Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by GamerGal

 

oh its THAT label again!

critisize Israel and your ANTI-SEMITE!


bit hard really when your talking about 2 semite peoples....

oh HOT DAMN did that small FACT get in the way of a good rant gamergal?

both groups are sons of noah and thus a semite peoples.

It is a generally accepted term to use for those who rant about Israel/Jewish people.

Is it accurate, no but it is a generally understood concept.

In the same way as people who rant about the Hamas are referred to as Zionists by "some people" (the same people who cannot define what it actually means).

Is it accurate, no, but it is seeming to be a generally accepted term used for those who rant about Hamas or (fill in any M.E. terrorist group).

Not to change the subject, but I note that Hamas is as of this moment still lobbing rockets at Israel.

If Israel had any balls, they'd make an announcement that:

1. We are suspending all operations against Gaza for 72 hours.

2. The purpose is so that word can spread through all of Gaza, and that there be no mistakes because some idiot didn't get the word.

3. After 72 hours, one single rocket will result in the total and complete loss of one grid, selected at random, by a random number generator.

4. MLRS single warhead rockets will be used in conjunction with artillery, and bombing to disintegrate every structure, every edifice, every detail of any component within that grid, one-thousand meters by one-thousand meters.

5. Two rockets - loss of two grids and everything in them.

This will continue until no further attacks from Gaza occur.

No attacks, no rockets, no kidnappings, no sniping - - - no loss of grids.

Thus it will be.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by dooper]

reply to post by dooper

Israel will go in. Sure as night follows day. There is no other way to achieve its aim of stopping the rockets unless it eliminates Hamas completely.

An update

Israeli Troops Enter Gaza - Hamas
By Middle East Correspondent Ben Knight
Posted 2 hours 3 minutes ago
Updated 1 hour 41 minutes ago

There are reports this morning that Israeli ground troops have briefly entered the Gaza Strip, after Israel's Government rejected calls for a 48-hour truce.

According to Hamas sources inside Gaza, the special forces soldiers entered the territory near the city of Khan Younis after sunset, and briefly exchanged fire with militants before retreating back over the border under the cover of tank fire.

The Israeli army has not confirmed if any of its troops have been inside Gaza.

Read more here
www.abc.net.au...


res

reply to post by Harlequin

i have 1 quesion for everyone:
how many slavs died in WW2 at the direct hands of the Nazi`s?

Thank you for posting this bit off topic but relevant question as Nazi democide is often cited by their genocide of the Jews.

What is the difference between democide and genocide? Democide is simply death by government. It is any murder by government officials acting under the authority of government according to the explicit or implicit government policy or with the implicit or explicit approval of the highest officials.

Genocide is more confusing at it may or may not include government murder, and refer to wholly or partially eliminating some group, or involve psychological damage. When it includes government murder it may be entirely government conducted or partially government conducted.

The meaning defined by international treaty, the Convention of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which makes genocide a punishable crime under international law, and defines it as:

Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The most recent studies show that 10,547,000 Eastern Slavs were killed through Genocide by the Nazi Germans as part of Nazi Democide that killed a sum total of 20,946,000 people of which Genocide was carried out on 16,315,000 including 220,000 homosexuals 258,000 gypsies, 5,291,000 Jews in addition to the Slavs whose death total through Nazi Genocide is approximately twice that of Jews.

11,283,000 of those victims of Nazi Genocide include the institutional killing of 172,500 by forced euthanasia, 1,861,000 through forced labor, 3,100,000 as prisoners of war, and 6,063,000 in concentration and death camps.

Of the 10,547,000 non-Jewish Slavs killed through Nazi Genocide, Poland was most heavily effected with 5,400,000 killed, followed by the Soviet Union with 5,055,400 killed, Yugoslavia with 625,000, Hungary 406,000 the Baltic States 255,000, Czechoslovakia with 214,000, Rumania with 70,000 and Bulgaria with 7,000.

On a personal note my maternal Grandfather was a first generation American of Polish immigrant parents. He was a peace loving man brought up a Catholic but became agnostic later in life. The only time he ever became inebriated in his life was the evening of the 1st of September 1939 when news of the Nazi invasion of Germany reached his native Pittsburgh late in the afternoon. The loss of 5,400,000 Poles throughout the war some of them his blood relatives in large part convinced him to forsake the notion of a G-d as put forward in Catholicism as he could not rationalize how any deity could be so uncompassionate and unproductive. He was also well aware as a successful businessman active in the stock market that many American companies had invested in Nazi Germany, many of them purely for profit and had perpetuated a widely accepted stance up until then the Nazi’s were not as bad or evil as they turned out to be in order to justify those investments and profits.

It was he who taught me as a small boy to never believe any government’s official propaganda stance, that it was business interests who ruled the world for the sake of money and not the diluted and sometimes down right deluded political, ideological, and religious organizations that claimed to govern for the people for the sake of the people.

Clearly other ethnic groups suffered during the holocaust some suffered even twice that of the Jews.

This is why I personally reject religious based arguments and persecution based arguments as any justification for the Zionist terrorism led against the British Mandate, and their fellow dovish Jews, and the indigenous Arabs, to defeat the terms of the Mandate and disenfranchise the indigenous Arabs.

In my humble opinion it’s all about money and politics and all else is just an evoked smoke screen to avoid the issues of the flawed morality exercised by Zionist and Israeli terrorism.

The Palestinians have likewise made some critical mistakes and blunders along the way in response to addressing that deliberate Zionist agenda to disenfranchise them.

My Grandfather taught me one other thing though…two wrongs don’t make a right.

reply to post by intrepid


Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, and I blew your counter out of the water. You only have to catch a group in the act of faking the deaths of children once to loose all respect for them. If you bothered to do the reasearch, there is considerable evidence of faked masacres and faked civilian deaths in other instances.

As the old expression goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Harlequin

"teen angst"?

Are you sure your problem isn't old fogey itis?

reply to post by Majorion


I think you are splitting hairs here, but I will make myself clear, I think a fraction of Muslims are terrorists, but I often wonder how big that fraction is.

BTW suicide is forbidden to be committed in Islam if one wishes to remain a Muslim, so that means that whoever kills themselves and others in an act of suicide is NO Muslim at all and should not be considered as such.

Obviously, there are those in Islam who disagree with you. With the whole 72 tweenies waiting in heaven for those who die for Allah, and the fact that Mohammad was a conquerer and a war monger, who most likely encouraged soldiers to charge into battle even though they faced certain death, I'd say they have reason. This is big thing about Islam that most people find extremely harsh and basically unacceptable in a religion.

Some Muslims are calling for the death of Israel out of hate and anger for all that is happening, but it does NOT necessarily mean that they are "terrorists" poet1b nor does it necessarily mean that they ever intend on acting on such a statement, such is the misconception my friend. And even if someone harbors this opinion.. don't you think it's kinda extreme to put them in jail for hating Israel?

This is the thing, I understand many people are prejudiced, and the people of the Middle East are in general even more badly informed than the people of the West, but there is a line that one crosses when one goes from harboring prejudicial attitudes, and starts supporting outright murder, as in acts of terrorism.

Harboring terrorist, assisting terrorist, and aiding terrorist makes one just as guilty of the act of terrorism. Muslims who knowingly allow terrorists to carry out their plots while hiding in their midst are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves, they are co-conspirators, and it is a crime.

What I wonder, like a great many people outside of the Islam, is, how many Muslims are co-conspirators in acts of terrorism, honor killings, and other crimes associated with the Muslim community. Moderate Muslims have a duty to turn in these criminals and report their activities, or else they become a part of the crime itself, and make themselves targets. When a community is identified as encouraging such horrific crimes, eventually, retaliation becomes inevitable.

The murderous fanatics who commit acts of terrorism and other such crimes against humanity are the greatest danger to the moderate Muslim community.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

He was also well aware as a successful businessman active in the stock market that many American companies had invested in Nazi Germany, many of them purely for profit and had perpetuated a widely accepted stance up until then the Nazi’s were not as bad or evil as they turned out to be in order to justify those investments and profits.

Yes, he was correct. I am very sorry for the loss of family members. One of the biggest corporate culprits regarding collusion with the Nazi's was IBM. The NY Times bestseller, "IBM and the Holocaust" discusses in detail the horrific things that IBM to help exterminate people. IBM set up the IBM machines that kept track of where the Jews were in Germany, and then later helped set up and run the machines in the death camps to keep track of how many were being exterminated. The book is ISBN 0-609-80899.
In fact, Watson was awarded the "Merit Cross of the German Eagle with Star", the highest honest possible, to "honor foreign nationals who made themselves deserving of the German Reich". During the war, Watson continued to support Hitler's efforts, by setting up a dummy corporation, and transferring machines and IBM personnel to that dummy org. to continue to assist Nazi Germany in it's efforts to wipe out Jews. The book even depicts how Watson was able to fool the FBI into thinking that he was not helping Hitler during the war.

Once you read this book, you will never look at Corporations in the same light again.

reply to post by Majorion

Sorry, I've already told you that anyone who performs such acts is not a Muslim and shouldn't be considered as such. I, as a Muslim.. say.. that you can kill all the terrorists you want.. even if they call themselves Muslims, but again...NOT innocent civilians.

Good post! I've spent quite a bit of time in the Middle East, and made quite a few Muslim friends, and every one of them agree with what you said. As a Christian, I also believe that those who kill(except in self defense) are not true Christians, even though they may say they are. I also find it hard to believe that religious Jews would condone killing of civilians, as it is a violation of one of the 10 Commandments. We all believe in the same God, and that God does not make separate laws for each religion.

THIRD AND FINAL REQUEST/WARNING/INSTRUCTION

Hi People,

This is the THIRD time now - in recent days - I'm reminding people to:

1. Remain On-Topic
2. Keep it civil
3. Not personally atttack eachother
4. Keep the snidey sidejabs OUT of it.

Some people obviously aren't hearing/reading my too well. Therefore - I'll make it exceptionally clear for everyone:

Any further examples of those types of unneeded replies...anything that even remotely smells like it...will get hit with a Warn IF I'm feeling compassionate.

Otherwise it will be a POST-BAN and you can chill out for 3 days.

I understand that some people are just rising to bait by others.

I understand that some people are merely jabbing back after being jabbed.

I appreciate and get that.

But you're also ALL adults. Any reply you CHOOSE to make in rebuttal or retaliation is on YOU. Wear the consequences, as I will not enter into any 's/he said it first' u2u exchange.


Cheers.



[edit on 31-12-2008 by alien]

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


If Muslims do not condone killing others, then how did Mohammad carry out his conquests and his war mongering? How can the Arab league back Hamas, which is actively killing citizens in Israel. I guess the lack of people speaking up and condemning Hamas means that there are very few Muslims in the Middle East.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Majorion

 

Just because you claim that a suicidal act of terrorism means one is no longer a Muslim doesn't mean that all Muslim believe this, or even a majority.

If you have nothing to offer but to attack the words and the logic behind the words and to insult me, then you are simply admitting that my observations are correct.

The whole Jews control the media is just a racial slur.

This typical response where those supporting Islam refuse to engage in a discussion about the differences of perspectve between a Westerners and Muslims only serves to convince even those on the outside of the confrontation even more that the attacks against Gaza and Hamas are fully justified.

Actually all Muslims say suicide is bad even if you are taking a few Israelis with you. The deliberate intention of killing yourself is 'haram' (forbidden) so for a Palestinian to do such a thing means that they have been driven to it.

Most people in situations of great abuse do become nihilistic. This problem could be easily resolved if the Palestinians were as armed as the Israelis.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Yes, if they were equally armed, and put on a field in equal numbers, so that winner takes all, it might resolve the dispute, but I doubt it. What happens if they all kill each other?

Then who winds up controlling the Middle East?

We would all be better off if we all agreed to stop the fighting and the killing, and the attacks, but lets face it, that ain't ever going to happen.

Technology is only going to continue to make things ever more lopsided. This means that time is against the Palestinians, so the sooner they make peace, the better off they will be.

reply to post by poet1b

How can the Arab league back Hamas, which is actively killing citizens in Israel.

I believe people continue to confuse ethnic groups with religion. Being Arab does not indicate that the person is religious, just as being Israeli does not indicate that the person is a religious person adhering to Judaism.
To go any further with this, would be to divert from the topic of this thread, so I won't, and I suggest that you should also refrain from these blanket statements about any religion.
The bottom line, is that Israel admits to killing hundreds of civilians in their attacks, and the measures they are using are out of proportion to what Hamas has done. Killing any civilians is something to be avoided on both sides.
In addition, Israel has denied a request for a 48 hour cease fire, to get aid to the wounded. I cannot see how that denial helps the Israeli cause.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

Yes, if they were equally armed, and put on a field in equal numbers, so that winner takes all, it might resolve the dispute, but I doubt it. What happens if they all kill each other?

Then who winds up controlling the Middle East?

We would all be better off if we all agreed to stop the fighting and the killing, and the attacks, but lets face it, that ain't ever going to happen.

Technology is only going to continue to make things ever more lopsided. This means that time is against the Palestinians, so the sooner they make peace, the better off they will be.

If there was a matched fight in a field, I really do think the Palestinians would take the Israelis.

Secondly, if you knew the true nature of technology, you would realise that over time it becomes more vague. While you would use a component for one thing today, the development of a new component with another use could change the use of the older one, not make it obsolete. This could be due to assimilation, congruent usage, linear applications and so on. In effect technology becomes plastic and as formable as the mind that uses/re-designs it. Why do you always find that every time the US embarks in a war with a Second World country, it monitors the flow PS2s and other hightec tools and toys?

I would not bargain on technology saving the bacon of Israel all the time.

[edit on 073131p://pm3103 by masonwatcher]

Oh yeah. Suicide is prohibited in the Qur'an, killing is prohibited in the Qur'an, there are many peaceful Muslims.

Yet those that do these things can quote the exact Sura for their behavior, and then go even further and back it up by the example of Muhammed, as "in Muhammed, you have good example."

So they send kids to retrieve rockets, and they get killed, they dress up retards and send them into a market to enable a remote detonation, and they preach the Islamic mandate to kill all others except Muslims as taught in the Qur'an, Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, and Ishaq chronicles.

I'm not buying. And even the more recent translations of the Qur'an into English for example, have been greatly sanitized, and a lot of words have been substituted from the original writings.

Smooth.

reply to post by masonwatcher


What history has clearly shown is that religion supresses technological development. As longs as the Muslim world continues to take their religion too seriously, they will continue to lag in technology.

Technology is what gives the West and Israel their advantage, and it will continue to do so. Will all of the wealth of oil resources, the Middle East has yet to succeed in developing a tecnological or industrial base. It isn't for lack of intelligence, but due to religious supression.

For this reason, Israel and the West will remain in the advantage until this changes.