Why is southern pride considered racism?

Yes, that is the only explanation we were given while we were in school. The sad part is they didn't even go into other reasons here in the south they just gave us the old song and dance about slavery.

reply to post by dooper


Shouldn't really matter though. Because if you explain that this other flag was also used by the confederats than you would be back to the it stands for hate.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's the "God Hates Fags" and "Damn them N Word's" rethoric that the media portray that holds it back.

For the record, the "God hates fags" signs are from the Westboro Baptist church which resides in the north.

As for the good folks talking down about the stars and bars, so far they have no clue as to what they speak.

This is the Stars and Bars:





And it is the official flag of the confederacy. This is what flew above the capitol of the Confederate states.


The battle flag is what everyone seems to get there shorts in a bunch over. This is the battle flag.





The battle flag was for the soldiers in the field, not the politicians back at the capitol.

The battle flag has my upmost respect for it was for the soldiers who answered the call when their country called upon them. There is no shame in that.

Originally posted by mrwupy

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's the "God Hates Fags" and "Damn them N Word's" rethoric that the media portray that holds it back.

For the record, the "God hates fags" signs are from the Westboro Baptist church which resides in the north.

As i said that's the media's protrayal of what goes on, i obviously don't think that all southern people are like that, that would be ignorant.

reply to post by mrwupy


Thank you Mrwupy for posting the different flags, I should have done that, but didn't really think about it.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by Ant4AU]

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Slavery,as abhorent a situation as it was,was not what the civil war was fought about.The common misconception is that everybody in the south owned slaves.That is far from the truth.At that time a work mule would cost you $20,land sold for around $.25 an acre and a slave would cost around $1,000. That would be close to a million dollars in todays money.
Had everyone in the south been multi-millionairs,the north would never have won the war.
Do a little research into the reasons for secession of the states.Not just what they feed you in public school.Look up the congressional records from the mid-1850's.See where the federal government took away the soverignty of the states in these united states.
Southern pride is justified simply by the fact that the south left the union to point out the best thing about the union.The state's right to tend to it's own affairs,without federal oversight.
Look where we are now.Everybody answers to the federal government.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


The principal crop of the south was cotton.Where did that cotton get refined into textiles? That's right,the north.The northern states benefited from slavery.Oh my perish the thought.The real problem began when the northern textile mills refused to pay a marketable price for cotton.The northern congressmen (textile mill owners) who out numbered southern congressmen.passed a cotton tarrif.The south could sell their cotton to England for twice what the northern mills were willing to pay.But with the double tax on cotton exports it would have cost the cotton growers to export their cotton.They would have had to pay to sell their cotton!!
That's where the civil war started.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens said [12][13] that slavery was the chief cause of secession in his Cornerstone Speech shortly before the war. After Confederate defeat, Stephens became one of the most ardent defenders of the Lost Cause. There was a striking contrast between Stephens' post-war states' rights assertion that slavery did not cause secession and his pre-war Cornerstone Speech. Confederate President Jefferson Davis also switched from saying the war was caused by slavery to saying that states' rights was the cause. While Southerners often used states' rights arguments to defend slavery, sometimes roles were reversed, as when Southerners demanded national laws to defend their interests with the Gag Rule and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850. On these issues, it was Northerners who wanted to defend the rights of their states.

[12] From Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, March 21, 1861, The Athenaeum, Savannah Georgia - Stephens said: 'African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization ... was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right.'

[13] From Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, March 21, 1861, The Athenaeum, Savannah Georgia The larger Stephens quote, for more context, is as follows: 'The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew." Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.

Spin has been around for hundreds of years.

The south seceded due to federal interference in the slavery issue. They felt that the loss of income would ravage their economy, thus secession and civil war.


[edit on 12/30/2008 by clay2 baraka]

www.youtube.com...


Notice the Flag?
Personally I could care less what flag anyone wants to fly. I'm fond of
the Skull and crossbones.

But Perhaps the video might shed some light on why the Battle flag is
associated with the KKK and the accompanying racism.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by mrwupy


Only problem is you forgot that the Stars and Bars were only flown from March 5, 1861 to May 26, 1863. After that other flags were adopted that featured the Battle Flag in some way.

"During the Civil War, many Southern states left the Union. These Confederate or "Rebel" states wanted their own flag to fly. The first Rebel flag that flew over the Confederacy, was the Bonnie Blue. The Bonnie Blue was never adopted by the confederacy, but it was loved by the people. Officially, the first Rebel flag was the Stars and Bars. The Stars and Bars flew from March 1861 to May of 1863. Unfortunately this Rebel flag looked too much like the Union's Stars and Stripes. The Confederate states decided to look further for a more unique design.
The best-known Rebel flag was the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the "Southern Cross". The Battle flag was carried by Confederate troops during battle. So, on May 1st,1863, the second Confederate flag design was adopted, placing the Battle Flag as the canton on a white field. It was named the Stainless Banner. This Rebel flag was mistaken for a truce flag in calm weather, since it would just hang with mostly white showing. This led the Confederacy to create the third Official Rebel flag. On March 4th,1865, a new pattern was adapted. It was the same as the previous design, but with a wide, red stripe on the fly end. The third flag did not last long, since the war came to an end. It was called the Last Confederate flag."

arebelflag.net...

Bonnie Blue
arebelflag.net...

Stars and Bars
arebelflag.net...

Battle Flag
arebelflag.net...

Stainless Banner
arebelflag.net...

The Last Confederate Flag
arebelflag.net...

Here our the flags and what years they were used. Now we will not be able to trick you with flying a different flag.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by Ant4AU]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not be religious of anything, cause i'm not but...

The sins of the father, become the sins of the son.

People just aren't gonig to forget what the confederacy wanted or stood for during those times, i understand that it is not the view held by most southerners in these times but the world does not easily forget.

Uh, people do forget.

At the time the catalyst for the war was how much power went to the individual states, and how much went to the Fed. That was the REAL issue, slavery was just the argument around which it was wrapped.

The Southern states beleived that they should have the right to set laws as they pleased and, if they did not want to conform, would have the right to withdraw from the union if they chose.

The NOrthern states, and the Fed, beleived that the Union was insoluable.

It all depends on how you are proud of the South.

Unfortunately, the Southern identity is intertwined with slavery, segregation, and other forms of racism. Certain symbols of southern pride like the Confederate flag, only re-inforce the South's ties to these evils.

On the other hand, one can be proud of being from the south if they celebrate the non-racist aspects of Southern culture. The South's has a colorful dialect, a rich literary history, and a genteel culture. Perhaps one can celebrate these things, as well as other aspects of Southern culture while at the same time renouncing racism.

reply to post by Ant4AU


Every school boy should know that "State's Rights" was the Southern Battle cry. It would be naive to suggest, however, that the pro-slavery agenda did not play a pivotal role in the formation of the confederacy. Afterall, "state's rights" seems to be more of an academic doctrine than something men would fight one history's bloodiest wars over.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint

On the other hand, one can be proud of being from the south if they celebrate the non-racist aspects of Southern culture. The South's has a colorful dialect, a rich literary history, and a genteel culture. Perhaps one can celebrate these things, as well as other aspects of Southern culture while at the same time renouncing racism.

I may take some flames for this but here in Texas (neither south nor west) I notice that different ethnicities tend to sepparate themselves.

There are lots of Mexican and South American neighborhoods, Asian neighborhoods, some entire towns around San Antonio that are almost exclusively German, and a smattering of Cajun towns around the northern coast.

Although some of these neighborhoods are violent, and in some cases populated by illegals, I think it's very nice to have these places where people retain an distinct culture. I would hate to see them blended into oblivion, in the n ame of integration. I do think that some people from some more Northern areas see things like this in the South and assume that it means segregation.

reply to post by asmeone2


It is sad to say that simply just having pride in your heritage and culture just about makes you racist this day and age. A lot of people would rather gather around their culture and be proud of where they came from. It is bad that as long as it is not an all white neighborhood than the racist card is never pulled. Sometimes society makes you think that only the "white man" is racist and that is a joke.

reply to post by asmeone2


I think it is safe to say that the segregation you describe exists all over the US and all over the world. In California, we have ethnic enclaves.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not be religious of anything, cause i'm not but...

The sins of the father, become the sins of the son.

People just aren't gonig to forget what the confederacy wanted or stood for during those times, i understand that it is not the view held by most southerners in these times but the world does not easily forget.

Uh, people do forget.

At the time the catalyst for the war was how much power went to the individual states, and how much went to the Fed. That was the REAL issue, slavery was just the argument around which it was wrapped.

The Southern states beleived that they should have the right to set laws as they pleased and, if they did not want to conform, would have the right to withdraw from the union if they chose.

The NOrthern states, and the Fed, beleived that the Union was insoluable.

Thank you A2 for stating this so clearly. Here's a statement that I believe backs up your statement, it shows that Lincoln was not interested in helping the slaves, it was just a PR move to cover the stances outlined in your post.

Source: www.progressiveu.org...

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, not to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having that superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (Lincoln-Douglas debates, Sept 18, 1858)

I don't agree with the above quote, not at all. Just wanted to show people Lincoln's mindset. He was a true politician in every sense (a total hypocrite), hide the ball and wrap it up in a completely different meaning. The war was over states' rights, slavery was a cover . And once again I state that I'm not rascist or pro-slavery, very far from it, I'm simply stating what I was taught by my college professors.

I'm proud to be from the South and always will be. Oh, and for the record my husband's family has records showing that their slaves were given freedom but chose to stay they were like family.


[edit on 12/30/2008 by seentoomuch]

I would just like to applaud all who have contributed so far for actually having a debate and not going into a race war. Your comments are informative and it is interesting to see different view points. I only hope that this thread stays this way.

Why is southern pride considered racism?

It's due entirely to liberal, elitist ignorance and snobbery. The same group of people that think it's "progressive" and "enlightened" behavior to vote for a black man like Obama, solely based on the color of his skin and not on his qualifications (Gob bless Dr. King), would also condemn you as "racist" or "bigoted" for not doing the same. How is it that when 95% of blacks vote democrat, it's OK. But when 51% of white voters vote for a white candidate, it's called a "hate crime"?

I grew up in liberal Southern California, but I've also lived in Texas, South Carolina and Alabama. As a whole, the folks in the southeast are far more genteel, kind-hearted and cultured than the self-absorbed, self-important, left coasters.

The educated folks in the south don't refer to the war between the states as the "Civil War". They refer to it as the "War for Southern Independence".