Why is southern pride considered racism?

This I have wandered for many years growing up here in the south. If you are white and you display a confederate flag you’re automatically labeled a racist. When I see the confederate flag I am filled with southern pride, not because I want slavery, not because I believe I am superior to any else, but because I see it as symbol for a group of people who didn’t bow down to the “Man”. People who would rather fight and die than give up their beliefs. And don’t call me naive for my view.

Like I said, I am from the south and I love it. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. Moderately clean air nice people, less oppressive police officers. I have several friends that are “Damn Yankees” / you know the Yankees that want go back/ and said that they have never lived in places where, for the majority, the people were nicer willing to help out any time, or in any way possible. These are the reasons I am filled with southern pride and am deeply offended when I show my southern pride with wearing or displaying an confederate flag.

Now I know I will be considered a racist, and if you are that close minded and can not see where I am coming from than you can piss off. I know that yes the south wanted slavery, southern states initiated the Jim Crow Laws, but if that is your only excuse than save it. Now I am not trying to offend any one here I sincerely apologize if that happens. I simply would just like to here others opinions on this idea.

Thank you, ANT

Not be religious of anything, cause i'm not but...

The sins of the father, become the sins of the son.

People just aren't gonig to forget what the confederacy wanted or stood for during those times, i understand that it is not the view held by most southerners in these times but the world does not easily forget.

Alot of hardships and human rights violations were done then, what do you expect people to remember?

I dont wanna sound mean or anything, i have family from the south and they're great people, and they help the image of the south. It's the "God Hates Fags" and "Damn them N Word's" rethoric that the media portray that holds it back.

Are people who fly Nazi flags racist? One could argue that Hitler stood up to the powers that be and lifted a nation out of poverty and despair.

Except for that tricky holocaust thing. .

The south stood up against the powers that be and maintained an economic system and wealth for their homeland. A system based on enslaving and many times killing other human beings.

You can take pride in that,
Except for that tricky slavery thing. .

[edit on 12/30/2008 by clay2 baraka]

I totally understand your views about liking the Confederate Flag. In addition to representiting oppression of blacks and slavery, it represents Freedom, rebelion, and standing up to the power.

I like that, but the thing is, people immediately take to it and make natural assumptions like:

Confederate Flag=Pro Slavery
Only 20% of Southern Population owned slaves, but most of them who died and fought in the civil war did not own any slaves

Confederate Flag=Hatred, Racism, KKK
False, the Confederates were an independent gov't, that almost won recognition by Brittan, France, and Spain through their Cotton Diplomacy, but it failed

The Flag only represents the gov't.

If they want to rant about something, how bout the KKK?

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
I totally understand your views about liking the Confederate Flag. In addition to representiting oppression of blacks and slavery, it represents Freedom, rebelion, and standing up to the power.

I like that, but the thing is, people immediately take to it and make natural assumptions like:

Confederate Flag=Pro Slavery
Only 20% of Southern Population owned slaves, but most of them who died and fought in the civil war did not own any slaves

Confederate Flag=Hatred, Racism, KKK
False, the Confederates were an independent gov't, that almost won recognition by Brittan, France, and Spain through their Cotton Diplomacy, but it failed

The Flag only represents the gov't.

If they want to rant about something, how bout the KKK?

I completely agree, i don't think it's right that all of things are associated with the flag, it should only represent the values that had merit, such as standing up to government and wanting to be independant by providing for themselves.

Unfortunetly thats not the way the majority of people see it.

If you are white and you display a confederate flag you’re automatically labeled a racist. When I see the confederate flag I am filled with southern pride, not because I want slavery, not because I believe I am superior to any else, but because I see it as symbol for a group of people who didn’t bow down to the “Man”. People who would rather fight and die than give up their beliefs.

Which were what, exactly?

They killed for the right to keep and profit from slaves.

That's why. You don't see a whole bunch of SS flags either.

Why, among any other symbols of southern pride, do such people consistently always want THAT one? There's a reason for it, and other people don't like that reason.

Originally posted by mbkennel

If you are white and you display a confederate flag you’re automatically labeled a racist. When I see the confederate flag I am filled with southern pride, not because I want slavery, not because I believe I am superior to any else, but because I see it as symbol for a group of people who didn’t bow down to the “Man”. People who would rather fight and die than give up their beliefs.

Which were what, exactly?

They killed for the right to keep and profit from slaves.

That's why. You don't see a whole bunch of SS flags either.

Why, among any other symbols of southern pride, do such people consistently always want THAT one? There's a reason for it, and other people don't like that reason.

I guess we could choose to use cotton for a symbol, Wait a minute that would still be pro slavery.

This notion that this confederate flag represents slavery is pure propaganda. If you fell for it then consider yourself well brainwashed and take note of your weakness. Perhaps you can overcome it.

The flag of slavery was the US flag of the time.
The war, contrary to the propagandized education you all received, was not about slavery.

The South had already in the process of abolishing slavery.
Also contrary to your brainwashing, most slaves were well treated.
It was the few that got the most press that formed opinions and was used by the North to make all slavery look evil making it an emotional issue and completely taking the real issues out of sight. THe freed slaves were much worse off after the war than before.

Look it doesn't matter what symbol the south will use for pride, people would still find a reason to knock on it. Come on now this is like an older kid bullying a younger kid, complaning and stretching muscles will only lead to more bullying.

In time people will forget..maybe....either way, if i was from the South and somebody gave me crap for the conferecy, i would give them crap for killing all the Native Americans.

As a fellow Southerner, I can only say that when someone calls you racist for flying the Stars and Bars, you can only tell 'em to go to a very hot place that smells of sulfur...and keep flying the flag!

Most people are ignorant of history anyway. Do what you know is right and what fills your heart with pride.

Originally posted by OhZone
This notion that this confederate flag represents slavery is pure propaganda. If you fell for it then consider yourself well brainwashed and take note of your weakness. Perhaps you can overcome it.

The flag of slavery was the US flag of the time.
The war, contrary to the propagandized education you all received, was not about slavery.

The South had already in the process of abolishing slavery.
Also contrary to your brainwashing, most slaves were well treated.
It was the few that got the most press that formed opinions and was used by the North to make all slavery look evil making it an emotional issue and completely taking the real issues out of sight. THe freed slaves were much worse off after the war than before.

Whether or not they were treated "well" doesn't make a difference, it was salvery...pure and simple. Just cause you treat them well doesn't give you an excuse to have them.

And ofcourse the flag's purpose was NEVER intended to be seen as a symbol for slavery, i don't think hitler's swatstica was meant to be a sign of Anti-Semitism...but it is, because of the actions and history behind it.

And, as I said before,

Most people in the South did not own slaves! If you know anything, the Civil War was basically NOT ABOUT SLAVERY.

Ya, sure, Lincoln needed to free the slaves, but it wasn't before he thought it was extremely immoral, he needed to win the North's support and also at the same time, condemn the states who succeeded.

Lincoln DIDN'T EVEN START THE CIVIL WAR. James Buchanan failed to do anything when it started, so that's why we forget him...

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
Ya, sure, Lincoln needed to free the slaves, but it wasn't before he thought it was extremely immoral, he needed to win the North's support and also at the same time, condemn the states who succeeded.

And if you notice, when Lincoln first 'freed the slaves', it was the ones in the south...the ones over which he had no control. Ok, the rest followed...eventually...but I wouldn't be afraid to fly the Stars and Bars.

Besides the Civil War let's not forget that the flag didn't go out of use afterward, it was still flying high when crosses were burning, segregation was in full force, and random lynchings were common. That's where a lot of the hatred for it came from I'm sure.

For a flag that apparently represents freedom, rebellion, and standing up against corruption and power where were the Southern States during that time? Seems they were pretty content to march in line with the rest of America at that point, and in many instances seemed to set the precedent for just how bad segregation and race relations really were. That doesn't sound like "freedom, rebellion, and standing up against corruption and power" to me.

So what the flag stands for now seems justified to me: Southern apathy and racism.

Truth seeker I am glad to see some one that can see my struggles, and I appreciate all the comments I have received. Yes I understand that people are going to knock on any historical symbol from the south to represent slavery but what gives anyone the right to do that. That would be like me saying the big X that represents Malcolm X represents anti-white America. That would be ridiculous, don’t laugh some people actually see it that way.

The Confederate Flag is seen as a symbol of slavery by morons and the ignorant. The shame is that the morons and the ignorant outnumber virtually everyone else.

I had a roommate in college for a semester. A huge black guy. Friendly as hell. He was from a Southern state and had a Confederate Flag on his wall. He would often complain about the current Northern occupation. The guy was hard-core anti-fed. I smiled every time he spoke.

Anyway, whenever somebody would walk past the room or be invited in the first thing they would do is accuse me, a white guy, of being a Klansman for having that flag on the wall.

People are idiots. And they vote.

Ya, some people just either do not care, or know, but are afraid to act because they don't want to be incorrect or feeling awkward.

You have to look at the Flag, is it representative of a government, or a nation of people? I believe the latter. Most people believe that the Nazi flag is scandalous in the same way the Confederate one is.

But you have to remember that the flag representative a people, a land. So what if one group did something bad, or a government? It is representative of an ideal, or a people. You have to remember that the Swastika represented Hitler and Himmler, but also the young children frolicking in the meadows of Bavarian.

Some people forget that, and it turns into a nasty habit of stereotypes and assumptions.

Simply because fundamentally the difference between the north and south was the idea of cheap labor (slavery, endentured servant, etc.) and the North saw a problem with it. Of course there is a lot of things the south had accomplished and should be proud of, however the general perception doesn't filter that first.

AAC

I think the problem stems from people who were racist using the Southern Flag as a symbol of hate after the war. That and the school systems teaching kids the war was just about slavery. Freeing the slaves was essentially an act of war.

I'm a southerner too, and I think we can thank the good old boys in the KKK for flying those Naval Battle Flags during their demonstrations.

You can probably fly the different Army battleflags and get away with it, as those aren't connected with the Klan, and most people wouldn't recognize them.