Why is it This Did Not Make the News?

Oh my lord....I don't even know where to start with the thread. Friendly nations spy on friendly nations.

Here's an article on it:
www.slate.com...

Knowledge of your enemies and your friends is power.

As for the Hamas and Jewish comments flying back and forth along with the anit-american / anti-american goverment and foreign policy comments......there are plenty of other threads on ATS concerning all of those topics.

I am an American. I am proud of my country. Our government needs an overhaul. I don't like our current group of politicians and the policies being embraced. Voting politicians out on the State and Federal level is a good start.

The American media stinks and has absolutely no back bone. I wish we had some truthful fact finding journalist who could dig and dig and dig to bring out some of the truths for the masses to see and read about.

nuff said.



[edit on 8-1-2009 by wdkirk]

[edit on 8-1-2009 by wdkirk]

A spy steals secrets and gives them to an unauthorized recipient.

Therefore, you can't be a spy and deliver US secrets to Israel.

The proper term is 'courier', or emissary, or ambassador.

However, if you get caught giving secrets to Israel, then you have to say 'The gig is up, you caught me, I'm a spy, I stole these. I'll give them back, here they are.'

Um, I see where this thread has gone, but (and I hope I did not miss someone who already beat be to it) this DID, um, in fact, make the news. This guy says he looked everywhere. I did a simple search and found these link below:
These concern the news in December:
external link
external link
external link
external link
external link


These concern the news in April:
external link
which OP did mention. but it is not that old. It seems to have a high connection to the Pollard case.

external link
I see espionage which is just part of interstate relations. It is not always a hostile thing and it is expected. Ever read spy vs. spy?

external link

He claims he was not paid by Israel and there is no proof yet not to take him at his word because Zionism is a powerful motivator just like patriotic Christianity in the USA.

The reason that it was not headline news is because it was more fallout from the Pollard case than anything which was much bigger news. That case had already been played with in the 80s. It's just a connections thing and finally bringing an old spy to American justice, not Israel sneaking around on America.

International relationships are not like two best friends who always look out for each other. More like business associates who may go over each other but both want the other to benefit.

Trust is a major aspect of this.

This man spied for Israel on America not in any plans to become greater than America but with plans to make Israel more secure against Middle Eastern threats using technology gained from the Americans, albiet in an illegal manner.

I cannot find a link but it also looks like it was on Wolf Blitzer (the april events)!

Why has everyone gone off on another discussion of Israel and its motivations instead of researching whether or not the original post is entirely accurate? And no, I am not one of those posters that erroneously calls all people who have something negative to say about Israel antisemites. So do not bring that up. I am only accusing people of getting off topic and not promoting ATS research-before-you-post integrity.

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


Why?

Because of the BOSS.

GOD ALMIGHTY happened to have a friendship with his buddy Abraham.

And GOD ALMIGHTY CHOSE to promise a list of wonderful blessings to Abraham's kids . . . whether they deserved it, or not . . . for HIS own reasons and HIS OWN GLORY.

HE WILL SEE HIS PLAN FULFILLED.

However, I consider it highly unlikely that you'll believe a word of the above . . . and that it is highly probable that you'll be observing Israel's rise to the top of the universal heap after Armageddon from . . . a different vantage point than your current one.

reply to post by Wehali


I noticed you convientently left out where your were from, hmm I can just imagine that the country you are from is so much better. I feel sorry for the evil that has infected you and has closed your eyes to the people that are using you as a pawn to fuel hatred towards others around you keeping the hostility alive.

I would just like to point out, as a member of the U.S. Army, DU (depleted uranium for those who dont know) is a safe isotope of Uranium. DU has a half-life of 4.5 Billion years, which means its radioactivity is only 0.7% that of the natural mixture of U-235 and U-238. To elaborate, The Half-Life of a radioactive substance is the time it takes HALF of the substances atoms to decay into something else. So the longer the half-life, the less radioactive it is. The Military uses DU because it is an incredibly hard substance that penetrates almost any kind of modern armor easily. IMHO, everybody comes into contact with some form of radiation everyday. Also, in your drinking water, there is "negligible" amounts of lead, arsenic and many other things but nobody seems to complain about that. Im in no way trying to support the government or its activities in the middle east, I am merely trying to clear up that DU isnt as radioactive as any isotope used in nuclear facilities. So if people want to complain about nuclear waste, complain about the nuclear powerplants because they use Plutonium and Uranium in the purest forms, which is worse than any DU you will find on any battlefield.

www.fas.org...
www.ccnr.org...
www.wisegeek.com...

[Edit] BTW wdkirk, AWSOME. We need more people that think like you do.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

reply to post by ps1klon3


Let us examine what the Army video has to say about DU and YOU


mMmmm. Alpha Emitters like DU when inhaled or ingested will become trapped in that person. Alpha particles that get past our skin like if swallowed will cause the swallower continuous exposure for life to that or those particles. Alpha particles can cause cancer.

DU is not incredibly hard at all and is easy to machine. DU is incredibly DENSE and pyrophoric and that makes it a great penitrator.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum


Sorry, I cant view streaming video on the network I am in. But what I was merely trying to say was there is worse things in this world to worry about than a bunch of DU slugs, and if you didnt happen to know, the Army is very good about cleaning up after themselves. Yes there will always be things that the army doesnt find that somebody else will. Also understand that anybody who handles radioactive material wears proper protective equipment. The equipment is issued to them, BUT its up to them to wear it properly. I never said it wasnt radioactive, I said its a safe form. I should have used a better word and said "safer." Anyways does anybody know how nuclear plants store nuclear waste fuel? They put it in pools of water that constantly circulate to keep the waste rods cool. What do they do with that water? Everybody drinks water right? They "clean" the water and put it right back into systems. Of course I cannot find anything on that, if somebody can please link it. Most of that information is classified so you wont find it on the internet very easily.

[Edit] Ummm, Uranium is second hardest to Tungsten. That makes it 2x harder than Titanium, and 3 times harder than iron. I think that qualifies as an incredibly hard substance.

www.eoslifework.co.uk...
page numbered 75

Also, you are right about it being an alpha emitter and right about the ingestion. But since alpha rays cant penetrate a piece of paper or skin for that matter? I think that also qualifies as "safe" considering most ppl wear a combat uniform which is much thicker than paper for that matter.



[edit on 8-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

Here's a recent article about Israeli 'art' students and spying.
Also 9-11

reply to post by lagnar


Hey man...

Don't let it get the better of you.

It shows that you're more human than they are, just because it bothers you.

I agree it's depressing. Really depressing.

But as i get older, i'm coming to the realisation that the world and it's corruptions and crooked leadership, has always been like this, from centuries ago at least.

They are just getting very cavalier lately. It's as if, they are kinds feeling 'Ahh f**k 'em, what are they gonna do about it anyway?

They own the media, the land, the property, the law, the government, the military and the civil servants. They are feeling pretty confident there's not really much 'we' can do about anything they do. They might be right too.

But hey, the sun will come up tomorrow...maybe.

spikey.

Originally posted by ps1klon3
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

Sorry, I cant view streaming video on the network I am in. But what I was merely trying to say was there is worse things in this world to worry about than a bunch of DU slugs, and if you didnt happen to know, the Army is very good about cleaning up after themselves. Yes there will always be things that the army doesnt find that somebody else will. Also understand that anybody who handles radioactive material wears proper protective equipment. The equipment is issued to them, BUT its up to them to wear it properly. I never said it wasnt radioactive, I said its a safe form. I should have used a better word and said "safer." Anyways does anybody know how nuclear plants store nuclear waste fuel? They put it in pools of water that constantly circulate to keep the waste rods cool. What do they do with that water? Everybody drinks water right? They "clean" the water and put it right back into systems. Of course I cannot find anything on that, if somebody can please link it. Most of that information is classified so you wont find it on the internet very easily.

[Edit] Ummm, Uranium is second hardest to Tungsten. That makes it 2x harder than Titanium, and 3 times harder than iron. I think that qualifies as an incredibly hard substance.

www.eoslifework.co.uk...
page numbered 75

Also, you are right about it being an alpha emitter and right about the ingestion. But since alpha rays cant penetrate a piece of paper or skin for that matter? I think that also qualifies as "safe" considering most ppl wear a combat uniform which is much thicker than paper for that matter.

Mmmmmmmmm, SAFE/SAFER RADIO ACTIVE DECAY....
There is no such thing PERIOD

DU is used for its very high density of 19.1 g/cm3

Now since DU is a PYROPHORIC (spontaneous ignition) material upon contact it creates a cloud of DU dust. This dust can and is spread around by the wind. The particles are easily respired by human and animal lungs. Now again the alpha particle gets past the skin into an organ like the lung or makes it around the blood stream. Particles that make it into animals can make it into humans if they happen to eat them.


The bad news is that the human body is not designed to deal with any of these particles at all. If you want to breath or eat DU dust then by all means do so. Stop attempting to spread misinformation about how safe DU is since you have apparently been lied to or have misunderstood or are foolish about radioactive substances.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

It was in reuters.

Reuters

I never noticed this until you brought it to my attention.

What ever you do -- Do Not -- Elect me as President... my first action will be to drop smart bombs on London City Centre - followed with a full blown engagement with Isreal.... not for 911 ... for the Sailors that were murdered in thier life rafts...

if Isreal wants war ... they are going to have to build their own weapons.

Originally posted by Harman
[The soldiers of the US are the brunt of the Western force in the middle-east.

You are right in what you say and i'm not fingerpointing as in being mad or judgemental, it's just that the bullets as they are shot now come from a certain direction and it points to the US.

I agree that in this moment the US is playing policeman. However, if we were not, would policing stop? Or would the wealthy simply hire someone else? That is my argument for not pointing fingers but rather to look at the whole dynamic. If the US were to absolutely and utterly remove itself from the conflict in the middle east there would be a very short period of time before another military force was assembled to fill that role. The business interests that want an Israel, (and they care much less about the Jews than they do the fact that there be a bastion of what passes for "capitalism" in the middle east to allow them to extract resources) would simply find another group of mercenaries to fill that role.

Bashing on the US is a mistake because it focuses on a symptom of the problem rather than the problem itself. Which in essence is the desire to be better, have more, to dehumanize others for self aggrandizement. We call this a lot of things. "Greed" "power mongering" etc. But it is also apparent even in the act of criticizing one group while pretending superiority on the part of another. This is OUR problem. Yours and ours, and everyones. We need to ask if we can find another way to live that recognizes the inherent value and failings of all humans rather than one that seeks to elevate some at the expense of others.

Clearly, in light of the failed experiments in "communism" we do not have a method at present for doing this. Even in that system the same problem reared its ugly head with those in "charge" (and I mean those who were supposed to be entrusted with equitable distribution) again taking the opportunity to aggrandize themselves at the expense of those not in a position to stop them.

Originally posted by Harman
Everybody talks about what happens at the other side of the pacific but in Europe it is much, much worse in respect of indoctrination by the educational system, media and the stranglehold of the banks. You still have a chance (no matter how slim) to wrestle out of it without changing laws and just defaulting back on the declaration, here? Not so much.

In this you may be right. I can see how wasted opportunity would make some annoyed at the American people. But the fact is you have to really LOOK at how conflict arises and how human beings actually operate psychologically to find a way to change this. Isolating and attacking the people here, will only make us (collectively not every individual) more certain that the "them and us" mindset is the correct one. This compounds the problem, enables it, it does nothing at all to alleviate it. It is the same whether it is countries doing it, or races , or genders, or individuals. Where one perceives attack there will be defense and counter attack. No one wants to think that they are "bad" and so criticism of a hostile nature will always bring denial particularly when accompanied by an attitude of superiority on the part of the criticizer, even if there is some truth to the criticism.

We have to find another way. We need to identify within ourselves and our nations the specific individual elements that are creating the problem and we need to work to remove them. (or more accurately render them harmless to the whole) In short, we need to remove the beams from our eyes rather than look at the splinter in the eye of our neighbors. We can do this by asking "Who is benefiting from the way things work now?" It isnt you, nor I, nor most of the worlds population. It isnt a specific nation or race, it is a specific personality type that every nation or race has a subset of. People within each group in whom this propensity for self aggrandizement far exceeds the normal portion allotted to all humans. In whom it is a pathology. Our leaders, in other words.

Plato had a solution. People of certain character must be appointed to lead, and there must be societal safeguards in place to ensure that the natural tendencies even in these less "selfish" individuals not be allowed to overwhelm them. (As power corrupts even that which is less corruptible by nature.) What made Plato great was that he was not in denial about human nature, even in himself, and he designed a system that would allow human nature to operate within a constraint so that human nature brought out the best of us, rather than the worst.

Whether his proposal were adopted or not, what needs to be done, everywhere, by humanity as a whole is for us to take a real and unbiased look at ourselves our own nature, and the societal constructs we have created and ask ourselves "Is this really working?"

The answer depends on what conditions you think the whole of humanity should endure. What we have now works brilliantly for some, but for the majority it is a colossal failure. And the costs of this system keep rising generation after generation, and they do not have to. It is not necessary for us to live this way. We DO all of us, have a natural predisposition for self aggrandizement. But that is not all we have. We also have a capacity for compassion, using reason, planning, justice, and are one of the most cooperative mammals on the planet. Now we need to revamp our societal construct in order to maximize our strengths and minimize our natural HUMAN weaknesses.

Edit for clarity.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum


Ok Im sorry for offending you. But unless you work directly with these things, or are in the military with any jurisdiction to the information, dont point fingers and dont talk about something you know nothing about. Also, im not to sure anybody on the recieving end of one of these shells is gonna be worried about breathing in the particles and im also pretty sure that people dont eat animals that they didnt kill especially in a warzone. And if your currently NOT in Iraq, or anywhere the military is deployed to, I dont see how you have a right to point out anything that I have said to be wrong. And one other thing, uranium is EVERYWHERE. You come in contact with it everyday and I dont hear YOU suffering for it. And no use in posting a reply to this because you are obviously uneducated about the military or its weapon systems. However, if you can point me to some piece of information regarding somebody somewhere dieing from inhaling or eating an animal that has a DIRECT link to DU, I would gladly apologize and change my views.



[edit on 8-1-2009 by ps1klon3]

Originally posted by ps1klon3
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

Ok Im sorry for offending you. But unless you work directly with these things, or are in the military with any jurisdiction to the information, dont point fingers and dont talk about something you know nothing about. Also, im not to sure anybody on the recieving end of one of these shells is gonna be worried about breathing in the particles and im also pretty sure that people eat animals that they didnt kill especially in a warzone. And if your currently NOT in Iraq, or anywhere the military is deployed to, I dont see how you have a right to point out anything that I have said to be wrong. And one other thing, uranium is EVERYWHERE. You come in contact with it everyday and I dont hear YOU suffering for it. And no use in posting a reply to this because you are obviously uneducated about the military or its weapon systems. However, if you can point me to some piece of information regarding somebody somewhere dieing from inhaling or eating an animal that has a DIRECT link to DU, I would gladly apologize and change my views.

I have the 1st Amendment right that allows me to tell you that if you breath in DU dust odds are you will get cancer. I have no respect for someone that should get the Darwin Award. DU is obtained from spent nuclear fuel rods. The penetrators strike targets like buildings, tanks, cars or anything that the military might want to make a target of. The idiotic part is to believe that once the dust is created it can be cleaned to any degree.

As you stated you could not watch that video clip but if you did you would have watched how the military is trained to clean up after itself. The dust from these rounds is spread through the air via the wind. Iraq has massive dust storms and in all probability is the equivalent of an ongoing nuclear disaster. It is too bad that the military has you all programed to defend waging a war with nuclear waste projectiles. Regardless I hope you are a better soldier than an example of a scientific mind.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
...would it be inappropriate for me to call you people lazy?
nothing is as black and white as you all portray it. "America has done nothing but...." what kind of BS generalization is that? Really?
The news is worthless? Main stream media? All of it? Can't you take the time to pick out the truth from the lies or does that take too much work? Are people either bad or good and are they that all the time?
Your...and I mean all of you that have posted so far, have expressed narrow sound byte drivel, without acknowledging the complexity of the human condition just like a politician does.
The OP asked a good question, why do we support Israel and seem to give them a blank check on everything. How do we tolerate their spies.
Some do it because they are our proxy in the middle east. Some do it because the Bible says to do it and that God blesses those that protect his people and curse those that don't. (yeah, get a politician to admit that) Some people believe that if Israel goes then the end of times is upon us. Some people in high places are from Israel and even have dual citizenship and have held high government offices while holding this dual citizenship. Some do it to piss off the Muslims and Iran.
Some do it for all of the above reasons too. But what answer are you looking for?
My objective observation is that I am amazed that a group of people could be so hated for what 2000 years? That certainly doesn't hurt the case of perhaps thinking they might be a special group of people. I am not superstitious and I certainly don't take the Bible literally nor believe everything that is in there but I admit that I am one of those people that have to throw my hat in with the Jews and Israel. Maybe if they were just another ordinary race or country or group of people then I wouldn't, but my normal rational thinking self seems to be submissive when it comes to them. I mean I really can't stand the thought of giving some foreign country's spy a pass. I think it is even possible that some of them were in on 9/11. But even as I sit here in unexpected conflict, I honestly feel a loyalty to them.......now aint that some sheet. Not where this post was going but I'm leaving it as is. I feel as loyal to Israel as if it were the 51st state. I also feel like I am at an AA meeting and just introduced myself and said I was an alcholic......well, I am going to figure out why this is and if my early Christian indoctrination is responsible for this illogical position.
....um...excuse me now.

Damn I love it when you post and I agree and i HATE it when you post and I don't agree. Most of your posts I have had the good fortune of learning a thing or two and believe me, sometimes it was a hard pill to swallow as I am stubborn like that but when someone knows how to construct a logical argument while admitting he is at the mercy of a human intuition and unexplained gut feelings that I guess for me explain the same way I felt while reading your post and completely agreeing with it. I am convicted by you in some of the issues so many of us are guilty of here and I pray for a measure of some of that drop dead objectivity you possess and the logical mind to distinguish fact from fiction and real events from fantasy.

Thanks again for a great read and for yet another lesson in my path for surviving this life with as few of my own self delusions as possible including those I might accept from others had it not been for this post.

You make a dent Res,, and someone here felt it was worth making it public. So in keeping with that announcement, Ill say

Thank you

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


typical, pointing fingers saying "they did it first!". one act of violence dosent justify another.

reply to post by Wehali


I don't know what country you inhabit but I can almost garuantee that your ancestors brutally displaced an indiginous people so that they could inhabit their land. America isn't the only nation to be born out of the slaughter of innocent life. She just happens to be one of the more recent entries compared to the rest of the world. As for bringing darkness to the world, that too is only a recent manifestation of the political sickness that now infests our land. Since our founding some 300 years ago we have added much to the collective knowledge of the world and enacted many noble enterprises to rid the world of disease and pestilence. We have sent emmisaries around the world to educate the ignorant and heal the sick. Where foreign aid is concerned we have always been the most generous of nations. In point of fact you may owe your very existence to an act of intervention by my country that enabled one of your ancestors to survive. Has our government acted reprehensibly of late? Yes! Does that eradicate the many good works that this country has done on behalf of the citizens of planet Earth? No. I recognize that the disdain in your post is a result of a decade of Bushism but the ignorance of history, both ours and your own, makes your writings come off as ignorant and pompous. If demons we be then we are not alone. What has your country done to make this world a better place?