[UK] How do we seriously attack knife crime?

Right, Britain, guns, very bad, knives, problem: 100 people in London died last year.

Dealing with this knife crime:

Labour: Community sentences and 'curfew' = A big band round your arm to show you're really hard.

Conservatives: Mandatory prison sentences. How long? A week for a pen knife? So you break the fear of prison for lots of people for screw all. And they build up an address book of hoods.

I reckon both are half right. Put a big suspended prison sentence on the lot of them, there's no cool value and they had better not do it again, or they do go down for some time and you retain the fear of prison.

What would you do?

[edit on 29/12/2008 by redled]

Do you have an original link? Otherwise, the title is kind of funny. Seriously attacking knife crimes. Maybe, and if there is a documented problem with such, there can be an urge to "reduce" knife crimes with fervor.



[edit on 29-12-2008 by pluckynoonez]

Ban knives. We all know it is NOT the fault of the people that stab other people with the knives, it is number of knives, and the availability of knives in the U.K. that is causing this problem. Simply ban knives and go with the spork.

Just like the U.S. and guns. Get rid of any potential weapons and the problem will disappear.

Yeah a link would be nice even though I have heard that knife crimes over there are getting pretty common place. I would get blasted for saying what I would do, maybe arm your cops and let people carry guns. Give up guns, next it's knives, then it's plastic sporks.

Nice Sonya, you beat me with the spork!

[edit on 29-12-2008 by Raustin]

reply to post by redled



People could carry bats or a very nasty poop on the end of a stick???

News paper armor???

Bigger knives or axes???

Chainlink armor???

reply to post by pluckynoonez


Labour's position.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

Conservative Postition.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

Cameron himself. And I think he's brilliant, but he's got this one badly wrong. Excuse had better be broad enough to offer hope, adolescent chance and opportunity.

Uh, with a Sword...duh.

Doesnt England have lots of swords to fight these knife wielders with?

Originally posted by Sonya610
Ban knives. We all know it is NOT the fault of the people that stab other people with the knives, it is number of knives, and the availability of knives in the U.K. that is causing this problem. Simply ban knives and go with the spork.

Just like the U.S. and guns. Get rid of any potential weapons and the problem will disappear.

Totally agree outside the house not in a very difficult to remove, what'd'ya call it, sheaf.

Originally posted by rangersdad
Doesnt England have lots of swords to fight these knife wielders with?

Alas, no. The police get you first.

Originally posted by The Bald Champion
reply to post by redled

 

People could carry bats or a very nasty poop on the end of a stick???

News paper armor???

Bigger knives or axes???

Chainlink armor???

This is an issue. Believe it or not, a very nasty poop on a stick does not worry the British people, nor cancer in 100s, our government has been banning people from the NHS for buying private drugs, they've given up on that, nor the cold and many will freeze this year, nor many things, but we all get shaken by the suddenness.

Very easy to eliminate knife crime. Simply restore the law abiding peoples' right to defend themselves and their property by not passing draconian laws aimed at preventing the average citizen from owning and carrying a firearm. The police may not be able to protect me from being stabbed in this nation (the USA) but my sidearm certainly can.

From my limited experience which is a few years youth work in Glasgow.
And i focus on young people here because I think an adult generally has more intelligence and less fear than a child (though this is highly debatable).
Kids, on the one hand, will carry knives here sometimes for outright attack on other kids they already know. Other times they will say they carry them for protection because 'I'd rather stab someone than be stabbed myself.' Further discussion often leads to issues with percieved 'territorialism' though further discussion will often blur these boundaries, as does age and experience.

For my part I see that it is not knives that are the problem, as I believe it is not rockets in palestine/israel that is the propbelm, but it is the thought processes of people that leads to so called 'knife crime'.

Some people learn that to survive and to better themselves they need education, good work, family and money. To others who the former are not easily, if at all, accessible they make the rules up themselves.

how to deal with it?

sigh....

early intervention?
diversion?
parenting education?
....... who knows.....??

one of the hardest things I find in my work is encouraging young people to participate healthly in a society I see as significantly damaged and unhealthy.. But you can't focus on the negative too much or else what hope is there to give to a newly conscious being on this planet...

respect to all who are trying

theres my rant.

reply to post by ivycutler


Not a rant, but thankyou for at least dealing with this seriously.

I don't know all the answers at all, but I think a healthy mixture of fear from the law, rather than fear of your gang rival, with something to do or hope of building up to that are critical in any final solution.

Good on you for doing youth work, I'm vexing with going into teaching, but I don't want a heart attack..... Inner city hell........

Put an age limit on carrying them if they were just trying to keep them away from teens that I could agree with but some of the knife laws in the uk though as it stands strike me as a little bit silly.

As an example to be legal you have to carry one under a 3 inch blade which is acceptable enough but it is also illegal to carry any with a locking blade that's the part I find stupid as in my eyes the locking blade is merely to stop you hacking your own fingers off not to mention almost all pocket knives sold have a lock by default.

I have to be brutally honest here I think the whole knife hysteria is a little over the top you can never ban weapons completely if someone wants to do you damage they will just break a bottle, lift a bat, get in their car and run you down etc.

here's a wee part of an english documentary. subtitled for those who don't speak or understand glaswegian.

dispatches channel 4 UK

Nothing will alleviate knife crime.

everything anyone can come up with is reactionary, abstract things like curfews and armbands and community schemes. None of these will work. They will dent, but they will not destroy. This is of course nothing to do with the herculean effort that council workers and volunteers put into to making these schemes happen. Its a question of culture. Kids in inner cities carry knives because it is the standard behaviour to do so. Or at least, not frowned upon by their peers to do so.
And its not something as glib and passing as a "craze" or a "im doin it cuz me mates are doin it" sort of thing. This isnt a recent thing. Just a progression upon other behaviours before it, reacting to the times.
Over the past few decades in this country weve seen an urban underclass developing who have little faith in modern society or their ability to succeed in it. They embrace gang culture for a sense of family, a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose that visions of a life as a telesalesman or insurance broker could never give them.
Words like "labour", "conservative" or "Knife crime" are abstract terms from high above and mean nothing to them. There is no direct soloution. Its goddam tragic these things happen on our streets, but there is always a reason for it. Theres nothing we can do but let this culture of knive-weilding, casual violence die out like everything before it and let some other tradgedy take its place.

ban knives.. any time you ban something they go away.

Community service is a joke.

If you're caught carrying a knife that clearly isn't going to be used for cooking, then it should be a mandatory 5 year prison sentence alongside murderers (and none of this get out of jail after half-time rubbish ). THAT will deter.

If you actually murder - forget this stupid "life sentence" that is actually only 25 years with chance of parole after 10 years - LIFE should be LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE. Better yet would be execution, but Europe wouldn't allow that.

reply to post by ivycutler


Problem you have is your under the assumption that it is preventable with education...... Well, here is a lesson.... Some people are just criminals! They will use force to take what they want, rob, steal, and worse.

Criminals have access to anything they want for a price... there are still shootings in the UK with handguns... handguns that the criminals have while your defenseless.... I find the idea insane myself.

You can pass any law you want... criminals don't give a flying (care) about the law. Neither do teen gangs.. .you can't outlaw all the pointed objects.. people are going to intimidate, mug, and kill each other with whatever instrument not caring about a law. Equalize the playing field.


Shoot a few of them and watch how fast crime goes down. Some of the things I have seen lately are insane.

Council advises homeowners to leave sheds open for thieves
www.telegraph.co.uk...

We need to ban the sale of long pointed kitchen knives:
www.bmj.com...


www.thesun.co.uk...

LONDON (Reuters) - A teenager who murdered a young student with a sub-machine gun in south London

uk.reuters.com...

Gang members members of the Birmingham-based Johnson Crew, used two 9mm handguns to shoot doorman
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Guns are the weapon of choice for the teenagers in the gangs of north Liverpool.
news.bbc.co.uk...

UK gang member found guilty of killing schoolboy
www.wtopnews.com...

You don't have as much gang crime as the US .... yet. But your above what you had before the gun ban!

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Islamic hate preacher Bakri says it’s Islamically OK for Muslim kids to carry knives
www.topnews.in...

According to official figures for England and Wales, the number of offences in which firearms were used fell from 13,434 in 1996 to 12,410 the following year. Crimes involving handguns fell from 3,347 in 1996 to 2,636 in 1997.

In 1999 such offences began creeping up again. The latest figures for 2005-2006 show a total of 21,521 firearms crimes, including 4,671 involving handguns.

But your catching up quick.... I still do not understand the idea of not protecting your family and property.... it astounds me beyond comprehension.


Here we have Police Chiefs who openly admit that "were on our own"

St. Louis alderman calls on residents to get armed
www.columbiamissourian.com...

The Mexican Army is sending "hit squads" into the US
Thursday, June 26, 2008
Mexican Army Members Raid Phoenix Home & Shoot Man Dead
gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...
archive.newsmax.com...

As crime shoots through the roof and armed gangs of thugs victimize you, I hope to god you return to the sanity of "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"