Why is southern pride considered racism?

riiiiight...."according to "your" version of history."....


the british empire illuminati etc caused the civil war.. schism to halter the advance of an incredible country.

you wanna be all tough an good ol' boy go do it man.. you're just being a little puppet pawn planned years before your birth.
you have no idea as to where the real origins of the confederacy originated... so go on being a lil juvinile outburst on the internet for all the uneducated "southern pride means its okay to combine with racist imagery" white trash to chime in on with.
makes for good comedy.

you don't know who the "man" is.
you don't know who you're NOT bowing down to.

just stop.
you're really making a fool of yourself.

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reply to post by prevenge

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You must have been beat up by some skin heads, or just had some ass in your family from the south. Dude what ever happened to you I am sorry, we are having a good discussion here so just piss of if you are not going to contribute. Wow, there really is nothing you can talk about without some one bringing up the illuminati. Just stay in your hole and everything will be ok.

reply to post by daddyroo45

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Where are you getting those figures? I'm sure I'll get abused for this but we have records of slave purchases and the cost of a slave was less than two pounds of bacon.

I'm proud of my southern aristocratic roots. We are still in touch with the descendants of the slaves that my ancestors owned. My family GAVE them property and real estate so that they had a place to live AND had additional real estate to rent for income. THEY attribute their success to my families generosity as it allowed the last several generations to easily afford college and have many opportunites that they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Not all slave owners were horrible and abusive, as a matter of fact, many of them were far more generous to their slaves than they were ever given credit for. They felt a personal responsibility to ensure that their former slaves were taken care of and provided for but you never hear about those stories.

Jemison


[edit on 31-12-2008 by Jemison]

My edit didn't show up.

OP, does the AU stand for Auburn University? I attended U of Bama for a few years so I just have to say "roll tide".

Also, Tuscaloosa is home to the "Jemison house". One of many historical homes in the South that are part of my family history.

historictuscaloosa.com...

Jemison

Some responses in this thread have compared flying the Confederate flag with flying the swastika. There is a huge difference between the two. The swastika did not represent the German people, it represented a political party. There was still a German flag during the Nazi regime that represented the German nation.

As for the slavery issue, yes it was a wrong and terrible thing. That was a different time and place and the world's values were changing. The slavery issue was not as important of an issue to the Northerners or Southerners as it is to us today. You can bet the Northern Army was not fighting for black peoples benefit as much their financial future. The secession of the Southern states hurt the north's industry.

Those who find it racist are letting their ignorance show. Slavery wasn't about race; there were slaves who were not black. It was about social status. At the time, the social status of slavery tended to be attached to blacks because they came from less advanced cultures where their enemies (who were also black) sold them into slavery. Slavery was part of a socio-economic order in the past, not some hateful atrocity, and the south supported it because the entire economy of the south was based upon it. The wealth of the south was in slaves, not banks, unlike the north. The Emancipation Proclamation was designed to cripple the South economically, more than anything else, and it was successful. So successful that there are large parts of states like Alabama that look pretty much like a third world country.

Tell me, if someone came and took all your wealth, your LEGAL wealth, and gave you no compensation, wouldnt you be angry? Every slave had a price for freedom, and it went unpaid. As rampant poverty struck the south as a result of all of this, who do you expect the locals to blame for their fall? A slave was not going to be free in their eyes until the wages of their freedom had been paid.

People need to get past their ignorance of history and become able to look at things through the lens of past social orders. Remember, too, that most of those slaves who were sold into slavery and brought to the Americas actually got a better life here than they would have had back in Africa. After all, if they hadn't been worth anything in the meat market, they would have been killed outright. Understand that, just because it offends your sensibilities, you cannot ignore reality.

If slaves were treated so nicely? even some of them? Then answer me this.

why did thousands of black slaves immediately join the army to help fight for their brothers freedoms!

propaganda is good but cmon! those people lived it.... you cant trick someone who was there!

if thousands joined the army to fight the south they mustve had some good reason to risk their lives.

correct me if im wrong.

(on a side note they may have done it for fresh food and water and wages? but that doesnt seem like a good enough reason to go into one of the deadliest wars of the era)

Oh, i didn't mean to imply that there weren't, but that for some reason people view them differently whether they are in the North or South.

reply to post by Jemison

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The decendents of the black families that were attached to my family before the war.Attended family reunions with us when I was a child.I remember the lady we all called Aunt Callie she was 96 years old in 1960. She remembered the first years after the war,and related stories told to her from her father,of the relations between our families.
As far as the cost of $1000 for a slave.That was a premium reserved for the finest and fittest.

reply to post by dooper

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Were the slaves that went North, to the free states treated with respect? They were treated worse than the ones that decided not to leave the south. They were hated by the Northern People, and were put into slavery with a different name. But in reality it was still slavery. They were worked and their pay was a shack and food which was not of the best quality. They were not treated with very much respect. And if the Union had such a noble cause as freeing the slaves and punishing the South. Why then did General Sherman march on Atlanta burn it to the ground, rape the Black Slave Women, and kill the Black Men? I am a Southerner I love the south and all the people in it. And I for one say it would not be the South without both people Black and White. That is what makes this such a wonderful place. Just because we still hold on to the Stars and Bars does not mean that we are a bunch of racist idiots. Their were also Black Soldiers that fought for the Stars and Bars. I am not saying that slavery was right it wasn't. General Robert E. Lee did not approve of slavery,at all he was against slavery. He like most of Southerners loved the land that he lived on and swore to protect it from aggression from the Union State. Southern Pride is not a bad thing. We love our Southern Heritage NOT HATE.

reply to post by sciencenewby

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um because the north gave them freedom without having to pay for it?? Say youre a poor nobody...and someone came along and said they would make you a billionaire elite, if you fought for them...most people would jump at that, too. A chance to change their social status for the price of going to war.

All in all, your reply doesnt seem to even show a grasp of historical social structure, or the very concept of social structure at all.

reply to post by Jemison

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Weagle Weagle Weagle War Damn Eagle. Wow this stuff is great I am finding out things that I didn't know. I am glad to see that there are more people that feel the same as I. Thank you all for your comments.

It has been awhile since I read any history but here goes.

The Civil War was not at all about slavery in the beginning. It was about States Rights, meaning that the Constitution was saying that the States held the power, not the federal government.

It did not become a war over slavery until the Emancipation Proclimation was given. That in itself was an economic weapon designed to reduce the agricultural exports of the south which was the only export the south had.

Most of the southern population was poor and had no slaves, but would have faced criticism and charges of cowardice if they had not gone to war with their neighbors.

As someone who lives in the South and had ancestors fight for both sides I am proud to be an American. That being said I choose to live in the South for a multitude of reasons that have nothing to do with racism. The thing I am most proud of is the FACT that there seems to be a disproportionate number of Southerners enlisted in the military and has been for many generations.

reply to post by OhZone

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You can't be serious! Slavery was and is evil, man had and still has no right to own another. Being considered property and having your children sold away from you, rape by the owners and then they were so sick they enslaved their own children.

It is unfortunate that the Confederate Flag is associated with slavery, but that is just the way it is. The South wanted to removed itself from the Union of States so they could continue to profit from the blood, sweat and tears of men and women. I find that flag as offensive as the Nazi symbol.

reply to post by redhead57

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Have you even read this thread or researched. Slavery was not the reason. Please do a little more research.

Please read Clay2Baraka's post which shows a quote from the Confederate President in his "Cornerstone" speech which clearly states that it is about slavery and that blacks are inferior. Page 2

Sounds a lot like the Lincoln quote.

reply to post by redhead57

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Every culture has endured slavery to a different culture at some point in history. The Bible is replete with reference to slaves and how they are supposed to treat their masters and vice versa.Life is a learning process,200 years ago slavery was common place world wide.We as the human race have learned slavery is wrong. Just because the institution of slavery is found unpaletable today,doesn't mean the people in those days weren't following cultural standards of the day.
Two hundred years ago young girls 10-12 years old would be considered marriage material.That was a common practice that would not be acceptable by todays standards. Had your great great great grandfather married a 12 year old girl would that make you a child molester?
My point is, time marches on.I have never been a slave to another nor have I ever held another as a slave.I'd be willing to bet that there is no one born in this country that has ever kept a slave or been a slave.
When will the stupitidy cease? In this country people are responsible for their own actions.Not their fore fathers actions.

Source: www.progressiveu.org...



[edit on 12/30/2008 by seentoomuch]

I think it may have to do with your definition of "Southern Pride."

I'm proud of being a Southerner (Texan.) I'm proud of the heritage of my state, proud of our hospitality and warm friendliness. I'm proud that we are the sort of folks who will stop to help someone stranded on a road or offer assistance to someone in any kind of trouble. I love the silly traditions like eating blackeyed peas on New Year's (most of the stores are out of blackeyed peas right now... I know, because I went to buy 'em.)

I'm not particularly proud (or disappointed) at the gun ownership, because "fightin' with weapons" is something that was part of a more distant culture. I'm not proud of the racism that was in the past or the slave ownership. I'm proud that the state has gotten over that and we see people of all races and cultures in many important positions.

I don't display a Confederate flag for pride, but I do wear "Proud to be a Texan" shirt and I do have state pins (from state parks) that I wear. And I do have a selection of cowboy hats that I love to wear.

There's many ways to show your pride in your heritage and your culture. If an offensive symbol is the ONLY way you can express your pride in your culture, maybe you should stop and think why it's so important to you that you simply can't express your pride with a more positive symbol.