My friend and his wife.

I really appreciate all of the input on this. Just writing about this stuff here has made me feel a lot better, like a release.

When I spoke to her 2 nights ago I asked her if she wanted me to leave and she said very quickly "no". I said maybe you should take your time and think about it for a few days and let me know then. I told her I wouldn't be able to leave overnight, I would have to prepare. But that I would leave. She kept saying she already knows the answer, doesn't need time to think about it. Her answer was "no".

I thought maybe she just wants to keep me here for the sake of my son, she said no that's not the case.

I also thought she might be seeing someone, but usually when someone is cheating they display some classic signs such as dressing differently or some other physical changes, more makeup, new clothes, etc. She always tries to look good but nothing in that area has changed.

She never goes on the internet, except to order things, and she doesn't go out unexpectedly.

I think the people who have been saying that I might be overdoing the attentiveness, waiting on her and forcing my affection on her are probably correct. I think I should tone that stuff down, bring it down a notch. It hasn't been helping.

Before my son was born I used to be out almost every night playing music with friends or going to see/hear live music, etc. Since then I've lost touch with a lot of my friends. I still jam here in my basement a few times a month but I need to get out of the house somehow.

Since my son was born I slowly became a little reclusive. Since I work from home this was an easy road to go down. I didn't realize what was happening to me. Didn't realize I was slipping into a kind if social rut. Now I find that I never go out.

I should definitely try to get out more, this might be (as a few have suggested above) one of the reasons why I'm having these problems now.

I've decided to tone down (in a big way) being so accommodating in my relationship. Maybe in trying to be so helpful I lost my "balls" so to speak.
I won't try to be so affectionate all the time, as a matter of fact I'm going to stop that all together (it doesn't work).

I'm going to start going out again, or at least try to. This one is going to be a little difficult, since I've lost touch with most of my friends. These things get harder when you get older. I'm 40 now. It seemed much easier 5 or 10 years ago to meet new friends. Here's a lesson for the younger people here who might read this; hold on to your friends even when starting your own families, you're going to need them.

and so it stands to reason that it didn't work. Why not? Why does motherhood not work in this scenario?
Why would having a baby not help create the family atmosphere they intended?

Originally posted by seagrass
and so it stands to reason that it didn't work. Why not? Why does motherhood not work in this scenario?
Why would having a baby not help create the family atmosphere they intended?

It did for about 5 years. It felt like a dream. My son made us both much happier and brought us closer. But something changed. I thought the change occurred this past summer, or at least that's what I perceived.

Since then it has been a slow decent, which seemed to have culminated when my wife had that outburst in front of my son. That was the point I knew something is very wrong here.

You guys had a lot of very insightful things to say, very helpful to get different perspectives on this. I really appreciate it.

Originally posted by Electro38
I really appreciate all of the input on this. Just writing about this stuff here has made me feel a lot better, like a release.

Well if she has been in the relationship for 14 years, and it has seen some rough times, she obviously does have some level of committment.

I would suggest a book called "The Art of Intimacy" written by Thomas and Patrick Malone, father and son, both psychiatrists. It is out of print but can be found online. Basically it talks about various forms of love, but it also talks about how intimacy is sacrificed for security. It is not an easy read but it has some really good ideas.

For instance in a relationship people often give up being themselves, saying what they think, expressing what they want, because they want to maintain security. They lock themselves into a box so to speak, because they feel if they step out of their established role the other may be upset, and how that can kill relationships.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by Sonya610]

All the best, Electro. Finding happiness for yourself is the logical first step. If the relationship is strong, it should only bring you closer. And, if not, it will go a long way to exposing the cracks. Either way, you both deserve to be happy.

reply to post by Sonya610


I can definitely relate to that. In my relationship I have always been the one to initiate communication. My wife would just remain silent, she has always been like that.

One of the reasons I made a conscious effort to be more affectionate, attentive, and to make sure we communicate was for the sake of my son. I know what it's like to witness your parents fighting, and split up. Your whole world crumbles as a child, and you're never the same again.

My parents got divorced when I was 11. I would try anything I can to prevent that from happening to my son at age 5. The other reason is the fact that I'm still in love with my wife.

Will look into the book you mention. Thanks.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Electro38]

Originally posted by Electro38

Originally posted by seagrass
and so it stands to reason that it didn't work. Why not? Why does motherhood not work in this scenario?
Why would having a baby not help create the family atmosphere they intended?

It did for about 5 years. It felt like a dream. My son made us both much happier and brought us closer. But something changed. I thought the change occurred this past summer, or at least that's what I perceived.

Since then it has been a slow decent, which seemed to have culminated when my wife had that outburst in front of my son. That was the point I knew something is very wrong here.

You guys had a lot of very insightful things to say, very helpful to get different perspectives on this. I really appreciate it.

Follow your instincts Electro... go back to last summer.. and see what happened. What changed.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


Thank you very much. I appreciate all of your insight. It has really helped me.

Originally posted by Electro38
The other day she was having a mini breakdown while making my son a sandwich. She blurted out; "I hate being here because of him!"

I just saw this bit after you referenced it. When you offered to leave if she wanted you to, I do hope you realize that you can't leave your son in that enviroment. If you leave, you have to take him with you.

That right there is seriously messed up. Regardless what happens with your wife, your son has to remain the top priority when it comes to protecting him and his mental stability. He didn't choose this situation, but it will impact him for the rest of his life.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Electro38
The other day she was having a mini breakdown while making my son a sandwich. She blurted out; "I hate being here because of him!"

I just saw this bit after you referenced it. When you offered to leave if she wanted you to, I do hope you realize that you can't leave your son in that enviroment. If you leave, you have to take him with you.

That right there is seriously messed up. Regardless what happens with your wife, your son has to remain the top priority when it comes to protecting him and his mental stability. He didn't choose this situation, but it will impact him for the rest of his life.

Exactly. When I heard her say that in front of my son it scared me. I don't think I could leave my son. She often gets overwhelmed with him and I act as the buffer. This is one of the reasons why I tried to be affectionate/attentive and try to do whatever I can for her. So she would feel less stressed and she would be happier and my son would be happier.

I was trying to change the dynamics of what I saw happening in my house.

5 years ago when I was thinking about splitting up with her, I was going to therapy. My therapist asked me to get my wife involved and she very adamantly refused. "No way!" is what she would say. I brought it up to her over the years and it has always been the same response.

I think a refusal to go to therapy is potentially a fear that something will be revealed that might be painful or uncomfortable. The problem is if she isn't capable of dealing with it on her own, and most of us aren't despite how independent we'd like to believe we are, and if she isn't willing to talk to you about it, what choice is left? But if she's resistant to therapy and continues that attitude, no therapist in the world is going to be able to help.

I went through therapy myself, and while I can't say the therapists I've seen have been extremely helpful, they did help to a point just by allowing me to expose things to light, allowing me to heal myself.

Plain and simple: Secrets hurt.

I don't even necessarily advocate therapy as a rule. The truth is, it only requires a person with whom she can feel completely open and honest with, someone who will accept without judgment. It doesn't have to be a "professional" as long as the person is capable of dealing with her on the level she requires.

I agree with TravelerintheDark 100% on that.
If she doesn't trust that what she says will be held without judgment, she will never reveal her true feelings. Who will give her that freedom is hard to say.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
I think a refusal to go to therapy is potentially a fear that something will be revealed that might be painful or uncomfortable.

Well it also depends on whether it is couples therapy or individual therapy. In couples therapy a smart person may realize they will have to take responsibility for some of the problems, or their issues will be addressed, and they may not want a third party meddling in the power structure of the relationship.

Sounds very similar to what happened to me,she ran off with a fake millionaire she met on the internet,to make a long story short I am now divorced,so be wary might be something going on with someone else,btw she was 39 at the time,and I was married 27 years

reply to post by Sonya610


I agree with that. And in this case it seems that it is a power struggle, not wanting to lose control on some level. Accepting intimacy is in and of itself a matter of trust and allowing surrender not to our partner's emotions but to our own, as I see it.

I generally see individual therapy as having more value than family or even couples therapy, let alone, God forbid, group therapy. Really if only because I think the issues we face with our partners weren't created by them or with them. They usually stem from issues generated by others and ourselves. And the environment is a lot safer for the individual, as I believe you're saying.

Ideally though, we could all have a partner in our lives to act in that role and not need to seek outside help.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
btw she was 39 at the time, and I was married 27 years

Ummmm....I am assuming that was a typo? She would have been 12.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Sonya610]

Ok Electro - I have read through the posts here and I will now respond. Upon reading this I thought you at first were my husband who knows I am on ATS/BTS alot. I really thought you were him and here is why....
You just described me (your wife) only of course I'm not your wife but I am the wife of a husband who is going through the EXACT same thing as you. The difference between your family and mine? My son is 6 and we have been married 13yrs. But from an emotional level you and how you describe your wife is exactly how I am with my husband.

So...I am hoping you get back on and read this because I am about to tell you what your wife is feeling. She is bored and frusterated with her life and believe it or not it has nothing to do with you or your son. She is feeling stuck and yet not in a sense that she wants to dissolve your marriage. She doesn't know how to get out of the rut and so she is angry, it's displaced anger and it's directed at you because you are the closest thing to her. She goes to work as a nurse and it's long hours and she is surrounded by ill people all day long and the energy is often low around sick people. She absorbs this negative energy all day long.

She feels drained and despite the attempts you make at taking care of your son and doing housechores it will never be enough and that isn't your fault it's just how she is feeling. So she is beginning to resent you and the resentment is the reason why she is annoyed when you touch her because simply touching her she feels like you want something from her and she doesn't feel like she has anything left to give because she is depressed although she may not even be aware of that because she feels deep down like it's everyone else and not her.

She isn't seeing someone else, she doesn't have the energy for that and she doesn't want anything to happen to you. She simply doesn't know how to get out of the rut. She may be looking back 5 yrs ago and thinking things were simplier then and of course 5 yrs ago your son wasn't born yet. So she is feeling stuck with him too. But she does love him it's just when he is being difficult it's more and more taxing on her because she doesn't know how to handle it and really she doesn't want to handle it, she just wants it all to go away for a while.

Now for a solution? I can't give you one. It's really up to her to change her outlook nobody can make her happy. But what you can do is take what I have said and see if you can get something out of her. See if this is how she is feeling, I beleive it is and then if she feels like you really do understand you both may be able to get her out of it. I think she simply doesn't realize the depths of her own feelings.

I hope that helps you some.

reply to post by DDay


I hear what you're saying and I took notice of this with my wife. So I tried to secretly arrange a girls night out for her. My sisters are very close to my wife, they are very good friends. They used to (with my encouragement) go out dancing one in awhile and have a lot of fun.

My wife hasn't done that in awhile so I tried to arrange the girl's night out for her. I called my sister and asked her to set it up. But my wife seemed indifferent to the idea, almost annoyed about it. So instead I took her to a very nice restaurant, which she enjoyed very much. But by the next day she was back in her old mood.

I really thought it would be better for her to go out and have some time away from me and my son, just to clear her head. I'm still working on it.

My point is, I understand what you're saying, been trying to address that proactively.

When she does have time to rest and relax she doesn't take advantage of it. I'll tell her to go take a nap, or go see a friend, etc. and I'll watch our son. I am constantly suggesting this to her, almost on a daily basis.

She doesn't sleep enough or eat right. I am constantly trying to get her to sleep more, or just relax on the couch while I watch our son. I try to force vitamins on her. Everyday I try to make sure she's had the vitamins I got for her. She never takes her vitamins unless I insist on it and hand them to her.

She doesn't know what's good for her, how to take care of herself or how to relax/rest. She has plenty of opportunities to do so, never takes advantage of them, unless I literally fight with her and insist on it.

But I think you're right. I agree with you. I don't think she has the energy to see someone else.

I'm not an angel, I have my faults too. I'm not saying that I'm mister perfect in our relationship, but everything I described here concerning my behavior is very accurate.

Sorry, I'm rambling now. I sincerely appreciate all of the insight. Just writing about this stuff in a public forum somehow feels like a huge relief.

Thanks.

[edit on 29-12-2008 by Electro38]

One thing I would like to add is that I know it is easier to become bored, indifferent or angry in any long term relationship.

It's easier to just go down that road and give into that. It's very, very common for most couples to eventually go down that road.

I am a very creative/imaginative and inventive person, it's what I do for a living. I'm not bragging, if I have any good qualities these are them.

So, I have been making conscious efforts to reinvent the way I think about my wife. It is easier (takes much less effort) to get bored with someone you see everyday, it happens in most marriages.

It's easier for me to look at wife and say, blah... But how would that help anything? You will eventually feel that way with anyone you've been with for many years. But here's what I do; I actually try to maintain a "fantasy" view of my wife. Put her on a pedestal in my mind. Where I continue to adore her.

It takes effort to do that, you have to work at it and use your imagination but it works and it becomes reality. I did this very consciously.

I think most people just give into that common route where the couple becomes bored and indifferent towards each other. After many years it is easier to look at other people, be attracted to other people, have affairs. But how does that serve anyone? Where does it get you?

I believe it gets you nowhere. You get bored/indifferent because you can't use your imagination, don't know how to reinvent your love, or interest in each other. So you go down that all to common road, find someone else. At first it's incredible (just as it was when you first met your wife), it feels great and exciting and you love everything about your new mate.

Until 10-15 years later, you'll be right back where you were; indifferent and bored. Where is this getting anyone?

Everyone talks about find their "soul mate", like some extraordinary magical event will be bestowed upon you. You won't have to work at it, or you won't need to use your imagination, inventiveness, etc. It will just be wonderful all the time. I don't believe such a thing exists. Why should it?

It's always wonderful and magical in the beginning, always.

I'm just addressing the "boredom" topic. Becoming bored and angry are the easiest things to do in a very long term marriage. You're both working all the time, paying incredible bills/mortgage, raising kids, and dealing with all kinds of other stuff. It's easier to get angry at each other because things aren't perfect and it's easier to become bored with each other.

People don't usually try to reinvent their love for each other until after someone's had an affair, or something as significant occurs. They do it (reinvent themselves) at those points at of fear, fear of the unknown fear of losing security, etc. They don't do it just to do it, even before there are any signs of problems.

I've been trying to do these things proactively even before there were any signs of problems, when things were great. Always thinking of ways to stay interested, to make things interesting, reinvent the way I think about my wife. It took a lot of though, effort and time. But it does work if your efforts are well received. If your efforts go unreceived, or ill-received what do you do. That's where I am now.



[edit on 29-12-2008 by Electro38]

Electro, the thing is is that no matter how inventive you are or will continue to be in the future you are but one person in the relationship. So no matter your efforts then will be met with disdain and eventually you too will tire of trying because you are trying to manage the relationship by yourself and it cannot be done.

I think you are above what most people would do in this situation. Most would divorce without trying to discover or rediscover themselves but you will burn out and that cannot happen either because you have a child to consider in this. You need to make her face herself. You have to tell her that you and your son cannot and won't live under these conditions. It sounds harsh I know but she needs to realize that her actions or inactions are having an impact on those around her and she needs to rediscover the beauty of life. It won't come in the way of a pill but rather in herself. You can reassure her that you will be there for whatever she needs but she is the only one that can take responsibility for her actions and self and get out of this rut.