Debunking the 'Fake Jew' AKA The 'Khazarian Jew' Myth.

found this thing old thread and think it has lots of good info in it and thank the OP very much for putting all this together imm gonna keep this one handy for future posts on the issue star and flag all the way back to 2009

reply to post by AshleyD

The passage in Revelation is referring to theological belief, not physical ancestry

Lulz - How is one in a possion to judge what the Christ meant?

reply to post by AshleyD


Khazar Kagan letters indicate they also traced their lineage to Japheth, and that their people had originally come from Mt. Seir in Idumea, on the south border of Judea. So genetic markers should indicate exactly what you present.

“... Abd al-Rahman, Sultan of Cordova, in his letter to King Joseph of the Chazars (about 960 A.D.), ... speaks of the tradition according to which the Chazars once dwelt near the Seir Mountains.” (The Jewish Encyclopedia, 4:3.) Remember, the Seir was a mountain range south of the Dead Sea, the “Seir Mountains” being none other than the original land of Esau. “Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.” (Gen. 36:8.) Therefore, the Jews admit that the Chazar (Khazar) Jews are from Esau.

peopleofmtseir.blogspot.com...
The Herodian Jews at the time of Christ and the later destruction of Jerusalem under Titus were, of course, not of the tribe of Judah, but were primarily of Edom/Idumea (Esau) descent.
en.wikipedia.org...

Fast forward in time and the OP's debunk was debunked by Shlomo Sand, Israeli professor of history at Tel Aviv.

reply to post by AshleyD


So you are saying that because they have some genetic marker that gives them the right to commit crimes against humanity to the Palestinians.

reply to post by AshleyD


THX THX TONS

I knew simply on the basis of the Biblical record that the conspiracy was nonsense.

But it's very nice to see the DNA record.

It's persistently . . . slightly . . . interesting on ATS how so many seem to be utterly clueless about . . . drum roll . . .

authority.

Certainly ATTACHMENT DISORDER is epidemic across the globe.

And certainly AD results in all manner of folks being angry at authority figures far and wide of every stripe and certainly father figures.

However, without authority . . . there is chaos.

And those who are cheering most loudly for the trashing of Jews and Christians will find

that the global tyrannical satanic government intensifying its presence far and wide into every corner of the globe and into every corner of all our personal lives . . .

THAT AUTHORITY

will be MOST RUTHLESS, MERCILESS, DISPICABLE, EVIL, GENOCIDAL, DEMANDING, CONSTRICTING, FREEDOM-TRASHING etc. etc. etc.

They will discover that their worst tirades against Jews and Christianity--even inauthentic extrinsic pretend "Christianity" will turn out to have been mild compared to the looming and then implemented realities of the satanic global government DEMANDING LITERAL WORSHIP and human sacrifices to literal satan and his Beast and image.

Sadly, they have, as a result of their ATTACHMENT DISORDER PLUS their willful rebellions since and as an outgrowth thereof . . . they have a real disconnect and total lack of understanding of God's AUTHORITY and the loving nature and wisdom of it.

His treatment of the Jews is largely . . . in addition to it being an outgrowth of a covenant relationship Father to Son before the world began . . . His treatment of the Jews is largely His delight in and thanks to Abraham for Abraham's faith in and trust of Almighty God . . . such that God called Abraham His Friend.

Now THAT'S AUTHORITY.

And . . . that's one reason most of the Nobel science prizes by far have gone to Jews--WAYYYYYYYY out of proportion to their percent of the global population.

Anyway--thanks. Great OP.

Love seeing you around and miss it when you are too busy to post.

LUB

reply to post by th3dudeabides


Oh check your facts.

The so called Palestinians are factually Jordanians--hapless victims of . . . drum roll . . .

NOT ISRAEL but of their own Muslim Arab 'brothers' WHO REFUSED TO ALLOW THEM RESIDENCE IN JORDAN OR ANY OTHER SPARSELY POPULATED MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRY.

STRICTLY OUT OF GREED AND JEALOUSY OVER A TINY PLOT OF LAND THAT ISRAEL WAS MERCIFULLY ALLOWED TO

********************RETURN***************

TO

Historically, The Arabs cared nothing for Israel's land . . . it was super sparsely populated UNTIL Israel returned and began to make the desert bloom as Scripture predicted. Then the Arabs flocked there to work for the Israeli's and to coerce the world into rallying to their greedy and ignorant cause. A cause trumped up and created totally by Arabs.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Shlomo Sand successfully argues against your assertions, and yes he cites genetic evidence.

Antisemittic conspiracy theories in Haaretz

Study traces Ashkenazi roots to European women who probably converted to Judaism

The genetic analysis traced the lineage of many Ashkenazi Jews to four maternal founders in Europe.

www.haaretz.com...

Forward With antisemittic conspiracy theories..

In “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses,” published in December in the online journal Genome Biology and Evolution, Elhaik says he has proved that Ashkenazi Jews’ roots lie in the Caucasus — a region at the border of Europe and Asia that lies between the Black and Caspian seas — not in the Middle East. They are descendants, he argues, of the Khazars, a Turkic people who lived in one of the largest medieval states in Eurasia and then migrated to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries. Ashkenazi genes, Elhaik added, are far more heterogeneous than Ostrer and other proponents of the Rhineland Hypothesis believe. Elhaik did find a Middle Eastern genetic marker in DNA from Jews, but, he says, it could be from Iran, not ancient Judea.

Elhaik writes that the Khazars converted to Judaism in the eighth century, although many historians believe that only royalty and some members of the aristocracy converted. But widespread conversion by the Khazars is the only way to explain the ballooning of the European Jewish population to 8 million at the beginning of the 20th century from its tiny base in the Middle Ages, Elhaik says.


Read more: forward.com...

reply to post by Icarus Rising


I believe that it simply means "those who say they are religious, but who are not." Much like we can see members of any faith who claim to be holy, yet they conduct themselves in a manner completely contradictory to their so-called faith.

ETA: Dangit! I really need to check thread dates before I reply.

InvisibleOwl
ETA: Dangit! I really need to check thread dates before I reply.

edit on 13-4-2014 by InvisibleOwl because: (no reason given)

Nothing wrong with adding commentary to an existing thread, no matter how old it is. There are some real excellent threads that I love to see resurrected (no religious connotation intended) occasionally and this is one of them.

reply to post by AshleyD


I think the point your missing is the general jewish theme between the Zionist Satanists and the general Jewish population. Khazars or not, their flag is fiction and it pure occult. Therefore regardless of the direct history "Israel" is run by a Corporate Occult group and considered the State of Israel completely lacking everything told in the religious books. aka Israelites/Canaanites were not the ones their prophecy speaks of. Check the DNA analysis of Native Americans and other tribes around the world that scattered during different time periods, u will find those peoples are the original tribes of Judah and everything the modern state of Israel has cooked up is pure propaganda. Real "Jews" would not consider non jews to be Goyim and want them killed off for it. smh doesnt anybody watch youtube vids anymore? No offense OP, just saying, facts are more the just standard research and documentation, you have to go behind the scenes to find the answers from a land full of liars(apostate state).

The one little snippet you didn't red line that is very important to discussing this issue with actual intellectual honesty is:

'the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago"

This makes it quite clear that Palestinians et al are ALSO equally entitled to the land - if genetics are to be the only marker for a 'right to exist' policy. Again, Jews and Palestinians according to your own post, have a COMMON ancestral population group. Hard to ignore that one. This underlines the stance most opposing the SOI take that in asking us to accept what Israel does in Palestine, is asking us all to accept fratricide as 'ok'.
I for one can't accept that. Murder is murder.

I think few scholars biblical or otherwise would say to any individual human being or group ' you have no right to exist'. In the case of Zionist Israel however, what most people object to is the claiming of the other "rights" that have been claimed along side of that - the right to murder, imprison, intimidate, discriminate and bully another person or population, for not being 'like you' or for having the misfortune to have been born in a land their ancestors were born into that apparently, someone else thinks is there's by divine right.

I personally, would also question if these Zionist based policies and the push for state hood as a whole is actually of Jewish origin at all. Keeping mind that when discussing this issue, the clash between Zionist supporting Jewish and Zionist non supporting Jewish groups is still ongoing and can't just be brushed aside so easy.

History documents the rise of Zionism very very well as a political class but ultimately a trans-nationalist group of manipulative tyrants. It is also reasonable to assert that after the initial wave of immigration under the Balfour declaration, Jewish groups and Palestinians lived side by side in relative peace IN PALESTINE, until the Zionist invasions overtook their political subsystems and began to press influence on Jewish religious ideologues in country. As was noted even before the arrival in Palestine, Zionists in 1938 were already long considered collaborators with Nazi Germany by many Torah abiding Jewish people :

"The Krasner Rav testified that his father-in-law, the Shimloyer Rav, cried out before he was killed by the Nazis, "Only the wickedness of the Zionists has caused this! It happened to us because we did not protest against them enough." source

And now you ask people to support this same group in supporting the 'right to exist' of a Jewish state based on Zionist control, law and principles? I cant do that, not and be faithful to the principles of 'never again'. To support Zionist Israel is to support a new holocaust as far as I am concerned.

Worse, Zionists have claimed to be a hand of God..when the reality is that according to the Torah, the state of Israel (SOI) as it is, contradicts the Jewish belief that the messiah will come and afterwards all the Jews will return to the Holy Land. ie: the Jewish people will go there under the messiah's leadership not under the hand of political Zionism.
So they are then, at least to me and several million Jewish people, the ones written of that 'placed themselves in the position of God' .....with all that implies.

I guess too, that it may also be a case of who and how much you pay for the DNA results, as I've seen mitochondrial DNA studies that show the opposite to what you've written here, and have even posted on them here at one time. I will have to go look for that post and the studies all over again before writing in academical sense. I will though as this is important.

The old generation of posters here who knew this stuff inside out are slowly retiring or moving away from discussion of this issue and I can't sit idyly by to see a perhaps less informed generation of posters arriving here be manipulated unchallenged, by purveyors of 'new speak' and the plethora of Israeli uni students who, according to Jerusalem post itself, are being paid to write posts extremely similar to this one and push the Zionist agenda as wide and far as they can.


Rosha

Genetic evidence correlates with historical and religious belief that Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Judeans (mixed with Europeans).

It's ironic that most of the critics of Zionism that use the mistaken myth of Ashkenazi Jews Khazar origins to delegitimises Israel usually come from the most imperialist cultures of all;

Arabs - who colonized North Africa and the near east (and Iberia) and continue to suppress Kurds, Copts, Berbers and others
Turks - a central Asian tribe that colonized the Byzantine empire
Europeans - especially ironic is new world inhabitants criticising Israel whilst ignoring their own imperialism.

Judeans are indigenous to Judea. There was perhaps a tiny amount of Khazar admixture in Ashkenazi Jews though.
Arabs are indigenous to Arabia.

This said the majority of Palestinians are now proven to descend from Jews, Samaritans and Israelites rather than Arabs except for a foreign imperialist ruling class: www.theapricity.com.../

originally posted by: Rosha
The one little snippet you didn't red line that is very important to discussing this issue with actual intellectual honesty is:

'the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago"

This makes it quite clear that Palestinians et al are ALSO equally entitled to the land - if genetics are to be the only marker for a 'right to exist' policy. Again, Jews and Palestinians according to your own post, have a COMMON ancestral population group. Hard to ignore that one. This underlines the stance most opposing the SOI take that in asking us to accept what Israel does in Palestine, is asking us all to accept fratricide as 'ok'.
I for one can't accept that. Murder is murder.

I think few scholars biblical or otherwise would say to any individual human being or group ' you have no right to exist'. In the case of Zionist Israel however, what most people object to is the claiming of the other "rights" that have been claimed along side of that - the right to murder, imprison, intimidate, discriminate and bully another person or population, for not being 'like you' or for having the misfortune to have been born in a land their ancestors were born into that apparently, someone else thinks is there's by divine right.

I personally, would also question if these Zionist based policies and the push for state hood as a whole is actually of Jewish origin at all. Keeping mind that when discussing this issue, the clash between Zionist supporting Jewish and Zionist non supporting Jewish groups is still ongoing and can't just be brushed aside so easy.

History documents the rise of Zionism very very well as a political class but ultimately a trans-nationalist group of manipulative tyrants. It is also reasonable to assert that after the initial wave of immigration under the Balfour declaration, Jewish groups and Palestinians lived side by side in relative peace IN PALESTINE, until the Zionist invasions overtook their political subsystems and began to press influence on Jewish religious ideologues in country. As was noted even before the arrival in Palestine, Zionists in 1938 were already long considered collaborators with Nazi Germany by many Torah abiding Jewish people :

"The Krasner Rav testified that his father-in-law, the Shimloyer Rav, cried out before he was killed by the Nazis, "Only the wickedness of the Zionists has caused this! It happened to us because we did not protest against them enough." source

And now you ask people to support this same group in supporting the 'right to exist' of a Jewish state based on Zionist control, law and principles? I cant do that, not and be faithful to the principles of 'never again'. To support Zionist Israel is to support a new holocaust as far as I am concerned.

Worse, Zionists have claimed to be a hand of God..when the reality is that according to the Torah, the state of Israel (SOI) as it is, contradicts the Jewish belief that the messiah will come and afterwards all the Jews will return to the Holy Land. ie: the Jewish people will go there under the messiah's leadership not under the hand of political Zionism.
So they are then, at least to me and several million Jewish people, the ones written of that 'placed themselves in the position of God' .....with all that implies.

I guess too, that it may also be a case of who and how much you pay for the DNA results, as I've seen mitochondrial DNA studies that show the opposite to what you've written here, and have even posted on them here at one time. I will have to go look for that post and the studies all over again before writing in academical sense. I will though as this is important.

The old generation of posters here who knew this stuff inside out are slowly retiring or moving away from discussion of this issue and I can't sit idyly by to see a perhaps less informed generation of posters arriving here be manipulated unchallenged, by purveyors of 'new speak' and the plethora of Israeli uni students who, according to Jerusalem post itself, are being paid to write posts extremely similar to this one and push the Zionist agenda as wide and far as they can.


Rosha

Actually what it proves is that Islamic (Arab and Turkic) imperialism forced groups related to Jews to forget their true heritage and consider themselves "Arabs" when they are in fact Arabised Phoenicians, Samaritans, Israelites and Jews

originally posted by: Bigwhammy


The term Jew is a nationality not a race or religion. The religion is Judaism yet you can still be a Jew and Christian. Nationality and race are not the same thing. There are Jews of varying races, just like there are Americans of various races. For instance, Israel has brought many black Jews home from Ethopia.





[edit on 1/2/2009 by Bigwhammy]

Not entirely true. The term "Jew" is the English translation for a "Judean" eg a member of the tribe of Judah or inhabitant of Judea.

originally posted by: GoldenFleece
Why are the Khazars and the Khazarian Empire not mentioned in any history books?

Why have Jewish historians and authors like Arthur Koestler meticulously documented the Caucasian ancestry of Ashkenazim Jews if it wasn't true?

I think the OP is trying to re-write history.

Koestler wasn't a historian.

originally posted by: star in a jar
Well, why are the Zionists not looking for a homeland in modern-day Kharzia instead of 'going back' to the Middle East??

Rather interestingly enough I could not find a single hit on 'Kharzia' even though it was supposed to have been an kingdom back in the day.

This is incredibly strange. For an kingdom that never seemed to have existed, some scholars seem to have a lot of info on it

I have read accounts that only 10-20 percent of Israelis can claim ancestry to the area containing Israel, the rest are from abroad who came by the masses after WW2.

The point is... Why are the Zionists looking to expand their territory in the Middle East when they should be looking at the places the Nazis kicked them out of (Europe)

But I suppose we know what happens to countries who try to declare independence in Europe. They get a can of whoop-ass opened up on them.

But the Palestinians... they just have rocks and rifles and basic rockets.

The answer should be pretty obvious.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by star in a jar]

Maybe because you misspelt "Khazaria" for a start? An intellectual you ain't.

Funny how you fail to link to any of the "accounts" you read

The implication is if the Palestinians had more powerful weapons they'd be justified in using them according to you.

Arabs have sophisticated weaponry (but mainly use them on their own people eg Syria).

originally posted by: juiellineau
The fact that Yiddish was very popular among Jews before ww2 supports the argument that most of todays modern Jews have no genetic link to Abraham. But are in fact the offspring of the original Yiddish speakers-Khazarian. It's a valid point. I realize most modern "Jews" don't speak Yiddish today however, their parents probably did. I shouldn't have said 'most' in my last post. Some use this to point out that Israelis are not really Israelites.

Wtf? Khazars were Turks not Germans.

That's like claiming all blacks are from Europe because African-Americans speak English.