifically from the very beginning.

Genesis Chapter 2 is different. Genesis chapter 2 is the part of genesis that makes creation seam like fiction or magic. Chapter 2 can't be explained rationally. You have to have faith in "Lord God" to believe that it is true.

You dont need faith to believe what is explained in chapter 1. You just need a bit of scientific knowledge to put the pieces into the right place. As a suggestion from me, it might be best to scratch verse 1. Unless you understand what verse 1 means. Verse 1 is misread by most people.

If you start with the first sentence in verse 2, and read it carefully you will understand what the beginning really looked like. If you cant vision it, just find a black sheet of paper and look at it. Then read the first sentence in verse 2. and you will see that it fits perfectly.


Now the last sentence in verse 2 needs a bit of scientific knowledge from your side.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


If you get this part wrong there wont be any light in verse 3. So verse 3 is a hint to what the movement of Gods spirit upon the water is.

To get this right you have to remember that the universe is expanding. That is a scientifically proven fact. That means in the beginning everything must have been compressed. A compression of energy would without doubt create the light explained in verse 3. And a compression is a movement

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


I will let you figure out the rest. It is very easy.


Genesis chapter 1 and 2 is a good indication that the Bible has probably been tampered with. "Chapter 1 is true and chapter 2 is false".

Genesis chapter 2 is so out of reality it stinks of human knowledge and imagination. To believe in chapter 2 you have to go from being a rational human being to a total idiot.

Most Christians believe in Lord God. And what fools they are for doing so. Lord God is not God. Lord God is like Hitler who can fool a nation to commit the greatest of crimes.

PS. Maybe Hitler had more knowledge about religion than most people care to notice. Lord God and the Old testament might be the clue to Hitlers cruelty towards the Israelites.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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I did click on the link.

And the more you talk the more you seem to believe your own delusions. When clearly to one else does.

You are certainly a prolific writer, lots of energy.

You seen an exorcist about your problem yet?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
I did click on the link.

And the more you talk the more you seem to believe your own delusions. When clearly to one else does.

You are certainly a prolific writer, lots of energy.

You seen an exorcist about your problem yet?


Right here is the rationale used by the Sadducees and the Pharisees for having Jesus murdered; the rationale of Paul for murdering the followers of Jesus and the Gnostics; the rationale of the Roman church in slaughtering "heretics", "infidels", Jews, Muslims, "witches" and Albigensians.

Fundamentally, it is an attempt by the 'fallen' consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker' 'to preserve itself at all costs--to the violation of the Moral Law; even to the extermination of the entire civilization, if that is what it takes.

Thanks for playing.

Michael Cecil



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
I did click on the link.

And the more you talk the more you seem to believe your own delusions. When clearly to one else does.

You are certainly a prolific writer, lots of energy.

You seen an exorcist about your problem yet?


In the Easter, 1990 edition of L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, there is an article which states quite plainly that the revelation of the memories of previous lives must be considered as a form of "demon possession" (or maybe "demonic possession").

That is a direct quote from the article that I read more than 20 years ago.

This is precisely the same terminology which was used by the Sadducees and the Pharisees against Jesus; and evidence that the Roman church has turned the Teaching of Jesus upside down in following the Satanic doctrines of the Pharisee Paul.

My long term--and I mean long term--memory works just fine.

Michael Cecil

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Michael Cecil]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 06:17 AM
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Hmmmmmm.... What i have seen and how it reads to me....first of all the king james version of the bible was sensored and created on behalf of an earthly king to control the population at the time....it was written by so called scholars at the time and if something did not sit right out of the words being said thenit was omitted...HMMMMMMM

Lets look at it in a more literal sense....LET THE BE LIGHT....it is like a greater technology being viewed by lesser beings.....i just zapped myself back to the year 1492 and i have a pocket ligther with me as i walk upto christopher coloumbus and i flick it on and i am the miracle worker holding fire....i get out my mobile phone and i take a picture of him and i show him and lo and behod he is amazed and i am now a god amongst men....so now i leave and he has to relate this story to others but how does he tell them....hmmmmmm....look he coul make fire in his hands and he could steal my soul and put it in a box.....so here we have a bunch of scholars writing about thing they do not understand and can only describe things with what knowledge they have availible to themselves....which now leaves so much open to misintepretation and makes things so much more god like than in fact it could be a primitive dealing with unknown technology to them.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by plube
 


You wouldn't be seen as a God to Christopher Columbus by showing him a lighter or a mobile phone. He would probably ask you where and how you got it.

People in the old days weren't stupid. The Bible was created by people even older then Columbus, And the bible is a brilliant piece of work not even we can figure out.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You said i have avoided a "VAST number of questions throughout this entire thread", if that's NOT the case then excuse me. I simply took you at your word. If there is one question from you that you want answered please ask again, I must have missed it. I have numerous threads on ATS and BTS that I reply in, if I overlook a post here or there don't take offense.


I thought I would make it easy and just give you one for now. So I asked it again, just two posts back. You know, the one you replied to apologizing for maybe missing something. Do you really want to play this game again or can you just go back and read it since I did take the time to ask it?


First of all, don't talk down to me, I'm not your spouse nor your child. I'm not required to dignify ANYTHING you say, so remember that next time you get the idea to approach me with a condescending tone. If you want respect, then offer it.

Secondly, you're the one that claimed there were 'VAST' numbers of posts I was refusing to respond to. I don't see them, but on the same hand there are virtually 30+ threads I'm involved with, not to mention U2Us and such. Sometimes things get overlooked, I've apologized for that. You stated you wanted me to address the 18,000 kinds statement of yours, but you fail to do what you've asked me to do, you don't want to re-read the entire thread and look for the answer. I've answered that a couple times already. If you still want to address it, perhaps I can answer in a different manner? But I feel I've already discussed it.

Thirdly, i was focusing my response on your main point addressed in the onset of your post, not the minor sentence at the end of it. if the 18,000 kids statement was the focus of your post, then I'm sorry, perhaps you should have started your reply with it instead of asking me about these 'vast' number of posts that I'm refusing to acknowledge. So let's try this again; What do you want me to discuss??




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