reply to post by ProfEmeritus
Its amazing too me. Isreal basically practices the same tactics of say Saddam Hussein in terms of media control yet no one says boo
And yet when you try to counter post stuff from the other side you get that anti semite lable slapped on you.
You may not like Al Jazerra but it reflect how we are seen outside the idylic world our MSM posts for us.
Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza, page 69
privacy
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 09:56 PM by poet1b
reply to post by pepsi78
People who act like animals should be caged.
When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest, and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing.
You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position. You support murdering terrorists who bomb and kill anyone they can for political motivation in the same of some supposed god. Your attempts to claim to be on the side of justice is a travesty.
People who act like animals should be caged.
When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest, and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing.
You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position. You support murdering terrorists who bomb and kill anyone they can for political motivation in the same of some supposed god. Your attempts to claim to be on the side of justice is a travesty.
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 10:07 PM by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by FredT
I agree completely. Unfortunately I wasn't surprised when the "You hate Jews" cry came out from some posters. That is usually the last resort of those who have no VALID argument on their behalf. In fact, what people like that are really saying is that they don't have a counter-argument, and it is a veiled admission of defeat on their part.
History says that Menachim Begin used the same tactics that the Israelis accuse the Palestinians of. Israel can't have it both ways. If they consider Begin a "patriot", then Hamas is a patriotic organization trying to win back land that they held at a point in history.
And yet when you try to counter post stuff from the other side you get that anti semite lable slapped on you.
I agree completely. Unfortunately I wasn't surprised when the "You hate Jews" cry came out from some posters. That is usually the last resort of those who have no VALID argument on their behalf. In fact, what people like that are really saying is that they don't have a counter-argument, and it is a veiled admission of defeat on their part.
History says that Menachim Begin used the same tactics that the Israelis accuse the Palestinians of. Israel can't have it both ways. If they consider Begin a "patriot", then Hamas is a patriotic organization trying to win back land that they held at a point in history.
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 10:08 PM by poet1b
reply to post by pepsi78
From what I read here, you are the one encouraging the terrorist to kill innocent people.
If you attack someone, you have no right to complain when they attack back.
On the farm, we treated our dogs like family, but if one of the dogs bit someone, it was taken out back and done away with.
Murderous thugs always find a reason to justify their acts, and it is Hamas, along with all the other Muslim terrorist, and those who support them, who think that they can justify their murderous actions.
Hamas started firing rockets into Iraeeli territory, they must be stopped, and dealt with.
From what I read here, you are the one encouraging the terrorist to kill innocent people.
If you attack someone, you have no right to complain when they attack back.
On the farm, we treated our dogs like family, but if one of the dogs bit someone, it was taken out back and done away with.
Murderous thugs always find a reason to justify their acts, and it is Hamas, along with all the other Muslim terrorist, and those who support them, who think that they can justify their murderous actions.
Hamas started firing rockets into Iraeeli territory, they must be stopped, and dealt with.
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 10:12 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by IAF101
I am not sure if that is true, that the British Government’s Official Correspondences and Public Records are actually some how controlled by the Palestinians. I feel obliged to accept the British Government’s account at its word since they were in fact the lawful authority in Palestine and being English and Angelical it would be hard to image them influenced or tainted by Islam. I have managed in my research to uncover some very prominent Zionist British Lords like Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschild but to date no Arab Lords in the British Government or aristocracy.
I will conduct a search and see if I can uncover any Islamic, or Arab influences from within the British Government during this time frame just to make sure.
Thanks, in the meantime here is another example of the mentality involved by people like former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir as evidenced in a Stern Gang Pamphlet from his era as the Stern Gang's leader:
A Stern Gang pamphlet found in Hadar Hacarrnel, Haifa, on May 7, 1947, illustrates their fanaticism and intellectual confusion: (1)
"Innocent blood will not be shed, but the blood of rioters, pogrom-heroes and murderers will be shed, for it is defiled. And so is the blood of each Briton, ruling beyond the frontiers of his country. The British blood-sucker, to be a soldier, a constable, a clerk, so long as he obeys orders to exploit and murder, he is indicted. He is here to guard the imperialist rule and prevent the rescue of the Jews. For this his blood will be shed.
It is unavoidable that in this war innocent blood will be shed as well, but there has never been a war or revolution 'with all comforts," without privations, without destruction, without bloodshed. Let those among us who are afraid of bloodshed and destruction say openly that they surrender to a New Munich, to each White Paper, which leads to a ghetto and ultimately to new gas-chambers a la Auschwitz. They sit in their homes waiting for the day of the great slaughter which Bevin and his partner Kaukji are preparing for us, waiting for Jewish youth to be mobilized by the Anglo-Saxons in their war against the Soviet Union. They cry over defiled British blood, but remain silent over the blood of innocent refugees. The blood of the strong one must be protected, the blood of the weak one may be shed. Why don't they try to force the British to stop bloodshed, why do they force us?
Why are you shouting from your walls (Hahoma Wall) about innocent Jewish blood being shed by the "terrorists," while not admitting the murder of 230 innocent refugees of the "Patria"? How dare you accuse us of murder while you killed tenfold as many Jews on a single occasion? Reply!
Jewish blood is sacred and pure. The blood of Britons suppressing foreign countries is defiled. Therefore it will be shed to prevent innocent blood from being shed."
It does seem to be fanatical and violent, and the British were lawful governors operating under United Nations authority in an agreement the Zionists were actually a signatory and party too. Simply put the British weren’t firing rockets at the Zionists but simply trying to get them to honor the Mandate agreements of accepting that 52% of the land was to be awarded to the Arabs and 48% to the Zionists and Jews, with Jerusalem to remain an open and free city overseen by the Holy See in Rome in perpetuity.
I'm sorry but I cant bother tearing the article down because should I start it would take me all day and maybe even a few days. Thats just too much effort for something that I'm sure somebody else will regurgitate a few months later somewhere else!
I am not sure if that is true, that the British Government’s Official Correspondences and Public Records are actually some how controlled by the Palestinians. I feel obliged to accept the British Government’s account at its word since they were in fact the lawful authority in Palestine and being English and Angelical it would be hard to image them influenced or tainted by Islam. I have managed in my research to uncover some very prominent Zionist British Lords like Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschild but to date no Arab Lords in the British Government or aristocracy.
I will conduct a search and see if I can uncover any Islamic, or Arab influences from within the British Government during this time frame just to make sure.
Thanks, in the meantime here is another example of the mentality involved by people like former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir as evidenced in a Stern Gang Pamphlet from his era as the Stern Gang's leader:
A Stern Gang pamphlet found in Hadar Hacarrnel, Haifa, on May 7, 1947, illustrates their fanaticism and intellectual confusion: (1)
"Innocent blood will not be shed, but the blood of rioters, pogrom-heroes and murderers will be shed, for it is defiled. And so is the blood of each Briton, ruling beyond the frontiers of his country. The British blood-sucker, to be a soldier, a constable, a clerk, so long as he obeys orders to exploit and murder, he is indicted. He is here to guard the imperialist rule and prevent the rescue of the Jews. For this his blood will be shed.
It is unavoidable that in this war innocent blood will be shed as well, but there has never been a war or revolution 'with all comforts," without privations, without destruction, without bloodshed. Let those among us who are afraid of bloodshed and destruction say openly that they surrender to a New Munich, to each White Paper, which leads to a ghetto and ultimately to new gas-chambers a la Auschwitz. They sit in their homes waiting for the day of the great slaughter which Bevin and his partner Kaukji are preparing for us, waiting for Jewish youth to be mobilized by the Anglo-Saxons in their war against the Soviet Union. They cry over defiled British blood, but remain silent over the blood of innocent refugees. The blood of the strong one must be protected, the blood of the weak one may be shed. Why don't they try to force the British to stop bloodshed, why do they force us?
Why are you shouting from your walls (Hahoma Wall) about innocent Jewish blood being shed by the "terrorists," while not admitting the murder of 230 innocent refugees of the "Patria"? How dare you accuse us of murder while you killed tenfold as many Jews on a single occasion? Reply!
Jewish blood is sacred and pure. The blood of Britons suppressing foreign countries is defiled. Therefore it will be shed to prevent innocent blood from being shed."
It does seem to be fanatical and violent, and the British were lawful governors operating under United Nations authority in an agreement the Zionists were actually a signatory and party too. Simply put the British weren’t firing rockets at the Zionists but simply trying to get them to honor the Mandate agreements of accepting that 52% of the land was to be awarded to the Arabs and 48% to the Zionists and Jews, with Jerusalem to remain an open and free city overseen by the Holy See in Rome in perpetuity.
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 10:28 PM by Hellmutt
Dubai has cancelled all forms of New Year celebrations, as a token of solidarity with the Palestinian people.
Dubai Cancels New Year Celebrations
In his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai, Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, has ordered the cancellation of all forms of celebrations marking the New Year in Dubai emirate.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Dubai Cancels New Year Celebrations
In his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai, Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, has ordered the cancellation of all forms of celebrations marking the New Year in Dubai emirate.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
reply posted on 30-12-2008 @ 10:47 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by princeofpeace
One of the things I love most about ATS is the ability to learn through a lot of the shared postings of ideas, oppionions, theories, and referenced links even more about history, the world we live in, people and human nature.
Arguably this particular subject is the preeminent touchstone of so much of what is driving world politics and in many ways is the embodiment of the cultural divide of East versus West that propels a lot of the world's conflicts.
Ultimately I think its in both Eastern culture and philosphy's interest and Western philosophiies and culture to open mindedly learn enough about each others to find some medium ground where the billions of people involved can live in peace.
I don't always believe U.S. Policy is in tune with the actual will or morality of the actual citizens it purports to represent and I don't believe that Israeli policy, or Hamas policy is any different.
I have a lot of great friends and associates who are Christans, Jews, Muslims, Hindu and even New Age metaphysical types.
I hope I am not sounding so one sided as to be stereo typing any group of people as greater, better or more correct than the other. I am simply advocating a deeper look at the side of events that often gets overlooked as to the victor goes the spoils and the looser often gets little in the way of acknowledgement.
Might does not always make right though. The Arabs have committed some spectacular blunders especially early on when they couldn't envision but seemed to fear that that things could eventually end up along these lines.
The least effective form of domination is through intimidation because the submission will only be as long lived as the perception of weakness of the subjucated or their ability to live under the yoke of tyranny.
It's far better to inspire one to follow than to cower one into it. That usually requires a degree of humbleness that is evidently lacking all the way around.
If the mighty can't see their shortcommings and tactical and intellectual errors, it's not likely the weak shall either.
I suppose it boils down to whether people want peace or war.
I spend a lot of hours reading what others post, studying the reference material they provide and then using it as a basis for more research.
I learn a lot through these forums. I appreciate that opportunity very much.
I would say that 99.9% of the folks posting on this thread (myself included) need a serious history lesson. No one on here is qualified to be posting and acting like they are the end all be all and know the complete history of what has transpired in the ME and beyond regarding Arabs, Jews, Muslims and Christians.
One of the things I love most about ATS is the ability to learn through a lot of the shared postings of ideas, oppionions, theories, and referenced links even more about history, the world we live in, people and human nature.
Arguably this particular subject is the preeminent touchstone of so much of what is driving world politics and in many ways is the embodiment of the cultural divide of East versus West that propels a lot of the world's conflicts.
Ultimately I think its in both Eastern culture and philosphy's interest and Western philosophiies and culture to open mindedly learn enough about each others to find some medium ground where the billions of people involved can live in peace.
I don't always believe U.S. Policy is in tune with the actual will or morality of the actual citizens it purports to represent and I don't believe that Israeli policy, or Hamas policy is any different.
I have a lot of great friends and associates who are Christans, Jews, Muslims, Hindu and even New Age metaphysical types.
I hope I am not sounding so one sided as to be stereo typing any group of people as greater, better or more correct than the other. I am simply advocating a deeper look at the side of events that often gets overlooked as to the victor goes the spoils and the looser often gets little in the way of acknowledgement.
Might does not always make right though. The Arabs have committed some spectacular blunders especially early on when they couldn't envision but seemed to fear that that things could eventually end up along these lines.
The least effective form of domination is through intimidation because the submission will only be as long lived as the perception of weakness of the subjucated or their ability to live under the yoke of tyranny.
It's far better to inspire one to follow than to cower one into it. That usually requires a degree of humbleness that is evidently lacking all the way around.
If the mighty can't see their shortcommings and tactical and intellectual errors, it's not likely the weak shall either.
I suppose it boils down to whether people want peace or war.
I spend a lot of hours reading what others post, studying the reference material they provide and then using it as a basis for more research.
I learn a lot through these forums. I appreciate that opportunity very much.
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:03 AM by poet1b
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Wow, Proto, your best post by far. I honestly didn't think you had it in you. No doubt both sides could do better.
Wow, Proto, your best post by far. I honestly didn't think you had it in you. No doubt both sides could do better.
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:13 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by neformore
Jenin didn't happen. They say it was a massacre. Last time I checked it wasn't a massacre, so the Jenin Massacre didn't happen. Yes there was some action, and some people died, but it wasn't a massacre.
Jenin didn't happen. They say it was a massacre. Last time I checked it wasn't a massacre, so the Jenin Massacre didn't happen. Yes there was some action, and some people died, but it wasn't a massacre.
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:21 AM by poet1b
reply to post by pepsi78
Yes, well, we all act like animals now and then, but there are those things we should not due, and randomly firing misile into civilians populations with no military activity are not one of them.
The Palestinians are getting back what they have been giving and then some, as they should be getting for supporting the terrorist policies of Hamas.
Certainly Israel could do more to make things right, but the Palestinians need to make an effort as well, and they could start simply by recognizing Israel.
The Palestinians wanted to push the Israelis into the sea originally, so it is very hard to have sympathy for them now, especially when they ended this last truce by firing misiles into Israel.
Who has the Muslims conquerred or attempted to conquer, or conquered at one time? You can't be serious, you really don't know this? I can't believe how many people make this claim of ignorance.
Syria, Jordan, Jerusalem, Persia, India, Nothern Africa, Spain, Serbia, and attempted to conquer Europe, BEFORE Europe started fighting back. Muslims are still trying to take even more land from India, and are busy conquering Africa.
Do you know why the language that it is believed was spoken by Christ is going extinct? Because when Arabs conquerred that area, they made it illegal to speak the native tongue of Aramic.
What language do the so called Palestinians speak? Arabic.
Yes, well, we all act like animals now and then, but there are those things we should not due, and randomly firing misile into civilians populations with no military activity are not one of them.
The Palestinians are getting back what they have been giving and then some, as they should be getting for supporting the terrorist policies of Hamas.
Certainly Israel could do more to make things right, but the Palestinians need to make an effort as well, and they could start simply by recognizing Israel.
The Palestinians wanted to push the Israelis into the sea originally, so it is very hard to have sympathy for them now, especially when they ended this last truce by firing misiles into Israel.
Who has the Muslims conquerred or attempted to conquer, or conquered at one time? You can't be serious, you really don't know this? I can't believe how many people make this claim of ignorance.
Syria, Jordan, Jerusalem, Persia, India, Nothern Africa, Spain, Serbia, and attempted to conquer Europe, BEFORE Europe started fighting back. Muslims are still trying to take even more land from India, and are busy conquering Africa.
Do you know why the language that it is believed was spoken by Christ is going extinct? Because when Arabs conquerred that area, they made it illegal to speak the native tongue of Aramic.
What language do the so called Palestinians speak? Arabic.
Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:31 AM by Majorion
reply to post by poet1b
Lest I remind of you of the Christian crusades?
I follow the faith, do I strike you as a terrorist my friend?
I haven't called for the death of Israel, but it seems YOU could go on forever about bringing death to the Muslims and locking them in a cage like animals.
When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest,
Lest I remind of you of the Christian crusades?
and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing
I follow the faith, do I strike you as a terrorist my friend?
You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position
I haven't called for the death of Israel, but it seems YOU could go on forever about bringing death to the Muslims and locking them in a cage like animals.
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:45 AM by Majorion
reply to post by centurion1211
So Christians perceived Jerusalem as the Holy Land too? .. It seems many religions share the same mindset and beliefs, yet Islam is the one solely about war and conquest?
BTW, I noticed you wrote "muslims" with a small letter at the beginning but "Christians" starts with capital letter? Perhaps a hint of your true colors?
response to muslims conquering what was then perceived by Christians of that time as the Holy Land.
So Christians perceived Jerusalem as the Holy Land too? .. It seems many religions share the same mindset and beliefs, yet Islam is the one solely about war and conquest?
BTW, I noticed you wrote "muslims" with a small letter at the beginning but "Christians" starts with capital letter? Perhaps a hint of your true colors?
reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 12:49 AM by centurion1211
reply to post by Majorion
Yes, way before there were any such thing as muslims, Christians considered that area as the Holy Land.
Read my updated post.
And read into it whatever you want to. Your choice entirely ...
[edit on 12/31/2008 by centurion1211]
Yes, way before there were any such thing as muslims, Christians considered that area as the Holy Land.
Read my updated post.
And read into it whatever you want to. Your choice entirely ...
[edit on 12/31/2008 by centurion1211]
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