Okay ive joined ats because ive read over the last few days post after post bashing those `evil sadistic israeli murderers who are for no reason pounding poor innocent gazza`.

Now before i start... yes ive been to israel many times, i know theres many religions there from missionaries to christians to orthodox jews to people just living their lives... however ill call israel a jewish state because in general thats what it is.

Now im going to take you people on a small history lesson, so before you join your `boycot israeli goods` campaign every saturday, listen up REAL GOOD!

The israeli/jewish people have been treated like dog *** for thousands of years, just do historical research, from the crusaders, to the spanish inquisition, to the roman emperors to slavery in egypt (in no historical order)
They have been kicked from country to country, murdered, persecuted just for `being jewish` .... ask the average `nazi or anti semite` why do you hate jewish people... THEY DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER... you`ll get the odd person give some propeganda rubbish about them being `greedy` or `they killed jesus) but there is no reason whatsoever why for thousands of years the jewish people have been trodden on like dog ***.
And everything i am saying here is historical facts, in fact ive probbaly put it nicely as there are far far far more examples of how theyve been treated like garabage, but the most important one is the second world war where SIX MILLION children adults etc etc were stufed in carts and GASSED TO DEATH... now 60 or so years ago or not theres no `oh move on`... sorry there is no excuse for six million people being killed!
Now the 2 or 3 years of the `final solution`.. which is basically what adolf hitlers gassing of the jews was called, NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

Israel finally has its own legal state, finally for the first time in jewish history they have somewhere to live.... and they are damn sure not giving it away or losing it to anyone!

Look around the middle east almost every country there hates israel, and would rip it apart like angry wolves if they could, its only because america is on its side that israel has the `luck` of still surviving!

For many years, there have been sucide bombers killing people in israel, in market places, stations, etc etc (im sory but theres NO JUSTIFICATION for going into a crowded market place and shouting `jihad` and blowing yourself up.. NOTHING.. no `well you have to look at the causes for doing this` .. SORRY nothing justifies it!
And yes there has been the odd barrage of attacks back by Israel, but as a whole it has been VERY patient and whereas america would launch a full out war on a neighbouring country who fire on it, well israel has put up with katusha rockets being fired into it DAILY for a couple of decades at least and they have finally lost their patience! Dont give me the `eye for the eye` garbage... somebody punches you in the face, you punch them back, or if you dont have a short temper you let it go.. however when they keep pounding and pounding, you have no choice but to retaliate TO PROTECT YOURSELF!

Next, id like to adress the whole `poor innocent plestinian citizens being hit scenario`
Yes war has casualties, its a sad fact.. HOWEVER
its a known fact that islamic terrorists HIDE AMONGST civilian areas, shops, mosques etc, this my friend is a fact!
They usually use civilian areas to hide and cower away, they do the same in iraq afghanistan, this is what makes soliders task to difficult as its sometimes literally goes down to house to house searches!
Second of all the old propoganda material.. the `always having a funeral taking place just when the bbc are around`, the `childs shoe which conviently seems to be placed on top of the rubble next to the toy bear` which also conveniently seems to be just in the shot when the camera shows the `devestation` etc etc....
(continued)...

(continued)

next, these islamic countries who who WALLOW IN SELF PITY ABOUT how the entire world is out to harm them, when they themselves practicaly own virtually the entire middle east bar israel. They care so much about their brother muslims` that they torture and have NO respect for each other, and have death/mutilation penaulties for things such as homosexuality or stealing!


So, in closing......... yes nothing justifies civilians being killed
but if you look at the FACTS... not what some guy working in a kebab shop says
youll see israel have EVERY DAMN right to defend themselves, this land is ALL they have and they are going to fight to the last damn tooth to defend it

i welcome all replies but if your going to be imature please dont bother

[edit on 30-12-2008 by plejarenentity]

[edit on 31-12-2008 by plejarenentity]

Originally posted by plejarenentity
NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

Israel finally has its own legal state, finally for the first time in jewish history they have somewhere to live.... and they are damn sure not giving it away or losing it to anyone!

There is a lot of history between those two statements.
Also thanks for your version of history I agree with some of it, not all! and a lot here will not!



[edit on 30-12-2008 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by plejarenentity
not what some greasy haired guy working in a kebab shop says

Welcome to ATS. Good luck with that when you use stereotypes such as this.

Originally posted by plejarenentity
(continued)

next, these islamic countries who `care so much about their brother muslims` that they torture and have NO respect for each other, and have death/mutilation penaultioes for things such as homosexuality or stealing... who WALLOW IN SELF PITY ABOUT how the entire world is out to harm them, when they themselves practicaly own virtually the entire middle east bar israel.


So, in closing......... yes nothing justifies civilians being killed
but if you look at the FACTS... not what some greasy haired guy working in a kebab shop says
youll see israel have EVERY DAMN right to defend themselves, this land is ALL they have and they are going to fight to the last damn tooth to defend it

i welcome all replies but if your going to be imature please dont bother

Again, it's extremely pointless to fight over imaginary lines in the sand.....And that land was GIVEN to them by the USA and the rest of the Security Council at the UN. They pushed the palestinians out of they're land (by there's i mean that's where they were) and then did to them what the Nazi's did during WWII.

Israel needs to look at the atrocities commited against them in the past, and look at what they're doing to Gaza. They would fine some strickinly eerie similarities.

Originally posted by plejarenentity
Now the 2 or 3 years of the `final solution`.. which is basically what adolf hitlers gassing of the jews was called, NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

I hope you don't mind me stepping in here but my Grandfather joined the British forces before Canada went to war. He transferred later. He was an engineer. Dozer specifically. He was one of the first to reach the camps. I take exception to that. He would too if he was still here.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by plejarenentity
Now the 2 or 3 years of the `final solution`.. which is basically what adolf hitlers gassing of the jews was called, NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

I hope you don't mind me stepping in here but my Grandfather joined the British forces before Canada went to war. He transferred later. He was an engineer. Dozer specifically. He was one of the first to reach the camps. I take exception to that. He would too if he was still here.

in the end the concentration camps were liberated yes, but the first few things nothing was done..

i think your going off the point, many people seem to have just focused on one point ive mentioned, nobody is taking heed of the general message that israel have every right to defend themselves

I don't want anyone to throw a shoe at me, but aren't these semites against semites? I thought everyone in that region are considered semitic.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by phinubian]

Originally posted by plejarenentity
i think your going off the point, many people seem to have just focused on one point ive mentioned, nobody is taking heed of the general message that israel have every right to defend themselves

It's kind of hard to take heed of your general message when you refer to Arabs as greasy haired people working in a kebob shop.

Originally posted by nyarlathotep

Originally posted by plejarenentity
i think your going off the point, many people seem to have just focused on one point ive mentioned, nobody is taking heed of the general message that israel have every right to defend themselves

It's kind of hard to take heed of your general message when you refer to Arabs as greasy haired people working in a kebob shop.

Point, Set, Match!

Originally posted by plejarenentity
NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

Israel finally has its own legal state, finally for the first time in jewish history they have somewhere to live.... and they are damn sure not giving it away or losing it to anyone!

There is a lot of that going around over the past 30 years.

What about the Palestinian's rights to their own country, to life etc. ??

I understand where you are coming from with your perspective and it is correct in many ways except for the simple fact that from the formation of Israel to its current position on the world stage.. It has been brutal and has committed a huge amount of ethnic cleansing.

This is the main reason why people do not like the Israeli leadership and policies.. that doesn't make them anti Semitic or Jew haters.

[edit on 30/12/08 by Dermo]

Now might it have anything to do with the insie winsie fact that the Palestine does not ave a recolonized country and all the things that happened to the poor jews - well there now doing it to the Palestnes Very good learners.
Please no offense stay ff the glue before postings :-P
kx

Hmm interesting perspective. A couple of ironies. First off that evil Hitler gassing all the Jews killed 60 million citizens 6 million of them being Jews. Second Hitler needed money to go on his rampage and where do you think Hitler got that money? Well look no further than the international Jewish financiers. Yes even after they knew he was killing his own people. Sad isnt it?

Not only did Hitler gas the Jews he took them all and sent them to ghettos where he starved them and deprived them of all aid. There were a few Jewish uprisings but everyone quelled full force by Hitler. The Jewish uprisings were looked on as provocations. Who are those evil Jews to defend themselves from being starved to death? Now look at what is happening now to the Palestinians who too have been sent to ghettos and being starved. Who are those "evil" Palestinians to cause Israel to have to bomb them to death. They dont need food, they dont need medical, they dont need other basic necessities they need to sit back and shut up and if they are lucky Israel will give them some scraps to feed on. We here on ATS are a smart bunch and we know history well. I recommend you look into other points of view on the historical front than some of the garbage being fed to you.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by tjeffersonsghost]

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Hmm interesting perspective. A couple of ironies. First off that evil Hitler gassing all the Jews killed 60 million citizens 6 million of them being Jews. Second Hitler needed money to go on his rampage and where do you think Hitler got that money? Well look no further than the international Jewish financiers. Yes even after they knew he was killing his own people. Sad isnt it?

Not only did Hitler gas the Jews he took them all and sent them to ghettos where he starved them and deprived them of all aid. There were a few Jewish uprisings but everyone quelled full force by Hitler. The Jewish uprisings were looked on as provocations. Who are those evil Jews to defend themselves from being starved to death? Now look at what is happening now to the Palestinians who too have been sent to ghettos and being starved. Who are those evil Palestinians to cause Israel to have to bomb them to death. They dont need food, they dont need medical, they dont need other basic necessities they need to sit back and shut up and if they are lucky Israel will give them some scraps to feed on. We here on ATS are a smart bunch and we know history well. I recommend you look into other points of view on the historical front than some of the garbage being fed to you.

Wait sor your saying Palestinians should just deal? That Israel is allowed to carry on it's own genocide campaing.

(Just trying to understand your point)