Originally posted by elliotuk90
israel forever

I highly doubt it Israel isn't known for it's "land sharing" attributes. And considering for the past 40 odd years you've been squatting in what was Palestinian land, I'm forecasting that your 'forever' stance will be overshadowed with heavy rocket downpours and torrential suicide bombings followed by warm bouts of militant resistance.

That is, until you guys smarten up a bit and realise you're just as much at fault of perpetuating violence as Hamas and chums are.

Of course those that support the cowardly terrorists would consider this girl's actions brave, but don't forget that this is a video production. The Israeli soldiers probably saw through their plan and left two soldiers to distract the camera person and the girl while the rest of the troops flanked the crowd of trouble makers with tear gas in the distance.

We don't know the circumstances. Were the troops wanting through to shut down a missile launching site? Were they on the trail of terrorists and being harassed by crowds of Hamas terrorists supporters?

Making this girl famous will give her a hero complex. The addiction to the fame will move her to get more involved in more dangerous situations. Eventually your encouragement and cheers will leave her DEAD, and it would be the fault of everyone that cheered her on.

I see nothing worth risking one's life for in this situation. She was stupid, not brave. Stupid because it was a waste of time to protect the ground that terrorists walk on and fire missiles from.

The credit goes to Israel soldiers who did not harm her. If that was Hamas terrorists and an Israeli woman she would have been swiss cheese before you could say "ouch"! One must not get in the way of Allah's troops you know!!


[edit on 7-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Exactly the same thing Jesus did...
...ideology of God-Man...
It is the Other World Jesus pointed to...
You think Jesus didn't know what awaits him?
...The true God is found in courage, not in petty calculating the odds.

Awww, we were having proper conversations about real issues and you had to go bring in made-up stuff!

Well, if you want the proof, there's the video.
When there's the video, it's "made up".

So, my dear skeptic, the only way you can find out about the truth is to do it yourself.
If you have the guts, that is...

Originally posted by elliotuk90


thats the close minded anti semitism im talking about!

Claims of anti-semitism are cheap. It's used so much that the term really doesn't hold weight anymore.

It's like someone that gets slapped wherever they go. Instead of admitting, "Hey, maybe it's something I'm doing." That person cries that nobody likes them. Usually where there's a string of same happenings, there is a common denominator.

The "proof of Jesus and Company" is whether you can do it or not.
But, one of Jesus' company did want to put his finger into the wound... Would doing that satisfy your curiosity?.


Blaming that girl that she was stupid, without experiencing the same, relying only on one's paranoid thoughts, that is exactly how the Evil Empire controls its subjects.
And justifying soldiers-slaves for what they do because they have to "bring food" to their families is utterly disgusting, but obviously efficient.

The idea that others have to die so your family can eat is very cannibalistic.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
The "proof of Jesus and Company" is whether you can do it or not.
But, one of Jesus' company did want to put his finger into the wound... Would doing that satisfy your curiosity?.

No, that's not very empirical -- I want a test that can be tested and re-tested in a lab with the same outcome!

Blaming that girl that she was stupid, without experiencing the same, relying only on one's paranoid thoughts, that is exactly how the Evil Empire controls its subjects.

Stupid, no - silly, yes. Doing what she did will have no effect, sorry to say.

And justifying soldiers-slaves for what they do because they have to "bring food" to their families is utterly disgusting, but obviously efficient.

Keeping in mind it's "soldier-slaves" who liberated Europe from Germany in WW2...

The idea that others have to die so your family can eat is very cannibalistic.

Only if you eat them it is...

[edit on 7-1-2009 by noonebutme]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
The "proof of Jesus and Company" is whether you can do it or not.
But, one of Jesus' company did want to put his finger into the wound... Would doing that satisfy your curiosity?.


Blaming that girl that she was stupid, without experiencing the same, relying only on one's paranoid thoughts, that is exactly how the Evil Empire controls its subjects.
And justifying soldiers-slaves for what they do because they have to "bring food" to their families is utterly disgusting, but obviously efficient.

The idea that others have to die so your family can eat is very cannibalistic.

I agree with your line of thought. The thing that is amazing to me, is when you stand up and shout out against innocent children, their families, the elderly and CIVILIANS getting bombed, shot at or harmed in any way, then you are automatically supporting terrorist leaders. The symbol of a person defending unarmed children is terrorism. These people are so brainwashed its unbelievable. CIVILIANS RULE ALL THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD DROOL, each and every one of them are terrorists including Bush. I support all children and their right to life, liberty, joy, happiness, peace, equality, education, health care, equalized income, good heritage foods, and creative empowering pursuits, to grow up and achieve true love, romance and great happiness, for Palestinians, Jews, Russians, Chinese, Africans, Native Americans and everyone.

You cannot politically make it incorrect to support people of all groups NOT GETTING SHOT AT, because you lose that argument on the basis of insanity.

Life "in vitro" - hmmm, only a scientist can come up with this one

Does that mean that life is not a fact unless it can be created in laboratory?
The ideology of empiricism does not hold water, I'm afraid.

This girl's deed did inspire many people, and although it can not be recreated in some skeptic's lab, it has the ability to make huge gaps in the fabric of history by showing the way for many people who oppose the immoral reality of the Evil Empire.

Remember, from which moment in history do we count time? That most certainly is the empirical fact, ain't it?

Originally posted by neformore
[
Stick to the topic please. Off topic posts WILL be removed.

[edit on 7 Jan 2009 by neformore]

I apoligize to everyone. I didnt even remember what I said, but obviously it was off topic and sucked. My bad.

On Topic now ::: I think that chick is brave, and she does sound very american to me.

I also think the soldiers acted professionally (at least while the camera was rolling)

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
As brave as that girl might be I really think that was very stupid of her.If there were no cameras then she would be dead.
If I was a soldier doing my job and she was in the way then I would just shoot her and carry on doing what I was paid and ordered to do.
Thats reality.War has no conscience.
I will admit that took some guts tho.

Of course, that's the answer of every coward soldier. "I'm doin' my job." If you really believed in Duty and Tradition you'd stand up against those that oppress others.
Cowardice disguised as 'duty' is still cowardice.

Two most common answers by Nazis at Nuremberg trial:

- It was my duty.

- I just followed orders.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Life "in vitro" - hmmm, only a scientist can come up with this one

Does that mean that life is not a fact unless it can be created in laboratory?
The ideology of empiricism does not hold water, I'm afraid.

This girl's deed did inspire many people, and although it can not be recreated in some skeptic's lab, it has the ability to make huge gaps in the fabric of history by showing the way for many people who oppose the immoral reality of the Evil Empire.

Remember, from which moment in history do we count time? That most certainly is the empirical fact, ain't it?

Well, yes, if can be, however for the sensitivity of some people I won't go into detail on *how* life can be 'produced' in a lab -- we'd need some music, Chardonney and a few pillows

[off-topic]
Your last line as to the fact our calendar coincides with year 0 being the birth of Jesus does not in itself lend evidence to his existence or his deeds.

I'm not saying Jesus didn't exist - far from it. I believe he did. But wasn't a deity or had magic powers - he was just a plain human]
[/off-topic]

In regards to the girl - yes standing up to the guard is a noble thing - but it won't change anything. No political figure in the Israeli govt is sitting in their chair weeping out of grief. No group of soldiers are stopping in their tracks, throwing down their weapons and retreating.

What she might accomplish, perhaps, is to inspire others to simply "stand" in someone's way - to which the soldier (on camera) moved her aside. Off camera I'm sure they would far more aggressive. Otherwise, she'll inspire people to take more extreme measures and self-detonate themselves to 'stop' soldiers.

I'm not saying what she did is wrong or she shouldn't do it - by all means stand up for what you believe and so what you think is right **. But this isn't a Hollywood film -- those in power won't be swayed by such acts of selflessness. Sadly, those in power are concerned with only that : power.

** And by the same token as that statement people will do exactly what they think is right, even if it's wrong, like taking over the land of the Palestinians, or firing rockets into the land of the oppressor, etc.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by noonebutme]

I apologize, it was my mistake. I meant Man-God as opposed to God-Man, which is at the core of the Christ idea.

The historical examples of Man-God are:
Alexander the Great
Augustus Cesar
Tamerlan
Napoleon
Hitler
Stalin

and the likes of them.

The girl most probably doesn't have an elaborate philosophy to explain what she did and to understand all possible consequences.

In my first post I stated that she is probably American and didn't have fear at first because she is not conditioned for this kind of situation. It is obvious from the video that very soon she was hit by adrenalin (a strike of fear), but then she was held on by the very inertia of the situation.

Of those soldiers, I think that they were probably experienced and would not shoot her or anybody else in that place unless they were in real trouble. They would've probably kicked her down or detained her because she was like an unstable factor in a usually stable (predictable) situation.